Caledonia problem didnt arise overnight

[gc1765]

Let me just clear up a few falsehoods, misconceptions and contradictions:

When I drive through the reserve in the interior I see new houses, satelite dishes outside almost all of them and $40,000.00 pick up trucks, SUVs and RVs. I see most natives wearing all the brand name clothing. I see them pushing their shopping carts heaped up with steaks and junk food, cases of soft drinks.

Which reserve are you speaking of? I've been through reserves in northern B.C., northern Ontario and Vancouver Island, and unfortunately I see mostly poverty. I would love to see Natives in decent housing, with vehicules and food in their shopping carts. However, in many parts of Canada that's simply not the case.

The natives receive free housing, no interest mortgages if they live off the reserve, free post secondary education, free medical and dental and no questions asked welfare assistance. They dont pay taxes.

If you have a problem with Natives receiving free education, health care etc., why don't you take it up with the governments that signed the treaties guaranteeing these things? And Natives DO pay taxes off-reserve, so don't claim that Natives don't pay taxes, that is ignorant and false.

In BC very few natives take advantage of the free post secondary education. Yet seats in every college and university are reserved for native students and sit empty while non-native students cant get into the classes because "they are full".

Another lie, at least at U.B.C. (can't speak for other universities). Registration for classes is first come first served, based on marks. I know Natives who could not get into classes because they were full.

The Saskatchewan Federated Indian College is crammed to the roof with natives wanting and obtaining post secondary education. Every one of the graduating class of 2002 had a job before they graduated .. so DONT tell me natives DONT have equal opportunity and DONT fit into Canadian society, and cant get jobs.

Funny, earlier in your post you said that "very few Natives take advantage of the free post secondary education...", yet now you are saying this college is crammed with Natives wanting to obtain post secondary education. Don't you see the contradiction there?

So "get over it", what happened a hundred years ago or more has NOT impacted your own lives, other than the never ending pity party you indulge in.

The last residential school closed in 1996, and many were running less than one generation ago. Many of these students were so badly abused that they could not be good parents to their children, who grew up without strong role models thanks to the residential schools. Without role models, these children are bound to have "problems", and the cycle continues. Since many of these things happened only 1 or 2 generations ago, the cycle has not been broken, though it is starting to be broken and with any luck will be soon.

A native male I know told me he was approached by a lawyer and told he could get $20,000.00 if he would go to court and claim he was put into and abused in a Residentail School. This man has never seen a residental school. For one thing he is much too young.

Yes, obviously it is this young Native male's fault that he was approached by a lawyer. This just shows that the lawyer is trying to exploit the Native, not the other way around. So isn't the lawyer to blame? Was the lawyer Native? You didn't mention the race of the lawyer, but given your earlier comments "...and have no desire to work or contribute to a society and a country who's back they are, for the majority, riding on..." I'm guessing you think Natives are too lazy to become lawyers.

[NativeCharm]

Thanks for picking up the ball on that one GC, sometimes the ignorance here gets too overwhelming. Hopefully some of these people will actually learn something instead of using this public forum as a breeding ground for hostility and racism.

[Temagami Scourge]

What fools those Caledonians are. Some of the Six Nations people brought in equipment to clear topsoil to start an arcaheological dig at Douglas Creek. Six Nations people have long maintained that there were people buried on the site, so they have a team of archaeologists checking the area closest to the bypass.

The next thing you know, caledonians are screaming to the media that the Natives are building bunkers.

What fools. If they spent less time having sex with their family members, then they'd probably wouldn't be so stupid.

Unfortunately, the town is becoming an embarrassing laughingstock to the rest of Canada, however, i'm of the opinion that we are seeing a virulent form of racism that exists in many occidentals in this country. I see it here often enough, and what makes it worse is that people like Betsy are ready to agree with the occidentals without a hint of history.

The funniest bit is that some of our occidental peers here whine about how Natives should "obey the law", and then they turn around and refuse to accept Canadian law when it is applied to Aboriginal people, like in the treaties and other constitutionally-recognized Canadian law.

However, too many people are unknowledgeable with Canadian law, and it always seems to be occidental people!?

anyway, I'm still grateful to Enskat for posting those videos of Caledonian thugs throwing rocks and drinking liquor. I'm equally proud of the Six Nation's folks who hold their tongues and whose steely reslove ensures that no more fighting occurs, even though the racist filth are screaming racial epithets at the protestors.

I do feel badly for those good people who are embarrassed by the Caledonian's activities. I'm also proud of one of my people who lives in Caledonia, and who flies his Confederacy flag from the pine tree in his front yard. The guy has his occidental neighbours threatening him all the time, but he stands his ground by himself...and like the cowards those Caledonians are, they do nothing unless they are in a group. See them one-on-one, like in Brantford, and they run away.

typical.

I'm heading down tomorrow to drop off donated food at the protest site. I'd like to see one of those Caledonians try to get tough with me, because they'd be bitch-slapped before they could say "buy my sister". I'm glad that there are actually people here who go down to the protest and stand up to be counted.

[Temagami Scourge]

GC, NC, Enskat:

I just read Kindred's post and had a good laugh. I'm certain that he (or she) is another one of those "tough" people -like Montgomery Burns- that can threaten real good in front of a keyboard.

You sure set him straight GC! A well-written and concise response. In fact, you gave him a written bitch-slap, which is a rare feat indeed on this site.

Mac

[Temagami Scourge]

Hey guys...here is a good Caledonian joke (told to me by a Caledonian, nonetheless!)

This Caledonian is getting married, so on his wedding night, his father calls him aside and says: "Son, here are the keys to the house on the back forty. consider that your wedding gift from me and Ma."

The groom replies: "Aw Dad...what a great gift!"

The father winks at him and says "Well son, you enjoy this, your wedding night". The father says good night to his boy and his new daughter-in-law, and goes upstairs to bed with his wife.

an hour later, the father hears someone come thumping into his house, so he grabs his shotgun and goes downstairs to see who's there. He meets his son in the kitchen. His son is sitting at the kitchen table, all covered in blood. The father is alarmed and blurts our "Son...son...what happened? Where's your bride?"

The son replies "Well Daddy...I shot her", "you shot her?" repliese the father. "Yes daddy, I shot her!". "but why'd you shoot her son? the father asks. "Well daddy...she was a virgin!" the son says. "A virgin!" the father replies.

"Yes Daddy, a virgin. I figured out that if she wasn't good enough for her own family, then she ain't good enough for ours!"

[gc1765]

GC, NC, Enskat:

I just read Kindred's post and had a good laugh. I'm certain that he (or she) is another one of those "tough" people -like Montgomery Burns- that can threaten real good in front of a keyboard.

You sure set him straight GC! A well-written and concise response. In fact, you gave him a written bitch-slap, which is a rare feat indeed on this site.

Mac

Thanks TS.

[NativeCharm]

Ditto on the thanks

[Kindred]

Funny, earlier in your post you said that "very few Natives take advantage of the free post secondary education...", yet now you are saying this college is crammed with Natives wanting to obtain post secondary education. Don't you see the contradiction there?

I said natives in BC dont take advantage of free education the way the natives in Saskatchewan do. There is a remarkable difference in attitudes between provinces and bands.

The reserves I am talking about with new homes, etc are in the interior of BC. I have been on reserves in the north and yes the housing can be bad but I have to ask "who put the holes in the walls and got rid of the doors and windows?" I dont think the Government built those houses without doors, windows and holes in the walls etc .

I just feel we should have society where people are all treated equally. No privilige based on race, gender, sexual orientation or whatever.

Financial aid should be reserved for those who cannot work because of disabilities and illness, not for those who choose not to, and then make lives miserable for those who do.

One law for everyone. People who break that law are dealt with equally under the law. No exceptions, no priviliged class who is immune to prosecution.

The lawyer who approached this native man was also a native. If the man in question was interested in scamming the Govt he wouldnt have told me about it. He was disgusted, angry, felt it gave people like him a bad name. And you know, he's right, it does, unfortunately.

By the way the wording of the Treaty regarding "Medical Care" says that each band will receive a fully equipped medicine bag, our fore fathers didnt know about the Medical Care system we have today ... have YOU read the treaties?

Either the natives signed the treaties or they didnt, cant have it both ways ..

If the natives get to make land claims based on the fact that they "were here first", what do the Norwegians get to claim, seeing as they "were here second". Doesnt leave much for the late comers does it?

[Kindred]

Anthropological research has shown that in the funeral rites of the Plains cultures a corpse was wrapped in hide and laid on a platform raised on poles or placed in a tree, exposed to the elements.

In the Thompson River Valley the dead were put in caves dug into clay banks in the semi arid region, placed in a sitting postion facing the rising sun in the East. The hot arid climate mummified the remains. There is also evidence of cremation of the dead.

I believe burial mounds were restricted to the Maritmes, southern Ontario/Ohio Border and the Dakotas, a middle Missouri River practise and not part of the Plains culture. The exception being only two burial "pits" discovered, one in Southern Saskatchewan and one in Southern Alberta.

It is unlikely that there are a lot of native burial sites that should impede development in any areas outside the ones mentioned.

As a point of interest, at one time the Kamloops Museum contained the mummified remains of an aboriginal person, something I thought was abhorent, and immoral, no respect at all, it was removed and I assume give proper burial a long time ago.

[Temagami Scourge]

I said natives in BC dont take advantage of free education the way the natives in Saskatchewan do. There is a remarkable difference in attitudes between provinces and bands.

Oh give us a break kindred...now bands are different across Canada, but the same, but different....blah, blah, blah.

Unfortunately for you, that point has been made time and again by the Native posters here because some of our occidental peers try topaint us with the same brush. Well look at it this way...I'm from Ontario, and I already know that each provinces' outlook is different, whether you're native or not. The bottom line is that you ride my coatails on my taxes, and you have the unmitigated gall to maintain that all Natives are

good-for-nothing welfare bums.

Look who's talking, Mr. Have not.

"

The reserves I am talking about with new homes, etc are in the interior of BC. I have been on reserves in the north and yes the housing can be bad but I have to ask "who put the holes in the walls and got rid of the doors and windows?" I dont think the Government built those houses without doors, windows and holes in the walls etc

. "

Yeah right....Have you seen some caucasian people's homes in Cochrane, or Geraldton, or Hearst? They sound just like the Indian homes you describe. Why not save this for the next klan rally...they feed into these stereotypes, but not us...we know better.

"

I just feel we should have society where people are all treated equally. No privilige based on race, gender, sexual orientation or whatever

. "

Oh...let's all be equal...let's all be the same...Give me a friggin' break buddy. You can't even refer to us as Canadians, so how truly equal are we? You trying to tell me that we are equal is like challenging me to a 100 yard dash, with you getting a 95 yard headstart...yeah...real "equal" now that the Crown has most of us resigned to poverty because of your friggin' laws. Remember, the Indian Act applies to me, not you.

Financial aid should be reserved for those who cannot work because of disabilities and illness, not for those who choose not to, and then make lives miserable for those who do

.

Yeah right!!!! Rape generation after generation of native kids and turn them into whores or alcoholics, and then blame them....why would you do that Kindred? Remember, you leave me to deal with the detritus from residential school, not you, so quit your whining about working so hard....do you think none of us do? how can you...natives are different from province to province, but they are the same, but different, but the same....

One law for everyone. People who break that law are dealt with equally under the law. No exceptions, no priviliged class who is immune to prosecution

.

Yeah, well who's law is it going to be...yours or mine? So far, yours has let people like Karla homolka go free, and let murderers off after a year. Why not try Native law...it can't be worse than yours.

The lawyer who approached this native man was also a native. If the man in question was interested in scamming the Govt he wouldnt have told me about it. He was disgusted, angry, felt it gave people like him a bad name. And you know, he's right, it does, unfortunately.

Oh great...more of the "Well, I know an Indian" crap. Well guess what, I know white people. So what.

By the way the wording of the Treaty regarding "Medical Care" says that each band will receive a fully equipped medicine bag, our fore fathers didnt know about the Medical Care system we have today ... have YOU read the treaties?

Well, after reading what you've written so far, I can tell that you've either read the Coles notes treaty version, or a trained monkey read the treaties to you in ASL.

Come back once you have a more thorough grasp of Canadian law and history and we'll talk more.

Either the natives signed the treaties or they didnt, cant have it both ways ..

well what do you think? Did reserves just "pop-up"? What kind of stupid comment is that?

If the natives get to make land claims based on the fact that they "were here first", what do the Norwegians get to claim, seeing as they "were here second". Doesnt leave much for the late comers does it?

They get sweet jack nothing. Unlike every other ethnic group in Canada, no one has a legal relationship defined by Canadian law like native people do...not Norwegians, Scots, Jamaicans or Afghans. Once the government signs a legal agreement recognizing them and spelling out their rights, then they can claim anything they want.

That , my boy, is how the law operates in this land.

now just thank me and my taxes for your livelihood and upkeep.

[Kindred]

So if you are doing so well and everyone is riding on your coat tails then whats your bitch? I work for everything I have, I never stood around whining and crying that the Government owes me a free ride. Where is that "Native Pride" we hear so much about?

If you are suggesting I am taking a free ride on the tax payers or receiving any kind of Government Assistance you are jumping to some pretty stupid assumptions. Your post is so irrational and garbled its hard to understand.

Maybe if you just dropped all the personal insults and stupid comments based on ... nothing .. it would make more sense ?

As a friend of mine once explained it to me "you have to understand that Natives arent capable of looking after themselves so we have to look after them -". Is that what you want the world to believe? I dont believe it, I know some pretty capable indians. Len Marchand was one.

I stated my case, I am tired of living in an arpatheid society where one class, based on race, is priviliged. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it. I am tired of my tax dollars supporting able bodied people who choose not to work.

As one poster said 10 billion dollars a year for aboriginal affairs and programs - thats a helluva drain on tax payers. On a per capita basis its horrendous.

I did not post personal insults to you though I am tempted. Where's the intellectual content in your post?

The difference between white people living in shacks with broken windows is they dont expect the Government to build a new house for them, if they want a new house they have to go to work and make the money to buy one. They dont expect the tax payers to buy one for them.

How many natives were in residentail schools in relation to those who are living on assistance and demanding more and more?

If they signed the Treaties they can now claim they didnt and want their land back ...

Natives didnt spring from the dirt in Canda, they migrated here just as everyone else did.

If you want to be called Canadian then act like one ...

[Riverwind]

That , my boy, is how the law operates in this land.

For now.

[betsy]

Until the matter is settled, like it or not, the simple fact is as it is.

Some may have been given special PRIVILEGES (or certain rights that may have been bestowed), but until the court...or whoever it is or what body it is that decides how this dispute is going to end...no wishful thinking or spin, nor aggressive posturing and childish tantrums claiming MINE! will change the present or current rightful scenario.

ALL CANADIANS have all the EQUAL rights to be in Canada, partaking of all rights and privileges granted to all citizens, and EQUALLY obligated to uphold and be governed by the laws and government of this country.

Canada belongs to ALL CANADIANS .........of the past, present and the future.

[PocketRocket]

When the protest began at Douglas Creek, it was contained to the site only.

The barricades went up in response to the Police raid, as an effort to protect themsleves.

Some residents of Caledonia were opposed even at the onset of the protest, pre-barricade.

Making peoples lives miserable was never the purpose of the protest at any point - raising awareness about the Land Claim issue was, and still is paramount.

The Douglass Creek lands have been reclaimed, being officially recognised as Six Nations Territory. Despite that fact, the Premier is asking for the protesters to leave what is officially recognised by the government as their own territory. The site is only a small part of the land claim, but may become a focal point for all land claims coast to coast. The protest continues and i expect simular protests to take place wherever land claims are being ignored by the government.

Thanks for the reply. I was not aware that there was an earlier protest on-site only.

So, in that regard at the very least, I guess you are right.

THAT protest didn't call much attention to the matter.

The current protest is certainly getting THAT job done.

However, I would like to know, for my own education only, what exactly happened at the on-site protest, specifically the police raids etc.

Perhaps you would do me the favour of pointint me (via link perhaps) to somewhere that I may find more information on the matter.

Thanks in advance.

[PocketRocket]

TEMAGAMI: I have read many of your posts, though I have not responded to any as of yet. The reason for this is simple, I have hesitated until now to get involved in a thread based on a topic I know little about. My involvement now has come more in the form of suggestions and requests for further information so I may be better educated on the matter at hand.

You have displayed an admirable ability to convey you thoughts and feelings in an educated manner, moreso than many of the long-time users on this board, and far better than the average internet chatroom denizen.

Even though some of your posts have been a bit antagonistic, that type of post has largely been in direct response to similarly antagonistic posts from others who oppose your viewpoint.

However, posts such as the following......

I just read Kindred's post and had a good laugh. I'm certain that he (or she) is another one of those "tough" people -like Montgomery Burns- that can threaten real good in front of a keyboard.

.........which came immediately after this........

I'm heading down tomorrow to drop off donated food at the protest site. I'd like to see one of those Caledonians try to get tough with me, because they'd be bitch-slapped before they could say "buy my sister". I'm glad that there are actually people here who go down to the protest and stand up to be counted.

........do not paint you in a particularly great light.

In fact, are you not doing exactly the thing you accuse MONTY BURNS of doing, being tough in front of a keyboard???

Posts like this do little to advance your case, and simply take away from you credibility.

Just an observation.

I disapprove of many of the posts I've seen from those who oppose your case here, not because of the content, but because of the approach.

In forum situations, fighting fire with fire often simply makes for a larger fire, and consequent smoke which serves only to cloud the issue at hand.

Please do not take offense that I chose your posts to address in this manner. I did so NOT because of any allegiance, but simply because the two posts I quoted stood together and were, to me, self contradictory. Not to mention the fact that this is simply what I happened to be reading this morning and so what I happened to address.

To MONTY, KINDRED et al, ANY message can be put across in a non-antagonistic manner, if we simply take the time to consider the words we choose, and in so doing, the message is often better received and more seriously considered.

We would all do well to remember this

[Temagami Scourge]

Pocket:

Monty and Kindred are thousands of miles away and threatening Natives in general. Monty wanted to shoot any Native in Regina. I'm not going out of my way looking for "any" white to beat on solely because they are "white", like the other two who are willing to threaten any Indian. I'm running a food donation into Douglas creek, and if someone tries come on to me while I'm doing that, then I am more than willing to defend myself at their peril.

That is the difference. I'm not out hunting white people because of skin color, as the others have expressed a willingness to do to Natives in general, but defending myself in the worst case scenario, which I'm going to do my best to avoid.

However, you make a good point in that many non-Natives are getting a misrepresentation of what is occuring at Caledonia. Having been there, I can say that the Natives have maintained their composure to a far greater degree than the Caledonains. The Caledonians have proven themselves provocative, thuggish drunks, and yet the mainstream media portrays matters exactly opposite. It goes back to my point that the Six Nations people are readying an archaeological dig, while their occidental "neighbours" are crying that the Natives are building bunkers!

clearly, the media is influencing you into believeing that the Caledonians are hard done by, when the reality is that they are the ones who've done all the shooting, the majority of the rock-throwing, and only now are we finding out that no one definitvely knows who drove a car into the transformer, although the Natives took the blame.

[Kindred]

I must say I object to people "quoting" comments I never made - there have been several such "quotes" from Temagami Scourge. The other posters read his quotes and respond to them - perhaps if posts were being read in their entirity and then addressed it would be a more equitable discourse.

I have somehow become someone living on Govt assistance, then complaining about native assistance, someone who claimed there are no natives taking advantage of post secondard education, someone who said I hate all natives based on the colour of their skin and advocate shooting all of them - and I dont know what else ... frankly the posts tend to be hard to follow when they become an insulting rant ...all things posted by Temagami Scourge, and things he claims I have said.

In fact what I have said is I am fed up with living in an arpatheird society and having people disrupt and destroy others lives, that natives in Caledonia dont have their livelihood threatened, they havent suffered huge economical impacts and disruption to their lives. As others have said THIS IS THE ISSUE.

Stop taking your frustrations out on innocent people. You are losing support and sympathy when you promise "mayhem" in Canada, something you, Temagami Scourge, did say you support - the people's who's lives your detroy will NOT be lobbying their pols to settle these claims, in fact just the opposite.

I also said you are creating and promoting racism and this agenda will escelate into a race war if it isnt stopped. Pretty simple things to understand really.

The natives wont back down and neither will the non-natives, the difference is we arent going into your homes and reserves and creating mayhem and threatening your safety and day to day lives.

We arent the people passing the laws and hostage taking has never been a productive avenue to get a point across.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Actually Riv-ahhh - They have been recliamed - they are being held " in trust " by the provincial government.

I beleive the reason for this is to avoid complicating the issue further than it already is. Instead of seperate agreements, the lands will stay in limbo until such time as a solution is negotiated and a single document can de drafted.

Granted, given the way our federal governemt has handled land claims, this may take some time as they are prone to dragging their heels. But hopefully the provincial governeent will be able to move swiftly, so i will give them the benefit of the doubt.

The Douglass Creek lands have been reclaimed, being officially recognised as Six Nations Territory.

The lands are not being handed over - they may never be handed over. The province just bought out the developer because it was easier than risking a violent confrontation to end the blockade.

[betsy]

We arent the people passing the laws and hostage taking has never been a productive avenue to get a point across.

Exactly.

And whether there was a treaty ignored or not, or whether non-natives understood the root of the land claim disputes or not....the issue is about the unlawful disruption of Caledonia and its residents.

It is not being racist to take the sides and speak out for those who are being victimized. It is this sense of justice and fairness that's making it so hard for me to have any sympathy or empathy for the protesters (even though I do know that the natives had had some rough times in history).

That is why as an observer and as an outsider, I was giving a feedback in saying "this is not helping your cause." It's unfortunate that some had misunderstood (whether deliberately or stupidly), my previous post.

Saying that "you're looking like the bad guys" is NOT the same as saying "You are the bad guys."

Trying to paint an angry Caledonia as "racist" does not hold much water. Of course they'll be angry! Of course they'll resist! Can anyone blame them now if they had indeed become racist?

This crisis is going on for too long now...and without any lawful intervention, the consequences played out as would be expected when there is no law.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Betsy - you are saying there is no excuse for disrupting the lives of the Caledonians, then proceed to condone their acts of racism because its understandable or it is a logical progression to commit these acts.

" acts " ...more accurately described as CRIMES.

And to say Native people have a had a " hard time " is the greatest understatement ive yet to read on this forum. Native people have been nearly silent for more than 200 years while suffering the various abuses put upon them. They suffer for that long and only until recently have they chose to raise their voices, and you choose to cry for sympathy for a group that has suffered so greatly.... having to drive around the block for a few months. Only those that are truly vapid cannot realise which group has been wronged here.

[Kindred]

Let me see if I have this straight, if I am a white person and a white person commits a crime against me and I resist thats ok. If I am white person and a native person or whatever commits a crime against me and I resist thats racism?

Thats a pretty racist comment in itself - if white people are being victimized they should suck it up and shut up because they deserve it because they are white?

Now who's the racist?

If I were you I wouldnt try to speak for all native people, I mentioned Len Marchand as an example. In Northern Alberta when we were living there the ratio of white to native in the lumber mill and in supervisory positions was pretty much 50/50. Everywhere I have worked there have also been native employees and they are not discriminated against by co-workers, many are promoted to supervisory and management positions. Many hosptials I have been in have a large percentage of native nurses.

That have's and have-nots are like any other race. Those who choose to get an education, get a job, be independent and those who dont. It isnt exclusive to natives, or any other race.

Its evident by your posts that do hate all white people and are a racist. Very evident. You have called white people lazy drunks, and I dont know what else - throughout - and made more than a few slurs against white people. Werent you the one who said "they arent going to buy my sister?" yah as if ......

FYI some natives are speaking out against the claims made by formers students of residential schools, one is Rev. Arthur Anderson who attended the school in Saskatchewan, as a student, a shcool against which many claims of sexual and physical abuse have been made.

[betsy]

Betsy - you are saying there is no excuse for disrupting the lives of the Caledonians, then proceed to condone their acts of racism because its understandable or it is a logical progression to commit these acts.

" acts " ...more accurately described as CRIMES.

IF they had INDEED become racist.

What are their acts of racism? Calling the protesters names?

If I am being victimized....would I put political correctness above all else? Would I even have the calm to consider it for a moment. I'm only human. If a black is hurting me, you bet I would be swearing and calling him a nigger! Am I a racist then?

If they did some criminal acts, remember that you are all breaking the law.

And since there are no law enforcers intervening....yes, every untoward incidents (from both sides) is a logical progression, especially if alcohol or drug is involved. Things will only escalate....and somebody will really get hurt.

[Riverwind]

Betsy - you are saying there is no excuse for disrupting the lives of the Caledonians, then proceed to condone their acts of racism because its understandable or it is a logical progression to commit these acts.

What you are talking about is a vicious circle. One illegal act leads to another. One act of racism leads to another. It never will stop unless you go back to the original problem: the concept that native Canadians have special rights because of their DNA. The vicious circle of racism will never end until that concept is thrown into the dust bin of history along with slavery and apartheid.

[betsy]

And to say Native people have a had a " hard time " is the greatest understatement ive yet to read on this forum. Native people have been nearly silent for more than 200 years while suffering the various abuses put upon them. They suffer for that long and only until recently have they chose to raise their voices, and you choose to cry for sympathy for a group that has suffered so greatly.... having to drive around the block for a few months. Only those that are truly vapid cannot realise which group has been wronged here.

Well, I meant what I said about Natives have had a rough time throughout history. I just mean that. Rough time. Like the Jews have had a rough time throughout history too!

If that is an understatement, what word is more appropriate then? Awful time?

I am not trying to make any less of the suffering you feel. You have the right to raise your voices...to be heard if you feel that you have been grievously wronged.

But what you don't have, is the right to inflict suffering to others.

Perhaps I am vapid....but vapid or not, I still believe that using an innocent as a whipping post just to get the attention of everyone, is not right.

Why don't the elders take this matter to Parliament Hill?

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Betsy - you keep using terms like " terrorists" and " inflict suffering " to dramatize the view youve painted for yourself of whats going on at the site. Using those words makes me feel like your trying to describe the situation like people are dying and being injured in Caledonia - Because people are occupying a peice of land? Blocking a road forcing people to drive around? im not thrilled with the racist actions of those groups and what theyre trying to do there, even with all their violent tendencies directed towards Native people I couldnt use those terms to describe them. But to clarify, the barricades are all down - people are staying on the site - so explain to me how they are doing anything to the town? or as you so colourfully put it " using an innocent as a whipping post "

On the matter of the Elders taking the matter to parliament - Have you been reading any of the posts on the forum? Im about to come full circle for you once again - Six Nations people have been trying for YEARS to have a government ear listen to them, the government has always side stepped the issue because they had no pressure to listen - the matter could be swept away because the public had no idea what was going on.

Now people are listening, and learning.... even with efforts to villify the protesters, most people see through it.

I am not trying to lessen the suffering you feel. You have the right to raise your voices...to be heard.

But what you don't have, is the right to inflict suffering to others.

Perhaps I am vapid....but vapid or not, I still believe that using an innocent as a whipping post just to get the attention of everyone, is not right.

Why don't the elders take this matter to Parliament Hill?