Tory Anti-Crime Measures

[lost&outofcontrol]

All governments consider costs in policy terms, or rather, the reverse. We have extremely lax parole because it saves money. There is no other reason.

Parole is not meant to save money. For a prisoner to be released early he first has to go through the parole board and then if he wins his conditional release, he is supervised until then end of his sentence. If we release him at the end of his sentence, we have no control over him, no supervision.

[scribblet]

Don't forget that after all the shootings in Toronto he Liberals and NDP both promised stronger mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. (guess that was just for getting votes, they never intended to do anything) Even though CPC have watered down their crime bills and made compromises in response to the NDP/liberal whining, it hasn't stopped that. Too bad they let politics get in the way of reform..

I do give credit to Dalton McGuinty and his AG who have both come out in support of the bill

[margrace]

Yep made a lot of difference in Windsor yesterday didn't it, those killers really thought about an extended sentence didn't they?

Harsh laws rarely impact spur-of-the-moment crimes. However, suppose there was a rigid, well-known law in place that anyone found carrying an illegal firearm was going to go to jail for 5 years - IMMEDIATELY - with no parole and no negotiation, even on a first offence. Would that punk still have had a gun in his pocket? Suppose that there were special undercover police squads making the rounds of all the local bars and watering holes trying to buy guns illegally, and the sellers knew that if they were caught they'd got to jail for five years IMMEDIATELY - with no parole even on a first offence (10 on the second). Would they have been so quick to sell a firearm cheaply to some punk? Suppose there were harsh laws against smuggling firearms into Canada, and we had better (or at least SOME) border enforcement scoping out border straddling native reservations, for example, watching for people crossing the border with firearms. Would the natives be so quick to smuggle guns across if they faced a minimum 5 year term, no parole, if caught?

And does anyone think these guys were first time offenders? Maybe if they'd gotten hammered the first time they were found commiting crimes they'd have smartened up, or still be in jail.

Great idea, but it will never happen in this country. Too many bleeding hearts.

Bleeding hearts my foot, If the gun factories were shut down and Marujuana was legalized it would free up police to look for the guys with the hard drugs. Building more jails ( schools for crime) will only cost metga bucks and do no good. The US figures prove this.

[margrace]

Don't forget that after all the shootings in Toronto he Liberals and NDP both promised stronger mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. (guess that was just for getting votes, they never intended to do anything) Even though CPC have watered down their crime bills and made compromises in response to the NDP/liberal whining, it hasn't stopped that. Too bad they let politics get in the way of reform..

I do give credit to Dalton McGuinty and his AG who have both come out in support of the bill

If we would all be honest we know that manufacturing guns creates jobs, it makes money for the rich, the same as the marijuana production, just take a look at where the majority of the stuff is grown. Building jails ( schools for crime) does absulutely no good. When we have sociopaths running our country though what do you expect.

[scribblet]

I do give credit to Dalton McGuinty and his AG who have both come out in support of the bill

If we would all be honest we know that manufacturing guns creates jobs, it makes money for the rich, the same as the marijuana production, just take a look at where the majority of the stuff is grown. Building jails ( schools for crime) does absulutely no good. When we have sociopaths running our country though what do you expect.

What sociopaths are running the country - I assume you mean Canada, please clarify ?

How many guns are manufactured in canada? It is my understanding that the majority of illegal guns are imported.

[margrace]

.

What sociopaths are running the country - I assume you mean Canada, please clarify ?

How many guns are manufactured in canada? It is my understanding that the majority of illegal guns are imported.

I don't know do you? So what is your point, I assumed they were imported.

[scribblet]

.

What sociopaths are running the country - I assume you mean Canada, please clarify ?

How many guns are manufactured in canada? It is my understanding that the majority of illegal guns are imported.

I don't know do you? So what is your point, I assumed they were imported.

What sociopaths are you referring to? ( guess I shouldn't expect an answer to potshots like that.

I assumed most were imported, so if that is the case, who is being made rich in Canada from manufacturing firearms ?

[Argus]

Ten years with an illegal firearm is too lenient? I think with the word out on that one that nobody in their right mind would be very non chalant about carrying to the bar or store in the first palce. not to mention be willing to cross a border smuggling it, not to mention trading a glock for a bag of cke etc. therefore, the item would be soon rare on the street save for those who intend on commiting an actual crime with it.

Time served should be hard time. No conjugal visits. No television. No free education. No vote. You're no longer a member of society in good standing so all the rights of one should be taken from you and not returned until your debt to society is paid.

Sorry to say but you can't do that.

Sure we can.

If you simply throw all people into the pit until their sentence is over with no priviliges, you get a bunch of people who have no reason to be managable.

How about doubling their sentence if they act up? How about solitary confinement? How about transfer to a prison up at Alert? How about bread and water alone in your cell until you behave yourself?

A very difficult situation to administrate when you consider that inmates outnumber guards four to one. Before the ratio gets to one for one, I, as a taxpayer would much rather see that the number of inmates goes down through detterence.

Private prisons are much cheaper, and promising to let them go early is not a detterant.

[Argus]

All governments consider costs in policy terms, or rather, the reverse. We have extremely lax parole because it saves money. There is no other reason.

Parole is not meant to save money.

Yeah it is. That is the only function it serves.

For a prisoner to be released early he first has to go through the parole board and then if he wins his conditional release, he is supervised until then end of his sentence.

And the parole boards release most people early in order to save money. It's very clear that the guidance from above has been "empty those cells" for quite some years. The way it works is that you earn a day off towards early release for every day you aren't actually caught doing something. So, if you cut up a guy with your shiv on Monday, and get caught with drugs on Wednesday, you still get 5 days off for good behaviour for that week.

If we release him at the end of his sentence, we have no control over him, no supervision.

Supervision is threadbare anyway, due to the number of criminals and the very, very few parole officers, and the government routinely lies about recidivism rates. Better to keep them in prison three times as long.

[KrustyKidd]

How about doubling their sentence if they act up? How about solitary confinement? How about transfer to a prison up at Alert? How about bread and water alone in your cell until you behave yourself?

Draconian punishment to instill positive beharvior is only workable in theory. People in groups, when faced with nothing but a downside just don't give a shit, and, become unmanageable, angry and, begin to bond in a directional manner to gravitate their anger to the logical focal point of their misery. The sort of answer to the problems that you propose here is what caussed many a monarch and government to be overthrown throughout history.

As I said before, to implement somthing like this would reguire an almost one for one guard/inmate ratio. Another thing that seems like a bleeding heart progressive moron would say does ring true here. That is, that in such a situation, a person going in for say, fraud, shoplifting or whatever, would most certainly come out of this 'gulag' type of situation as a very hardened and determined individual. Rehabilitated or just angry? Whatever the case, they would be miles more dangerous than before, hope they would use that power for good, and not evil.

[Wilber]

From a letter to the Vancouver Province.

"It seems the same crowd who would spend huge amounts of taxpayers' money on the gun registry because "If it saves just one life, it's worth it" now suddenly abhor spending anything to put more criminals behind bars.

I guess their new mantra against prison funding is: "If it costs even one dollar, it's not worth it.""

[lost&outofcontrol]

And the parole boards release most people early in order to save money. It's very clear that the guidance from above has been "empty those cells" for quite some years. The way it works is that you earn a day off towards early release for every day you aren't actually caught doing something. So, if you cut up a guy with your shiv on Monday, and get caught with drugs on Wednesday, you still get 5 days off for good behaviour for that week.

Are you pulling this shit out of arse? Did you even research that statement ?! You're making my wife laugh out loud, she works for Correctional Service of Canada and assures me that you are full of it. Makes me think that that majority of what you say comes from the exact same place.

Supervision is threadbare anyway, due to the number of criminals and the very, very few parole officers, and the government routinely lies about recidivism rates. Better to keep them in prison three times as long.

Shit out of arse again. Well not quite, it is true that there are very few parole officers but that's because of people like you who would rather lock up "criminals" for eternity and hide away the problems of our society then deal with the problems head on. Our society and culture is the very cause of crime.

Well, this is defiantly my last post on these boards, how can one argue with this level of ignorance. It's mind boggling how people can shut themselves out from reality and live in a dream world. I guess Max Weber was right, people can rationalise any act or opinion no matter how irrational it is.

**

OT Harper voted for the much hated gun registry.

**

No need to ban me, I promise to be good and never post again.

[KrustyKidd]

Are you pulling this shit out of arse?

You're making my wife laugh out loud, she works for Correctional Service of Canada and assures me that you are full of it.

We are all prison wardens, so know far more than she.

Our society and culture is the very cause of crime.

Interesting topic. Too much for here but will say that it plays a good part of it, but is not all.

[August1991]

Our society and culture is the very cause of crime.

As they say in the US, a conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged. (And a liberal is a conservative who has just been falsely accused of a crime.)

All things considered, blaming the victim for the criminal's act is moral relativism gone wild.

[Wilber]

Our society and culture is the very cause of crime.

As they say in the US, a conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged. (And a liberal is a conservative who has just been falsely accused of a crime.)

All things considered, blaming the victim for the criminal's act is moral relativism gone wild.

This country has been indulging in "moral relativism" for decades. It's what too many Canadians do.

Our mayor has labeled an area of our fair city off limits to the police, to be used as a tent city for the homeless. Several people have written letters to the editors of our local news papers blaming local residents because their barbecues and other belongings are being stolen as well as their trailers and campers being broken into. They have no right to complain you see because if they didn't leave their barbecues out on their patios and didn't leave their RV's parked in their driveways, there would be no problem of course.

[KrustyKidd]

They have no right to complain you see because if they didn't leave their barbecues out on their patios and didn't leave their RV's parked in their driveways, there would be no problem of course.

My BBQ is surrounded by my bear trap collection and I hope nobody hurts themselves when they come to 'borrow' it.

[Wilber]

They have no right to complain you see because if they didn't leave their barbecues out on their patios and didn't leave their RV's parked in their driveways, there would be no problem of course.

My BBQ is surrounded by my bear trap collection and I hope nobody hurts themselves when they come to 'borrow' it.

You know of course that if they do come to "borrow" it and step on one of your traps, you will wind up in court, not them and they will probably sue you to boot.

[KrustyKidd]

I only own that BBQ and the traps so not much to lose. Then I'd get some assistance myself. Course, I have a legless Rotwieler named 'Otis' whom I also keep tied to the BBQ. His bite is worse than his bark but, I'm afraid to take him out in public as the skateboard he rides on gets some wicked stares.

[Hicksey]

Our society and culture is the very cause of crime.

As they say in the US, a conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged. (And a liberal is a conservative who has just been falsely accused of a crime.)

All things considered, blaming the victim for the criminal's act is moral relativism gone wild.

This country has been indulging in "moral relativism" for decades. It's what too many Canadians do.

Our mayor has labeled an area of our fair city off limits to the police, to be used as a tent city for the homeless. Several people have written letters to the editors of our local news papers blaming local residents because their barbecues and other belongings are being stolen as well as their trailers and campers being broken into. They have no right to complain you see because if they didn't leave their barbecues out on their patios and didn't leave their RV's parked in their driveways, there would be no problem of course.

Are you kidding me?

It not a thieve's fault he stole something if it was't nailed and chained down?

That's just stupid.

If its not yours, don't touch it. That simple.

[Hicksey]

Yep made a lot of difference in Windsor yesterday didn't it, those killers really thought about an extended sentence didn't they?

Harsh laws rarely impact spur-of-the-moment crimes. However, suppose there was a rigid, well-known law in place that anyone found carrying an illegal firearm was going to go to jail for 5 years - IMMEDIATELY - with no parole and no negotiation, even on a first offence. Would that punk still have had a gun in his pocket? Suppose that there were special undercover police squads making the rounds of all the local bars and watering holes trying to buy guns illegally, and the sellers knew that if they were caught they'd got to jail for five years IMMEDIATELY - with no parole even on a first offence (10 on the second). Would they have been so quick to sell a firearm cheaply to some punk? Suppose there were harsh laws against smuggling firearms into Canada, and we had better (or at least SOME) border enforcement scoping out border straddling native reservations, for example, watching for people crossing the border with firearms. Would the natives be so quick to smuggle guns across if they faced a minimum 5 year term, no parole, if caught?

And does anyone think these guys were first time offenders? Maybe if they'd gotten hammered the first time they were found commiting crimes they'd have smartened up, or still be in jail.

Great idea, but it will never happen in this country. Too many bleeding hearts.

Bleeding hearts my foot, If the gun factories were shut down and Marujuana was legalized it would free up police to look for the guys with the hard drugs. Building more jails ( schools for crime) will only cost metga bucks and do no good. The US figures prove this.

Just the opposite, we do not need to start selectively legalizing crimes. If you cannot live by the rules set out, then get ready for the consequences.

Taking away guns will only make them more desirable to criminals. Illegal weapons have long been a "piece de resistance" to criminals and all you're going to achieve with your idea to is to make any gun one. You talk about wanting to get the guys that sell the hard stuff, but you want to legalize a drug largely considered a starter drug for people that end up doing hard drugs. All you're likely to achieve is to create a larger maket for the drugs you want to get rid of.

The people that can make the most difference in this are the criminals themselves. Behave like the rest of us do and this problem solves itself. Much like AIDS, if those affected regulate themselves the problem eliminates itself. But because they won't, and the Liberals and NDP don't have the stones to do what needs to be done, we have to hope the CPC will. Ultimately, I don't think anyone will. Too many bleeding hearts.

[Hicksey]

Private prisons are much cheaper, and promising to let them go early is not a deterrent.

It's just the opposite. They end up less afraid to go back because they know they'll serve a pittance compared to their actual sentence.

Why is everyone so afraid of treating a criminal like the degenerate he is?

[margrace]

I only own that BBQ and the traps so not much to lose. Then I'd get some assistance myself. Course, I have a legless Rotwieler named 'Otis' whom I also keep tied to the BBQ. His bite is worse than his bark but, I'm afraid to take him out in public as the skateboard he rides on gets some wicked stares.

On the news this morning it is interesting that Arlington Texas is putting up signs to warn tourists to stay away from certain sections of the city as they are deemed unsafe and the second item was the American protection agency for citizen safefty, whatever it is called, is in Calgary assesing their crime rates.

[Argus]

del

[Argus]

And the parole boards release most people early in order to save money. It's very clear that the guidance from above has been "empty those cells" for quite some years. The way it works is that you earn a day off towards early release for every day you aren't actually caught doing something. So, if you cut up a guy with your shiv on Monday, and get caught with drugs on Wednesday, you still get 5 days off for good behaviour for that week.

Are you pulling this shit out of arse? Did you even research that statement ?! You're making my wife laugh out loud, she works for Correctional Service of Canada and assures me that you are full of it. Makes me think that that majority of what you say comes from the exact same place.

I'm guessing your wife is one of the bureacrats or a hug-a-thug social worker, not someone who actually knows anything. In any event, I spoke quickly and incompletely, though more or less accurately. What I meant to say is that regardless of what trouble they cause during the week, during the month, prisoners are still credited with days earned towards parole. They don't need to be. If they act up the rules allow that they forfeit the credit they would otherwise have earned during that period. But that rarely happens. Being caught with drugs, or selling drugs, or involved in a fight is no reason whatever to not be given extra credits towards parole. You might lose some of the "credit" towards parole you would have otherwise earned that month - or might not, depending on the guidance from above. But guidance from above has been ,for many years "get them out!" and so it often happens that you really have to act up consistently and badly in order to lose your parole credits for that month.

As for where I get much of my information, it comes from this guy.

Con Game

The Parole Game

Remissions due to good behaviour

Well, this is defiantly my last post on these boards, how can one argue with this level of ignorance. It's mind boggling how people can shut themselves out from reality and live in a dream world.

You mean, like, abandoning a political web site where not everyone agrees with you because it makes you uncomfortable and angry? Gee, talk about shutting yourself out from reality! No doubt you'll be much happier at babble.ca or whatever they're called, where everyone will agree with you and you can pretend the world is as you dream it .

[Argus]

How about doubling their sentence if they act up? How about solitary confinement? How about transfer to a prison up at Alert? How about bread and water alone in your cell until you behave yourself?

Draconian punishment to instill positive beharvior is only workable in theory. People in groups, when faced with nothing but a downside just don't give a shit, and, become unmanageable, angry and, begin to bond in a directional manner to gravitate their anger to the logical focal point of their misery.

Hard to do that locked in a stone cell all day and night. And if people are too exhausted from breaking rocks all day they'll have less time to think about acting up. Draconian punishment works very well indeed in many, many countries today, not to mention throughout history. If you can't see anything but a downside to acting up then you won't act up. No?

As I said before, to implement somthing like this would reguire an almost one for one guard/inmate ratio. Another thing that seems like a bleeding heart progressive moron would say does ring true here. That is, that in such a situation, a person going in for say, fraud, shoplifting or whatever, would most certainly come out of this 'gulag' type of situation as a very hardened and determined individual.

We're not talking about shoplifters. We're talking about gang-bangers, armed robbers, killers and rapists. As for coming out a 'very determined individual' what do you imagine their determination would be? Do commit crimes so they can go back? You explain the rules to people, and when they act up they have no one but themselves to blame. They keep acting up, their time keeps growing so they'll never get out, and they'll spend that time in solitary. The present system todesn't rehabilitate anyone anyway. Prisons are sewers of drugs and homosexual rape where life is controlled by brutal gangs. Who gets rehabilitated by that?