Liberal party shows Ignorance and Arrogance

[betsy]

Not necessarily are all aspects taught at home. There are such things as basic computer skills and games that promote teamwork that kids may not get at home, for example, not all households have computers and it's hard for a child to learn teamwork on a constant basis if that child is an only child.

Well, some kids need a kickstart to get that "natural instinct to get right into it." For example, my cousin has one child, a boy, who was super shy (part of the reason was that she and her husband lived in an area where there were not many kids in the neighbourhood.) Once she brought him to daycare when he was three years old, she saw a huge change and he become more social, more confident in himself.

Those ECE grads work hard everyday to provide a caring, learning environment for the children and in regards to teaching the kids to "dress up and button up," perhaps one should talk to those kids' parents! And in regards to the teacher not making sure the kids are dressed up for the weather, then perhaps that teacher needs to be talked to. If I saw a similar event as you did, I would complain to that teacher and if that didn't work, to her supervisor.

I understand about some kids being shy or not used to being with other kids. Here we have what we call a "play group." Care-providers and parents are welcomed to bring their children to socialize and play.

But let's face it...it's not rocket science to throw children together and encourage play.

I do not mean to belittle ECE grads...but really, I would say that this certificate is over-rated! Understandably, since this is a politicized issue...and the oppositions are trying to sell the idea.

Care-providers can provide the utmost care and proper stimulation to help and encourage all aspects of developments in a child....whether they have this ECE certificate or not....as long as they have the basic knowledge of child development (and some training), and PRACTICAL UNDERSTANDING of children.

As for a teacher who needs to be told that children should be dressed up for the weather....one wonders if there's any adult in charge anymore in some of these classrooms!

In another school, my husband picked up my after-school kids and complained to me about what he saw in the yard. It was a mild winter day...and kids were playing in the slush puddles. A teacher was there in the yard with them and just letting this happen.

My grade 1 kids were soaking wet! You know what happened when I called the school to complain?

The response was "Oh, they should know better than to play in the puddle. If there is any complaints, it should come from their parents."

I angrily shot back and said, "well I am their babysitter...therefore I am their guardian. I am speaking for the parents!"

[betsy]

Duffy jokingly referred to a feedback commenting the educational system is so entrenched with NDP-leaning teachers and so-called "educators" that they'd want to get hold of children as young as possible so they can be moulded to the NDP way of thinking. Of course the NDP strategist side-stepped this comment and didn't answer...switching instead to the well-rehearsed over-used line of reasoning.

Now seriously, do you think this is a big conspiracy to brainwash kids into becoming left-leaning adults.

Why wouldn't I suspect that? Just look how Hollywood and the media sell ideas and their own sets of values...and society's lapping it all up!

[Michael Hardner]

Why wouldn't I suspect that? Just look how Hollywood and the media sell ideas and their own sets of values...and society's lapping it all up!

Obviously there are different ideas out there, but it's pretty inflammatory to call it brainwashing. And a plot to brainwash children regardless of the benefits/costs to society ? It's pretty ridiculous.

[Hicksey]

I don't think that it should be assumed that people are greedy for wanting those little extras in life. I want them too. I think its human nature to want the better things in life.

Your honesty is refreshing. But it hasn't escaped my notice that some people who agitate for Harper's program on teh grounds of choice also impugn the motives of those who might use daycare (of course, to say nothing of the fact that saying working families are selfish, materialistic people is getting close to "beer and popcorn" territory.)

I don't think I should be taxed so someone can have a bigger house or car. Its not right. Those are things people ought to have to earn, not have them handed to you.

I seem to recall that you oppose Harper's handout, which is good. Because it would be prety inconsistent to say one doesn't want taxpayer money supporting individual extravagance and then turn around and support a program that is simply a straight cash handout ($1,200 a year won't get you much in terms of childcare, but would make for a pretty decent downpayment on that new home theatre system).

In any case, we're not talking about taxes going to somebody's new car or plasma screen TV. At the end of the day, people still have to work for these things. As far as that affects the idea of a public childcare program, I'm sure one could set it up so that there are restrictions as to who can access it if materialism is such a big problem. But I don't accept that it is.

You're right, I am against the handout.

I think it is about materialism more than most of us will admit. Most people send the second parent back to work not because they're not making it, but because they want more. And I don't blame them for wanting more from life. We all should. But it shouldn't be our responsibility to subsidize that.

My wife and I haven't decided to send her back to work yet because the fiscal realities of child care and the wages of the jobs she is finding don't jive. Its not worth net paying for her to work. But does that mean I deserve to have someone else pay for it? All the extra will go for is things above and beyond sustenance, so no.

Should this option be there for low income families, yes. For them the second job means keeping their heads above water.

[betsy]

Why wouldn't I suspect that? Just look how Hollywood and the media sell ideas and their own sets of values...and society's lapping it all up!

Obviously there are different ideas out there, but it's pretty inflammatory to call it brainwashing. And a plot to brainwash children regardless of the benefits/costs to society ? It's pretty ridiculous.

Well it does seem ridiculous to think this way. But what could be more ridiculous than the Liberals/NDP's determination to put this universal daycare plan into place even when:

Universal daycare in Quebec is failing.

Research findings indicate children do not fare that well.

It will serve only small segment of society...and that is not the segment that needs it most.

It is not popular among parents.

There is a real question whether there is indeed lack of space!

Yeah, there are different ideas out there. But there are "ideas" that starts within the family: the values and the belief of the family. Surely you could easily imagine how the school board's philosophy, values and ideas could easily be integrated in the program and can easily be passed on.

It is not the kind of brainwashing you can imagine in the likes of James Bond movies. This is just practically "teaching" and getting the child used to the ideas. Just the kind of reading materials they could read to these children is a good example.

[betsy]

Why wouldn't I suspect that? Just look how Hollywood and the media sell ideas and their own sets of values...and society's lapping it all up!

Obviously there are different ideas out there, but it's pretty inflammatory to call it brainwashing. And a plot to brainwash children regardless of the benefits/costs to society ? It's pretty ridiculous.

Is it ridiculous? Is it just paranoia? This is a very interesting read.

"In Toronto schools the lesson plans for every subject are saturated with sexualized language and ideas. Heterosexism as an oppressive archetype is systematically attacked throughout the curriculum. Students are assigned literature critical of heterosexism as the hegemonic paradigm 4 in our culture. When the plan was introduced by the Toronto Board - after being developed without consultation from the broad public, including faith-based groups - it elicited violent opposition from parents. Fistfights broke out at one meeting. Parents who object to lessons are now banned from school property. The Board has failed to recognize broad opposition to the curriculum, including many ethnic and cultural groups whose faith and cultures vehemently oppose homosexual behaviour. 5"

http://www.hamiltonfamilyaction.org/Educat...rticleJan05.htm

[Argus]

There's no doubt some people have no choice but to have both parents work. There is also no doubt, and people on the left don't deny it but don't like to talk about it either, that some people could stay at home with the kids fairly easily, or with some economizing, but don't choose to because of lifestyle and career choices.

So should people who make a choice to work not get support?

Who says they don't? They get the same money as those who stay at home. They can put theirs towards daycare costs, just as the stay-at-homes can buy more diapers - or beer and popcorn. At least it's even-handed, while the Liberals "program" did nothing whatsoever for those who stayed at home with the kids.