Anglophones face 'linguistic cleansing'

[Leafless]

Article- Ottawa Citizen-Wed. May 3/2006, Page C3, titled 'Anglophones face 'linguistic cleansing'

The propossed closing of two English language schools in the Outaouais is another sign of "linguistic cleansing of anglophones", the director of Regional Association of West Quebecers said yesterday.

Brian Gibb, said Quebec's language law means English language schools , especially those in rural areas, are hit harder by declining enrolement, forcing some of them to close.

Under Quebec's Charter of the French Language, children can attend English-language schools if one parent has had most of his or her education in English somewhere in Canada. Immigrants and children whose parents can't prove they are legally entitled to an English language education MUST attend French language schools.

Enrolement is low in English schools due to a loe birthrate, limited access to English schools and a lack of proper FUNDING.

" People have stsrted sending their children to French schools because they can offer more choices to students. The members of the English speaking community are being treated as third class citizens.

Mr. Gibb said after 30 years of the adaption of Bill-101, there as been a 50% decline in enrolement in English -language schools also based on the fact francophone schoolboards in the Outaouais can obtain higher government grants based on enrolement because they can DEPEND on an influx of immigrant students.

" We are looking at linguistic cleansing of anglophones in the rural regions of West Quebec. If you are ouside of the commuying distance from Ottawa, English schools are no longer workable. The ability of anglophone communities to continue once their schools close.

This is more proof I think that any kind of forced bilingual funding for French services outside of Quebec is a waste of time and effort when it is clear Quebec will continue to discriminate against English people and communities in Quebec.

Majority English provinces should do what Quebec does and declare their provinces offically English with similar restrictions like Quebec to protect the English language, English financial resources and English jobs.

[geoffrey]

Oh boo hoo.

Stop being a hypocrit. In one thread, you complain about how the French get schools in English Canada, saying they should be shut down. And now you complain about the the Quebecois are doing that to English speakers in Quebec.

Maybe they read your post and decided it was accurate.

In Calgary, by the way, we just closed a French immersion school, consolidating resources... and this is in a city with a growing population of French immersion students. So by your logic, this is a massive attack on the rights of the French population.

What a joke.

I'm all for closing down non-viable schools, no need to protect them just because they are French or English. But your hypocracy here is beyond all known bounds.

[Temagami Scourge]

I have to agree with Geoffrey. It sounds like a board reorganization/consolidation that someone jumped on and ran up the English Language Rights flag.

[Leafless]

geoffrey

You wrote- " In one thread you complain about how the French got schools in English Canada, saying they should be shut down. And now you complain about that the Quebecois are doing that to English speakers in Quebec."

I don't know what post your making reference to but you are comparing two separate issue's.

What the Quebec provincial government is doing to English school boards in Quebec is linguistically obliterating them by incorporating LINQUISTIC CONDITIONS that make it near impossible to properly create the numbers of English students necessary to keep English schools functionable pertaining to enrolement numbers.

In other words they have created an hostile English enviroment not only for English schools but English employment which is reflected in the numbers of younger anglophones that leave Quebec.

You also wrote- " We just closed a French emmersion school, consolidating resources...and this is a city with a growing number of French immersion students. So by your logic, this is a massive attack on the rights of the French population."

You are saying this not I.

French immersion students are normally English.

I don't understand your logic by saying I would consider this "a massive attack on the rights of the French population."

You also wrote- " I'am all for closing down non-viable schools, no need to protect them French or English. Buy tour hypocracy here is beyond all known bounds."

This is a typical response by a 'French sympathizer' who refuses to acknowledge outright discrimination when it is presented before you in a straight forward manner in the form of a legitimate media article.

Just remember you can make any school non-viable by the employing the proper un-democratic and discriminatory conditions.

[mcqueen625]

Oh boo hoo.

Stop being a hypocrit. In one thread, you complain about how the French get schools in English Canada, saying they should be shut down. And now you complain about the the Quebecois are doing that to English speakers in Quebec.

Maybe they read your post and decided it was accurate.

In Calgary, by the way, we just closed a French immersion school, consolidating resources... and this is in a city with a growing population of French immersion students. So by your logic, this is a massive attack on the rights of the French population.

What a joke.

I'm all for closing down non-viable schools, no need to protect them just because they are French or English. But your hypocracy here is beyond all known bounds.

Most French Immersion programs across Canada are modelled after the New Brunswick French Immersion Program, because NB is the only supposedly 'Officially Bilingual Province in Canada. The truth is that after all of these years less than 17% of New Brunswickers are fluently bilingual, even though large numbers of English language students are opting into a French Immersion Program. The truth is also that once out of the classroom the oipportunity to practice French skills is non-existant throughout most of the province, because the language spoken is English, not French. Less than 20% of the people who are fluently bilingual, a level which is required in order to apply for jobs designated as bilingual, and in NB the majority of jobs posted in government are designated as such. Not too long ago the former Education Minister for the Province ogf New Brunswick, Elvy Robichaud stated that, "The French Immersion Program in New Brunswick was never designed nor expected to produce fluently bilingual garaduates." That said what we hthen have is nothing but a sham, because trhe truth is that the vast majority of children graduating from French Immersion Programs right across Canada, are at best functionally bilingual, and that is a far cry from the fluency required in order to qualify for most jobs posted as bilingualism required.

[No truth]

Hopefully, now that the government of Canada is not being run from Quebec, we can start down the road to consigning Official Bilingualism to the scrapheap of history, where it belongs. The future of this country is in English, its past is in French.

[Bakunin]

I beleive an English PM will always be nicer to quebecker to make sure he doesn't get a bad image in quebec and a French PM will always be harder on quebec to make sure he doesn't get a bad image in the rest of canada.

So i beleive down the road, Harper in the next 2 election will either lose the support of one of the 2 cultural groups.

[Leafless]

Bakunin

You wrote- " So i beleive down the road, Harper in the next 2 election will either lose the support of one of the 2 cultural groups."

So you are basically saying federalism is basically unworkable in trying to interwine two different cultures politically.

Funny thing...I've been saying the same thing for years!

[geoffrey]

Bakunin

You wrote- " So i beleive down the road, Harper in the next 2 election will either lose the support of one of the 2 cultural groups."

So you are basically saying federalism is basically unworkable in trying to interwine two different cultures politically.

Funny thing...I've been saying the same thing for years!

It's more than two cultures in Canada, its arguably 5 or 6:

B.C. (Hippie-Immigrant style)

Alberta (Rich, individualist, right-wing as possible)

Saskatchewan/Manitoba (Farmer types)

Ontario (Wanna-be Europe)

Quebec (Wanna-be France)

Maritimes (Welfare basket case)

So thats how this country should be divided, and we should all just share free trade and mutual defense/foreign policy.

Otherwise this fight between regions will just continue forever. And Leafless wouldn't have to worry about French in his province.

[Leafless]

geoffrey

You wrote- " It's more than two cultures in Canada, it's argubaly 5 or 6."

Then again factually it could be 30 or 40 or more cultures.

I guess that's why they claim Canada is 'officially multicultural'.

And I would say that could be an uneducated call since out of all those different languages spoken they only identify two that are official.

Those two are one being English the international language of the world and language of commerce in Canada all 30-40 or more cultures speak and the other one being French a residential language that is only spoken in the province of Quebec and in small clusters elsewhere in other provinces in Canada.

The cause of problems in Canada relating to federalism is when you take a single component out a cultural identity (language) and try to form a legitimate difference for political reasons is very problamatic because as we know for a fact we are all suppose to be multi cultural Canadians to begin with and are all protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

But in the case of the Charter relating to Quebec is given more protection which presents a bias in relation to everyone else and forms a basis for discrimination since it is obvious we are all not legally equal.

This makes it tough for a federal government to rule and appease in a fair equal manner applicable to all Canadians which were not.

[Machinations]

The linguistic policies of the Quebec government would not stand a constitutional challenge, of that there is no doubt. One wonders why noone has the intestinal fortitude to forward one - from within Quebec, of course.

That being said, most separatists are, inside, conservative - and therefore, economic realists, if not capitalists at heart. The Tories will siphon lots of supporters - and many, rightly, are disillusioned about a 'free' Quebec - what does that mean, how is it different from what they have now. Few now but the radicals are willing to accept huge economic changes in order to force an idealized state.

Hopefully in 50 years one will be able to open a business in Montreal without worrying about what the suits are doing in Quebec City.

[lost&outofcontrol]

The linguistic policies of the Quebec government would not stand a constitutional challenge, of that there is no doubt. One wonders why noone has the intestinal fortitude to forward one - from within Quebec, of course.

That being said, most separatists are, inside, conservative - and therefore, economic realists, if not capitalists at heart. The Tories will siphon lots of supporters - and many, rightly, are disillusioned about a 'free' Quebec - what does that mean, how is it different from what they have now. Few now but the radicals are willing to accept huge economic changes in order to force an idealized state.

Hopefully in 50 years one will be able to open a business in Montreal without worrying about what the suits are doing in Quebec City.

Actually, most separatists (being one of them myself) are, inside, socialists or left leaning capitalists. It's only recently that the PQ started moving to the right. Hopefully in 50 years, Quebec will be a society modelled in the quebecois image.

[Machinations]

The linguistic policies of the Quebec government would not stand a constitutional challenge, of that there is no doubt. One wonders why noone has the intestinal fortitude to forward one - from within Quebec, of course.

That being said, most separatists are, inside, conservative - and therefore, economic realists, if not capitalists at heart. The Tories will siphon lots of supporters - and many, rightly, are disillusioned about a 'free' Quebec - what does that mean, how is it different from what they have now. Few now but the radicals are willing to accept huge economic changes in order to force an idealized state.

Hopefully in 50 years one will be able to open a business in Montreal without worrying about what the suits are doing in Quebec City.

Actually, most separatists (being one of them myself) are, inside, socialists or left leaning capitalists. It's only recently that the PQ started moving to the right. Hopefully in 50 years, Quebec will be a society modelled in the quebecois image.

Most separatists have, at best, a vague idea of what a 'seperate' Quebec looks like. I disagree also that most seperatists are socialists - perhaps the leadership is, but the base is deeply conservative - I think the leadership is just starting to clue in to this.

I'm one of the hardliners on this issue, being unable to accept the proposition. Civil war - a la mort, mon frere.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Most separatists have, at best, a vague idea of what a 'seperate' Quebec looks like. I disagree also that most seperatists are socialists - perhaps the leadership is, but the base is deeply conservative - I think the leadership is just starting to clue in to this.

I'm one of the hardliners on this issue, being unable to accept the proposition. Civil war - a la mort, mon frere.

I'll have to disagree with you on that, most Quebecois do in fact know what separation entails since they've already went through two referendum. Its kinda of a cop out to brand the opposition as ignorant to reinforce your own position. The PQ has been moving steadily to the right for the past 15 years leaving its voters party-less, but now that Quebec Solidaire is on the scene, things will be heating up.

Just a quick question, in the event of a majority OUI in a referendum, would you be willing to fight and kill your fellow Quebecois to stay in Canada ?

[Machinations]

Most separatists have, at best, a vague idea of what a 'seperate' Quebec looks like. I disagree also that most seperatists are socialists - perhaps the leadership is, but the base is deeply conservative - I think the leadership is just starting to clue in to this.

I'm one of the hardliners on this issue, being unable to accept the proposition. Civil war - a la mort, mon frere.

I'll have to disagree with you on that, most Quebecois do in fact know what separation entails since they've already went through two referendum. Its kinda of a cop out to brand the opposition as ignorant to reinforce your own position. The PQ has been moving steadily to the right for the past 15 years leaving its voters party-less, but now that Quebec Solidaire is on the scene, things will be heating up.

Just a quick question, in the event of a majority OUI in a referendum, would you be willing to fight and kill your fellow Quebecois to stay in Canada ?

I don't believe they will be willing to fight the rest of the country to get out. If they are, then hell yes.

Negotiations over a barrel are'nt negotiations - it's blackmail. I'm sure members of the Union were less-than-enthusiastic about killing their countrymen - however, under similar circumstances, it happened.

[Charles Anthony]

" So you are basically saying federalism is basically unworkable in trying to interwine two different cultures politically.

Funny thing...I've been saying the same thing for years!"

"So thats how this country should be divided, and we should all just share free trade and mutual defense/foreign policy."

"This makes it tough for a federal government to rule and appease in a fair equal manner applicable to all Canadians which were not."

Hey! Now we are talking some sense! I thought for the longest time that I was alone on this planet called Canada but I see that there are lot more people on my side than I could ever have imagined.

We should group together and form our own party. We could call it "le Parti Canadien" or "le Bloc Canadois" and we could advocate the decentralization of the country!

"Just a quick question, in the event of a majority OUI in a referendum, would you be willing to fight and kill your fellow Quebecois to stay in Canada ?"

I am not in Quebec but it affects me too. Personally, I do believe that Quebec will separate peacefully. Maybe a few mailbox explosions and kidnappings, but not a civil war.

If there was a civil war, I would not support Canadian troops going into Quebec. Also, I doubt the rest of Canada would support that either. Thus, I doubt that it would happen.

If there was a conscription (that would never happen, I know; I am just saying hypothetically) and I was forced to go into Quebec, I would defect.

[Bakunin]

A good sample as what would happen is what happened in montenegro.

They just separated from yougoslavia less than a month ago.

Its a good sample because they are composed of an important minority wich is also the case in quebec.

The yes side won with a 0,5% margin and even in an unstable country like yougoslavia the world didnt end....

I hate it when ppl dramatize stuff and think there will be a civil war... common... a civil war ?? the morning after another possible referendum is not much different than a day after an election. The ppl that lose may not be fully happy but the life goes on and they go to work and later in the day they watch there favorite tv show, eat chips and go to sleep. The day after they already forgot what happenned.

I just can't find a more frustrating way to lose for the sovreignist in 1995 and you know what the day after it was halloween and ppl already forgot what happened. It was a great halloween, i put on my ninga turtle costume and then i went get candy and i ate them and life goes on... nobody rallied ppl to start a civil war or another stupidity like that...

[Riverwind]

Its a good sample because they are composed of an important minority wich is also the case in quebec.

The yes side won with a 0,5% margin and even in an unstable country like yougoslavia the world didnt end....

I don't think there would be a huge crisis in Canada if Quebequers voted 55.5% on a clear question asking for an indepedent state. A simple majority on an unclear question like in 95 is a recipe for chaos.