I never had anyone on ignore before I learned this

[WestCanMan]

17 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Read the link--or any other discussion of efficacy. The disparity month-over-month is dramatic. And this has been posted for you dozens of times at this point. 

 

This is what we watched play out around the world. Over and over again. The vaccines dramatically reduced hospitalization and death (independent metrics) of those who contracted COVID. In the exact same way that a seat belt reduces the probability of serious injury or death in the event of a car accident. 

The vaccines were massively successful, saving over a million lives. And you continually shit on them because you only want to look at raw numbers rather than rates. 🙄

1. Why do you keep citing US CDC data from the BBC? That's weird. It's almost like they think that they can get away with posting stats like that without substantiating them if they come from a different country.
2. That is the exact opposite of what happened here in Canada. 
3. I'm gonna tell you right now, that chart is total BS, because the summer simply is not flu/covid season, period. It's completely impossible that covid spiked like that during the summer and then dropped in the fall. 

Even in Canada, where covid stopped taking the summer "off" in 2022 (after we vaxed 85% of Canadians) the covid deaths still went down substantially during the summer.

 

And just FYI you're not citing anything worth looking at. You're citing claims from a medical community which is heavily funded by big pharma, I'm posting death stats for an entire country. 

The CDC even got caught lying about the pseudovax... Remember Rochelle Wolenski?

Stats are "How many people died of covid, how many people were hospitalized", etc. Everything else is subject to manipulation - even the stats in Canada that showed that 86.3% of covid deaths were among the multi-jabbed. 

The goal for the vax was to lower deaths and hospitalizations, period.  

AFTER VAXING CANADA HAD:

1. far more covid infections than ever before
2. far more covid hospitalizations than ever before
3. far more covid deaths than ever before
4. far less covid coverage than ever before
5. almost 90% of our covid deaths were among the multi-vaxed, with the 3x- and 4x-vaxed faring the worst of any cohort

Your dramatic claim that the vax worked here, when every major indicator PROVES that it actually did not, has been refuted, again, and it's really time that you admitted to that.

[robosmith]

21 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1. Why do you keep citing US CDC data from the BBC? That's weird. It's almost like they think that they can get away with posting stats like that without substantiating them if they come from a different country.
2. That is the exact opposite of what happened here in Canada. 
3. I'm gonna tell you right now, that chart is total BS, because the summer simply is not flu/covid season, period. It's completely impossible that covid spiked like that during the summer and then dropped in the fall. 

Even in Canada, where covid stopped taking the summer "off" in 2022 (after we vaxed 85% of Canadians) the covid deaths still went down substantially during the summer.

 

And just FYI you're not citing anything worth looking at. You're citing claims from a medical community which is heavily funded by big pharma, I'm posting death stats for an entire country. 

The CDC even got caught lying about the pseudovax... Remember Rochelle Wolenski?

Stats are "How many people died of covid, how many people were hospitalized", etc. Everything else is subject to manipulation - even the stats in Canada that showed that 86.3% of covid deaths were among the multi-jabbed. 

The goal for the vax was to lower deaths and hospitalizations, period.  

AFTER VAXING CANADA HAD:

1. far more covid infections than ever before
2. far more covid hospitalizations than ever before
3. far more covid deaths than ever before
4. far less covid coverage than ever before
5. almost 90% of our covid deaths were among the multi-vaxed, with the 3x- and 4x-vaxed faring the worst of any cohort

Your dramatic claim that the vax worked here, when every major indicator PROVES that it actually did not, has been refuted, again, and it's really time that you admitted to that.

Your pretense that you have medical expertise when you don't even have an MD NOR ever read a medical journal just makes whatever you write have NO CREDIBILITY.

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

Bullshit. L was the only strain in 2019.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200803105246.htm

Currently, there are six strains of coronavirus. The original one is the L strain, that appeared in Wuhan in December 2019.

Its first mutation -- the S strain -- appeared at the beginning of 2020, while, since mid-January 2020, we have had strains V and G. To date strain G is the most widespread: it mutated into strains GR and GH at the end of February 2020.

‐------------------

It originated in the wet market because a worker contracted it and gave it to everyone at one end of the wet market. They have that pinned down to a specific booth.

I'm not lying. I just know more than you.

You are lying, expressly and explicitly about what Fauci said. You've tried to literally change his words. That's a fact we can all see clearly.

As to the rest, you just don't know what you're talking about. You are using an old report and overlaying your own narrative. This is from 2022. The genomic lineage does show that the virus had multiple animal to human transmission points.
 
As 2019 turned into 2020, a coronavirus spilled over from wild animals into people, sparking what has become one of the best documented pandemics to afflict humans. However, the origins of the pandemic in December 2019 are controversial. Worobey et al. amassed the variety of evidence from the City of Wuhan, China, where the first human infections were reported. These reports confirm that most of the earliest human cases centered around the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market. Within the market, the data statistically located the earliest human cases to one section where vendors of live wild animals congregated and where virus-positive environmental samples concentrated. In a related report, Pekar et al. found that genomic diversity before February 2020 comprised two distinct viral lineages, A and B, which were the result of at least two separate cross-species transmission events into humans (see the Perspective by Jiang and Wang). The precise events surrounding virus spillover will always be clouded, but all of the circumstantial evidence so far points to more than one zoonotic event occurring in Huanan market in Wuhan, China, likely during November–December 2019. —CA

Edited March 13 by Hodad

[User]

Back to the topic of this thread, here is exactly why @robosmith hides from me. He makes ignorant false comments, I pick them apart, and then he runs and hides. 
 

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Your pretense that you have medical expertise when you don't even have an MD NOR ever read a medical journal just makes whatever you write have NO CREDIBILITY.

I don't need a medical degree to tell the difference between dead and not dead you f'ing cultist. Warm, breathing, heartbeat, walking, saying words... alive. Cold, not breathing, no pulse, getting buried... dead. 100% accuracy.

FYI medical expertise comes second to stats at the end of the day, robo. Grow up. Drs get a chance to save lives, and when they fail, we jot that down. "I get that you tried really hard, doc. I get that you gave him a shiny vax and a rousing speech, but we still have to bury him."

We forced people to take the vax so that:

1. hospitalizations would go down
2. deaths would go down
3. people wouldn't have to worry about spreading covid to the elderly/vulnerable people they loved

None of that happened. Not one f'ing thing that Fauci said about the jabs came true. It did harm people. It seriously harmed people. It killed people. People still got sick. People still gave covid to granny just as fast. People still ended up in hospital. In fact, hospitalizations skyrocketed. People still ended ip in ICU after taking the jabs. People still died after vaxxing 3 and 4 times. We set a record for covid deaths in a single year just among the number of multi-vaxed people that died in 2022. 

I don't need a medical degree to say that's a failure. I know the difference between way more deaths and less deaths. I don't need a medical degree to know that we were lied to.

You do need to keep your head firmly lodged up your arse to pretend that it was not a failure. 

And you need to really jam your head up your arse to not be concerned about our media choosing to stop talking about covid when infections, hospitalizations and deaths all skyrocketed. 

And why do I usually have you on ignore? Because i know that you will blow past all the facts and stats just to blurt out stupid BS every single time. 

Edited March 13 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

25 minutes ago, User said:

Back to the topic of this thread, here is exactly why @robosmith hides from me. He makes ignorant false comments, I pick them apart, and then he runs and hides. 

The topic of this thread is more about the fact that robo "makes ignorant false comments" just lies all the time and he will never own up, ever. 

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1. Why do you keep citing US CDC data from the BBC? That's weird. It's almost like they think that they can get away with posting stats like that without substantiating them if they come from a different country.
2. That is the exact opposite of what happened here in Canada. 
3. I'm gonna tell you right now, that chart is total BS, because the summer simply is not flu/covid season, period. It's completely impossible that covid spiked like that during the summer and then dropped in the fall. 

Even in Canada, where covid stopped taking the summer "off" in 2022 (after we vaxed 85% of Canadians) the covid deaths still went down substantially during the summer.

 

And just FYI you're not citing anything worth looking at. You're citing claims from a medical community which is heavily funded by big pharma, I'm posting death stats for an entire country. 

The CDC even got caught lying about the pseudovax... Remember Rochelle Wolenski?

Stats are "How many people died of covid, how many people were hospitalized", etc. Everything else is subject to manipulation - even the stats in Canada that showed that 86.3% of covid deaths were among the multi-jabbed. 

The goal for the vax was to lower deaths and hospitalizations, period.  

AFTER VAXING CANADA HAD:

1. far more covid infections than ever before
2. far more covid hospitalizations than ever before
3. far more covid deaths than ever before
4. far less covid coverage than ever before
5. almost 90% of our covid deaths were among the multi-vaxed, with the 3x- and 4x-vaxed faring the worst of any cohort

Your dramatic claim that the vax worked here, when every major indicator PROVES that it actually did not, has been refuted, again, and it's really time that you admitted to that.

I gave you an article because I've seen what you do to raw data. This article is like every other article--it's not special. If you want the CDC data from the CDC, you're welcome to it.

CDC

Overall mortality rates among unvaccinated persons were 14.1 times the rates among bivalent vaccine recipients; mortality rates among monovalent-only vaccine recipients were 2.6 times the rates among bivalent vaccine recipients during the late BA.4/BA.5 period.

 

The data in Canada does NOT show the opposite. Canada's vaccination profile was MUCH higher. As always, if 100% of the people are vaccinated, then 100% of deaths would be among the vaccinated. The percentage of the population vaccinated has a HUGE impact on the raw numbers of hospitalizations and deaths (by vaccination status) but not on the rates. The rates of hospitalization and death for vaccinated humans in any country are dramatically lower than those outcomes for the unvaccinated. Unequivocally, the numbers show that the vaccines worked. That is the medical and scientific consensus--and anyone who knows basic statistics can see that in the data.

Canada.ca

 

Your points 1-6 are entirely irrelevant because you are asking the wrong questions. Look at the rates. Again see seat belts as a model. The raw numbers are irrelevant. They do not measure the benefit of the mitigation. 

 

And if you don't trust any data, WTF is the point anyway?

 

Edited March 14 by Hodad

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't need a medical degree to tell the difference between dead and not dead you f'ing cultist. Warm, breathing, heartbeat, walking, saying words... alive. Cold, not breathing, no pulse, getting buried... dead. 100% accuracy.

FYI medical expertise comes second to stats at the end of the day, robo. Grow up. Drs get a chance to save lives, and when they fail, we jot that down. "I get that you tried really hard, doc. I get that you gave him a shiny vax and a rousing speech, but we still have to bury him."

We forced people to take the vax so that:

1. hospitalizations would go down
2. deaths would go down
3. people wouldn't have to worry about spreading covid to the elderly/vulnerable people they loved

None of that happened. Not one f'ing thing that Fauci said about the jabs came true. It did harm people. It seriously harmed people. It killed people. People still got sick. People still gave covid to granny just as fast. People still ended up in hospital. In fact, hospitalizations skyrocketed. People still ended ip in ICU after taking the jabs. People still died after vaxxing 3 and 4 times. We set a record for covid deaths in a single year just among the number of multi-vaxed people that died in 2022. 

I don't need a medical degree to say that's a failure. I know the difference between way more deaths and less deaths. I don't need a medical degree to know that we were lied to.

You do need to keep your head firmly lodged up your arse to pretend that it was not a failure. 

And you need to really jam your head up your arse to not be concerned about our media choosing to stop talking about covid when infections, hospitalizations and deaths all skyrocketed. 

And why do I usually have you on ignore? Because i know that you will blow past all the facts and stats just to blurt out stupid BS every single time. 

You've continually proven why statistics without understanding to what they're applied is known as LYING WITH STATISTICS. Duh

Edited March 14 by robosmith

[User]

20 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You've continually proven why statistics without understanding to what they're applied is known as LYING WITH STATISTICS. Duh

Speaking of lies... when are you going to own up to yours?

 

[gatomontes99]

17 hours ago, Hodad said:

You are lying, expressly and explicitly about what Fauci said. You've tried to literally change his words. That's a fact we can all see clearly.

As to the rest, you just don't know what you're talking about. You are using an old report and overlaying your own narrative. This is from 2022. The genomic lineage does show that the virus had multiple animal to human transmission points.
 
As 2019 turned into 2020, a coronavirus spilled over from wild animals into people, sparking what has become one of the best documented pandemics to afflict humans. However, the origins of the pandemic in December 2019 are controversial. Worobey et al. amassed the variety of evidence from the City of Wuhan, China, where the first human infections were reported. These reports confirm that most of the earliest human cases centered around the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market. Within the market, the data statistically located the earliest human cases to one section where vendors of live wild animals congregated and where virus-positive environmental samples concentrated. In a related report, Pekar et al. found that genomic diversity before February 2020 comprised two distinct viral lineages, A and B, which were the result of at least two separate cross-species transmission events into humans (see the Perspective by Jiang and Wang). The precise events surrounding virus spillover will always be clouded, but all of the circumstantial evidence so far points to more than one zoonotic event occurring in Huanan market in Wuhan, China, likely during November–December 2019. —CA

Worobely is the only person that has come to that conclusion and he made a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions to come to that conclusion.

One assumption he makes is that Sars-COV-2 was out before it was first detected. That isn't a bad assumption, but he uses that assertion to assume that the people that were first known to have Covid, didn't have a common location. That isn't known. But he uses that to assume they all got it from animals in other areas. Like when he says one person must have gotten it from poultry at the wet market while admitting there is no evidence that poultry at the wet market had Covid at the time.

Let's say his first assumption is correct, Sars-COV-2 was out before it was detected. That doesn't disprove the lab leak theory. If the virus got airborne in the lab, multiple people would have gotten it and transmitted it. That would make it appear as if it had come from multiple places around town.

To prove Sars-COV-2 came from nature, it would have had to have been detected in multiple areas. Not just in Wuhan.

Now, you seem to be very mad that I'm paraphrasing Dr. Fauci. I've ignored the hypocrisy of this long enough. Your side has been blatantly mischaracterizing Trump since day 1. Remember the "blood bath" trope lie? Remember the "very fine people on both sides" lie? There is a huge difference. I'm not changing the meaning or leaving out context. He said that mutations are totally natural and that all evidence points to a natural mutation. I'm not lying.

The funny part is, you are calling me a liar for saying he said it was natural and then defending the lie that it was natural. Which is it?

Your hypocrisy is dripping all over this thread. Clean it up.

Here is an article that details why the virus is likely man made. It is a NYTs article but I grabbed a link that is not behind a pay wall: https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-scientist-explains-covid-lab-escape-theory

Here is a link to a Newsweek article about the Wuhan institute’s Defuse proposal: https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-us-scientists-make-coronaviruses-ecohealth-wiv-drastic-documents-1636532

In summary, the lab had bad procedures, no animal at the wet market ever had Sars-COV-2 and the Wuhan lab proposed working with a virus and mutating it the exact same way as the L. 

You are just tilting against reality. Why? Who cares if Fauci lied? You don't have to defend him.

Edited March 14 by gatomontes99

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, Hodad said:

And if you don't trust any data, WTF is the point anyway?

I just showed you a picture of a chart that had the actual data on top and then had blatant lies about the data written below it. "Only 19% (or some such) of covid deaths were among the fully protected group".

Fauci lied about the origin of covid, and then social media banned mention of the BSL4 lab. 

The MSM never told us that Fauci funded GoF on the bat coronaviruses before covid came out. Even I was surprised to find out about that, and I didn't find out right away. Most leftards still don't even know that.

Everyone lied to us about the safety of the jabs, and they even kept lying after we already knew about the severity of vax-injuries.

The jabs started off as "You won't get sick"... no hospital... no ICU... you won't die...

We were led to believe that no one at all was dying of covid after vaxing for a long time. 

There were thousands of multi-vaxed Canadians already dead from covid and eyeball was still saying that there wasn't a single one, and he watches/listens to CBC news hours a day.

We set a record for covid deaths in 2022, by a long shot, and again people like eyeball didn't believe me when I was telling them that deaths were actually up. And the MSM never covered covid deaths in what was by far the biggest year. 

Those god-damned monsters in our health bureaucracy even pretended that children needed the jabs and that was never the case, even for one second. 

 

So after all that, after they got caught lying to us about every single aspect of the covid story from top to bottom, you're just gonna post their little chart like a cultist worm? It's the one thing that we will never have a chance to disprove 100%, because they just keep the deaths by vax status stat to themselves. The gov't of Canada just stopped sharing that data when 90% of covid deaths were among the multi-jabbed, and the chart that they were sharing was intentionally misleading as well. 

They even sucked you into posting a chart, in this thread, saying that covid deaths spiked in August and then went down again in September... 😂 What was the point of that? Did Trump have a big rally or something that month? Did they fabricate a chart to pretend that a single Trump rally caused covid to spike across the whole country?

 

Buddy, of course I don't believe their latest trick: "We have data that we're not sharing, except on this little chart that says exactly what we want it to say." They told 99 lies in a row, got 100% busted, and you believe the 100th thing... because you're a cultist. 

[impartialobserver]

I have two people on ignore. It is mostly a matter of efficiency. No need to occupy my headspace with meaningless noise 

[Hodad]

On 3/14/2025 at 12:33 PM, gatomontes99 said:

Worobely is the only person that has come to that conclusion and he made a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions to come to that conclusion.

One assumption he makes is that Sars-COV-2 was out before it was first detected. That isn't a bad assumption, but he uses that assertion to assume that the people that were first known to have Covid, didn't have a common location. That isn't known. But he uses that to assume they all got it from animals in other areas. Like when he says one person must have gotten it from poultry at the wet market while admitting there is no evidence that poultry at the wet market had Covid at the time.

Let's say his first assumption is correct, Sars-COV-2 was out before it was detected. That doesn't disprove the lab leak theory. If the virus got airborne in the lab, multiple people would have gotten it and transmitted it. That would make it appear as if it had come from multiple places around town.

To prove Sars-COV-2 came from nature, it would have had to have been detected in multiple areas. Not just in Wuhan.

Now, you seem to be very mad that I'm paraphrasing Dr. Fauci. I've ignored the hypocrisy of this long enough. Your side has been blatantly mischaracterizing Trump since day 1. Remember the "blood bath" trope lie? Remember the "very fine people on both sides" lie? There is a huge difference. I'm not changing the meaning or leaving out context. He said that mutations are totally natural and that all evidence points to a natural mutation. I'm not lying.

The funny part is, you are calling me a liar for saying he said it was natural and then defending the lie that it was natural. Which is it?

Your hypocrisy is dripping all over this thread. Clean it up.

Here is an article that details why the virus is likely man made. It is a NYTs article but I grabbed a link that is not behind a pay wall: https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-scientist-explains-covid-lab-escape-theory

Here is a link to a Newsweek article about the Wuhan institute’s Defuse proposal: https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-us-scientists-make-coronaviruses-ecohealth-wiv-drastic-documents-1636532

In summary, the lab had bad procedures, no animal at the wet market ever had Sars-COV-2 and the Wuhan lab proposed working with a virus and mutating it the exact same way as the L. 

You are just tilting against reality. Why? Who cares if Fauci lied? You don't have to defend him.

OFFS, Worobey (who you've never heard of before yet try to dismiss as if you actually know this subject) is not the "only person" to trace the origin to multiple crossovers. There are multiple reports in the linked resource alone. 

Deflect as much as you want, you're trying to change a quote and lying when called out on it. Fauci said the markers are totally consistent with natural spread. The science today still says the same thing. -- The difference is that you want to spin a fiction about him saying something more definitive than that because your entire conspiracy thinking framework is predicated on the idea of a coverup. 

People are welcome to make up whatever theories they like, but speculation without evidence is not going to trump what the research says.

Everyone should care if Fauci lied, but there's no reason to believe that he did. You simply attack him (a man with a stellar record of public service and worldwide respect) because the MAGA cult of ignoramuses decided they didn't like the information he was relaying. 

[Hodad]

On 3/14/2025 at 12:52 PM, WestCanMan said:

I just showed you a picture of a chart that had the actual data on top and then had blatant lies about the data written below it. "Only 19% (or some such) of covid deaths were among the fully protected group".

Fauci lied about the origin of covid, and then social media banned mention of the BSL4 lab. 

The MSM never told us that Fauci funded GoF on the bat coronaviruses before covid came out. Even I was surprised to find out about that, and I didn't find out right away. Most leftards still don't even know that.

Everyone lied to us about the safety of the jabs, and they even kept lying after we already knew about the severity of vax-injuries.

The jabs started off as "You won't get sick"... no hospital... no ICU... you won't die...

We were led to believe that no one at all was dying of covid after vaxing for a long time. 

There were thousands of multi-vaxed Canadians already dead from covid and eyeball was still saying that there wasn't a single one, and he watches/listens to CBC news hours a day.

We set a record for covid deaths in 2022, by a long shot, and again people like eyeball didn't believe me when I was telling them that deaths were actually up. And the MSM never covered covid deaths in what was by far the biggest year. 

Those god-damned monsters in our health bureaucracy even pretended that children needed the jabs and that was never the case, even for one second. 

 

So after all that, after they got caught lying to us about every single aspect of the covid story from top to bottom, you're just gonna post their little chart like a cultist worm? It's the one thing that we will never have a chance to disprove 100%, because they just keep the deaths by vax status stat to themselves. The gov't of Canada just stopped sharing that data when 90% of covid deaths were among the multi-jabbed, and the chart that they were sharing was intentionally misleading as well. 

They even sucked you into posting a chart, in this thread, saying that covid deaths spiked in August and then went down again in September... 😂 What was the point of that? Did Trump have a big rally or something that month? Did they fabricate a chart to pretend that a single Trump rally caused covid to spike across the whole country?

 

Buddy, of course I don't believe their latest trick: "We have data that we're not sharing, except on this little chart that says exactly what we want it to say." They told 99 lies in a row, got 100% busted, and you believe the 100th thing... because you're a cultist. 

Holy shit, you are just an unhinged mess. When you get stumped by information which does not fit your preconceptions you just vomit up a Gish gallop of insanity. Which frankly is not a surprise at this point, but I'm still shocked sometimes by the top-to-bottom crazy. It's not that you misread the numbers, it's that everybody lies all the time to cover up the grand conspiracy for nefarious (but unknowable) purposes! 

[User]

On 3/17/2025 at 2:23 PM, Hodad said:

Holy shit, you are just an unhinged mess. When you get stumped by information which does not fit your preconceptions you just vomit up a Gish gallop of insanity. Which frankly is not a surprise at this point, but I'm still shocked sometimes by the top-to-bottom crazy. It's not that you misread the numbers, it's that everybody lies all the time to cover up the grand conspiracy for nefarious (but unknowable) purposes! 

As opposed to how you just run away and put people on ignore?