Ex-Gays

[Army Guy]

BD:

The military is quite homophobic in regards to open homosexuality: but my reading is that gay encounters are one of those things that happens, but no one talks about much. This has been the case since the time of the Spartans (who actively encouraged homosexuality in the ranks).

Homophobic to the piont, that they turn a blind eye to beatings, Harrasment, etc. Im not saying that gay encounters do not happen, but rather piont out they are rare, even rarer in Combat units. Once a gay man has come out of the closet or is caught by his peers, this indiv is normally removed from the unit for his own safety. As his peers feel betrayed, and thier is no longer the trust needed for Combat.

I'm sure if my wife was on the same battlefield it would be more of a distraction and prove to be actually counter productive.

I dunno: as I alluded to above, some ancient societies promoted homosexuality as a means of bolstering a unit's fighting spirit (the theory being that a man would fight harder for his lover than his mere comrade). I don't see how homosexuality could denude a unit of its morale.

I think you can blame todays society for that, we've been taught growing -up, that gays were sinners by the church, by our parents, by our peers, we've grown up with the thought that being Gay is not exceptable...

Anything can denude a unit of it's moral, finding out the best soldier in the Bn likes men, finding out he is a rapist, child molster, wife beater, taking part of anything that is not exceptable to the normal every day values or morals of Canadians effect the moral of a unit.

Basically, in an exclusively male institution like the military has traditionally been, it doesn't take much to cross the line from brothers-n-arms to lovers.

Other than the fact that person will eventual lose all he has earned, his trust, his good standing within the unit, and eventual his job as he will quit.

There is also a few high phyiscal threat of violence, harrasment, being put out of the circil so to speak.

No it doesn't. As for the policy of drumming people out for being gay, must be a luxury of peace time: in world war two, for instance, the de facto policy was to ignore or deny homosexual behavior unless the individuals involved were otherwise a problem

It's not DND policy, as any government dept it as been polictically corrected, there are strict rules and regulations that are enforced if anyone is caught threatening , harrassing or bulling a Male Gay member..

However even with these rules and regs are not enough to stop the actions of soldiers who refuse to fight or train with a gay member, eventually the indivdual will quit by himself.

So to answer your question again, in the perception of a soldier it does make him gay or bi-sexual either is not exceptable to the other soldiers.

[Army Guy]

Liam:

Would you say that Liberace was straight (or bi) if on one occasion he got really drunk and thought, "I've never kissed a girl -- what the heck? -- let me just see what this is about," when given the chance to sleep with a woman?

my piont is to a soldier once you cross that line be it for a quickie, or long term relationship it does not matter, your branded, and your peers will no longer have trust in your abilities, to soldier. They see it more a piont of an honour code break it , and your done..

So whether your born with it or expermenting, does not matter. you've broken the code and life as you know it will come to a screaching halt, and eventually you will quit as it is not tolerated at this piont of time.

And it may become more acceptable with time but things have not changed in the 26 years i've been serving.

With the exception of Gay women, but even they are not totally free from harassment.

[Black Dog]

Homophobic to the piont, that they turn a blind eye to beatings, Harrasment, etc. Im not saying that gay encounters do not happen, but rather piont out they are rare, even rarer in Combat units. Once a gay man has come out of the closet or is caught by his peers, this indiv is normally removed from the unit for his own safety. As his peers feel betrayed, and thier is no longer the trust needed for Combat.

Maybe that's how it is now. But historically, foxhole trysts are not uncommon. It doesn't have anything to do with being gay necessarily, either. More an "any port in a storm" deal. It's the same as in prison: the individuals can be virulantly homophobic, but circumstances dictate present few outlets for sexual energies.

I think you can blame todays society for that, we've been taught growing -up, that gays were sinners by the church, by our parents, by our peers, we've grown up with the thought that being Gay is not exceptable...

Anything can denude a unit of it's moral, finding out the best soldier in the Bn likes men, finding out he is a rapist, child molster, wife beater, taking part of anything that is not exceptable to the normal every day values or morals of Canadians effect the moral of a unit.

I expect there's some behaviours that are tolerated more than others (I'll wager a guy who beats his wife or a rapist would have a les sbumpy ride than someone who's gay). Homosexuality in particular is seen as an attack on masculinity, hence the often-violent response to it in all-male environments where aggressive masculinity is regarded as the norm.

[betsy]

The military is quite homophobic in regards to open homosexuality: but my reading is that gay encounters are one of those things that happens, but no one talks about much. This has been the case since the time of the Spartans (who actively encouraged homosexuality in the ranks).

From what I've understood about the Spartans, when a boy reaches the age of 10, he is given to a mentor for military training...and this sometimes lead to sexual encounter between boy and mentor.

I wonder about the "actively encouraged homosexuality in the ranks". But then I don't know much about them.

[Liam]

Liam:

Would you say that Liberace was straight (or bi) if on one occasion he got really drunk and thought, "I've never kissed a girl -- what the heck? -- let me just see what this is about," when given the chance to sleep with a woman?

my piont is to a soldier once you cross that line be it for a quickie, or long term relationship it does not matter, your branded, and your peers will no longer have trust in your abilities, to soldier. They see it more a piont of an honour code break it , and your done..

So whether your born with it or expermenting, does not matter. you've broken the code and life as you know it will come to a screaching halt, and eventually you will quit as it is not tolerated at this piont of time.

And it may become more acceptable with time but things have not changed in the 26 years i've been serving.

With the exception of Gay women, but even they are not totally free from harassment.

My point wasn't to limit the conversation to gay or straight contacts within the military -- I think that's a conversation for another thread. I also took back my use of the example of the soldier on leave, drinking too much and having a daliance with a fellow soldier. I do not disagree with you that someone who is outed might face a very short career in the military.

But I think the bulk of my reply was to counter what you said that a single encounter makes someone gay (or at least bi), to which I completely disagree. Someone who is gay can get it up and have sex with a woman. It doesn't make him any less gay. A lesbian can agree to have sex with a man and she might even get pleasure out of it. It doesn't mean she won't go running back to her girlfriend once the encounter is done with. There is more to labeling someone as gay or straight than the simple fact of with whom they sleep. It is an identity thing, and it is not subject to change.