Videospirit Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 10 minutes ago, blackbird said: The government is an enabler. It enables the laws of God to be broken. The purpose of government is to maintain law and order. But when we have a government that allows or makes it easy for people to have abortions for instance, your country has a serious problem. I believe there are about 80,000 to 100,000 abortions per year in Canada. This causes great harm to people in many ways. It puts guilt on the people involved for one thing. It deprives many pre-born humans of their lives. God himself is an enabler. He enables the laws of God to be broken, because we cannot have faith without choice. Do you disparage god for allowing evil to exist? The bible itself is unclear on how serious a sin abortion is, but at the very least it's clear that men punishing Doctors or women or accomplices to the whole process is not something god approves of. So providing support to families, financial security, and just generally creating an environment where they feel no need to obtain an abortion, these are the ways god would approve of preventing abortions. 25 minutes ago, blackbird said: Then there is MAID, another way of killing people, now reaching around 16,000 per year in Canada. It is even in the government system to legalize MAID for people with mental problems. It is gradually being relaxed to include more categories of people. Did you know that the bible glorifies suicide? The bible considers sacrifice to be a good deed, and it considers suicide with a good reason to be a noble sacrifice. Judas suicide after betraying Christ is exalted as Judas achieving Redemption. Assisted suicide is included as well. The bible speaks of a man dying from being hit by a stone, who orders his assistant to strike him dead to prevent his death from being blamed on a woman who threw a stone at him as another noble sacrifice. One whose health is so bad, their mere existence forces them to sloth, and who chooses to sacrifice themselves to not burden their friends and family and free themself from sloth is something the bible considers a noble sacrifice. So while our faith compels us to take action in the case of abortion, it's almost the opposite in the case of suicide. The bible certainly encourages us to help these people live lives without sin where possible, so we still have reason to scrutinize these laws closely, but it's a very Pro-Christian law. 41 minutes ago, blackbird said: We can't forget about the soft-on-crime laws. People released early on parole or bail and go out to commit more crimes and sometimes kill people. This hurts a lot of people as well. Dangerous offenders are constantly being arrested and released very quickly to go out and re-offend again. The abolition of capital punishment for murder even though God's word states there shall be capital punishment for murder. Even serial killers escape it. This also causes endless trauma to families of victims as they must keep going to parole hearings to try to stop the killers from being released. Humanity has realized that they are flawed and unable to carry out god's will of capital punishment on humanity's judgement alone. Many were the innocent, falsely convicted, who were put to death for crimes they did not commit. A terrible sin. Abolishing capital punishment has shielded them from this sin. God is not without mercy himself. Even intentional murder can be redeemed in God's eyes. God himself sentenced Cain to exile rather than capital punishment. Many of Jesus Christ own followers when he walked the earth were criminals. The bible says anyone, even criminals, can obtain redemption. The mortal suffering those who fail to redeem themselves inflict by further sin, is much less important than the souls that are saved of those who are able to redeem themselves. Hard on crime laws go against the teachings of christ. Those who seek redemption should be applauded and welcomed with open arms, rather than judged and scorned for their crimes. Quote
Barquentine Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 1 hour ago, blackbird said: God's revelation to man, the Bible. There's the problem right there. Just because you believe that to be true doesn't make it so. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 SOmebody gave it some thought why is it in our constitution, under freedoms of religion....a couple years ago a guy got his picture taken with a colander on his head because he had started up a new religion...you don't have to believe that is your choice, but that does not make it untrue does it... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Venandi Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barquentine said: There's the problem right there. Just because you believe that to be true doesn't make it so. Does the same logic apply to men who believe they're women or is that different? And if it is different, would you support the idea that I identify as 21 years old and let me join the military again? Surely that's every bit as credible as a man identifying as a woman, more so given my level of fitness actually. Edited February 21 by Venandi 1 Quote
blackbird Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, Videospirit said: God himself is an enabler. He enables the laws of God to be broken, because we cannot have faith without choice. Do you disparage god for allowing evil to exist? Absolutely not. I trust God. God is not an "enabler". That is the wrong word. God permits evil to happen as part of His plan and because he gave man free will or freedom to choose. But everyone will be held accountable for their choices. quote The Bible describes God as holy (Isaiah 6:3), righteous (Psalm 7:11), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and sovereign (Daniel 4:17-25). These attributes tell us the following about God: (1) God is capable of preventing evil, and (2) God desires to rid the universe of evil. So, if both of these are true, why does God allow evil? If God has the power to prevent evil and desires to prevent evil, why does He still allow evil? Perhaps a practical way to look at this question would be to consider some alternative ways people might have God run the world: 1) God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation. Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us and those around us and those who will come after us. In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were God not restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ! unquote For the complete article go to: Why does God allow evil? | GotQuestions.org Quote
blackbird Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, Videospirit said: The bible itself is unclear on how serious a sin abortion is I think it is quite clear in the Bible. The Bible teaches human life begins at conception. There are a number of verses that show that God recognizes the person in the womb. However, I understand the reason why people get an abortion may be complex and we need compassion for those people. The answer is Jesus Christ. " God’s Creation and Purpose God is the Creator of all that exists, and His purpose for each life reflects His divine plan. From the moment of conception, we are intricately designed to serve a role within God’s bigger story. Each person has inherent value, shaped by the Creator’s hand. Recognizing that we are called to let God’s plan unfold, we can embrace the unique circumstances surrounding every life, knowing that He has a purpose in each situation. When discussing abortion, we should remember that every unborn child is a part of God’s grand narrative, deserving of love, care, and protection." 40+ Bible Verses About Abortion (Explained) - Explaining The Bible Quote
blackbird Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, Videospirit said: Did you know that the bible glorifies suicide? The bible considers sacrifice to be a good deed, and it considers suicide with a good reason to be a noble sacrifice. I think you are grossly misinterpreting the Bible. The Bible does at times record evil things that people did as part of history of what happened. But it is a huge mistake to assume because it is recorded something evil or bad took place in the narrative, that somehow God approves of it. That is not the case. Many evil things are recorded in the Bible that happened, but they are there just to give a full story of the history of events. God does not condone or approve of everything that happened. Quote
Barquentine Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 2 hours ago, Venandi said: Does the same logic apply to men who believe they're women or is that different? And if it is different, would you support the idea that I identify as 21 years old and let me join the military again? Surely that's every bit as credible as a man identifying as a woman, more so given my level of fitness actually. The difference is, wrong or right, they're not saying anyone who does not agree with them will burn in hellfire for eternity. That's a Christianity thing. Quote
blackbird Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 (edited) 16 hours ago, Barquentine said: The difference is, wrong or right, they're not saying anyone who does not agree with them will burn in hellfire for eternity. That's a Christianity thing. In 45 years as a Bible believer who attended a number of churches, I have never heard anyone say what you are saying, that if anyone who does not agree with them, they will burn in hellfire. That sounds a bit harsh. That is a kind of dark portrayal of Christianity. Generally people try to be compassionate and love thy neighbour is what they are called to do. Being harsh does not accomplish anything. The truth is every human is a corrupt, fallen sinner and needs to be born again or receive a new nature by faith in Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches every sin is equally serious in God's eyes and we need to acknowledge that. That is why everyone needs to hear the gospel and become a believer. The Bible says even looking upon a woman in a lustful manner is a serious sin. There are countless ways people sin. The Bible calls everyone to repent and turn to Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior. That's what counts. God loves everyone and no matter what they've done, they can be forgiven and saved. Being trapped in sin is like an addiction and a kind of slavery. The gospel is a positive message that sets people free. It brings hope to a suffering world. Edited February 22 by blackbird Quote
Videospirit Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 2 hours ago, blackbird said: I think you are grossly misinterpreting the Bible. The Bible does at times record evil things that people did as part of history of what happened. But it is a huge mistake to assume because it is recorded something evil or bad took place in the narrative, that somehow God approves of it. That is not the case. Many evil things are recorded in the Bible that happened, but they are there just to give a full story of the history of events. God does not condone or approve of everything that happened. And I think you are grossly misinterpreting the Bible. John 15:13 KJV: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You would claim this verse is "Merely an evil thing that god does not approve of." Quote
Videospirit Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, Barquentine said: The difference is, wrong or right, they're not saying anyone who does not agree with them will burn in hellfire for eternity. That's a Christianity thing. It's certainly a belief some Christians hold. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 KJV Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; I interpret to be an explanation of annihilationism. If you are sent to hell, your soul will eventually be destroyed. You certainly won't have eternal life. But being denied God's grace is an eternal punishment, you just won't exist anymore to experience it, and god will not undestroy your soul at some point in the future and bring you back to life, you're gone forever. Christians do teach that the only way to obtain Salvation is through faith in Jesus and that their souls will go to hell after they die if they don't receive Salvation. It's not so strict as all sinners will go to hell though. Believing in other faiths or atheism are sins, but sins can be forgiven. If you have any faith in God at all you might still be able to receive Salvation. Edited February 22 by Videospirit Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, Videospirit said: And I think you are grossly misinterpreting the Bible. John 15:13 KJV: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You would claim this verse is "Merely an evil thing that god does not approve of." Wow! That is really crazy. I would claim nothing of the kind. Edited February 22 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Videospirit said: It's not so strict as all sinners will go to hell though. Believing in other faiths or atheism are sins, but sins can be forgiven. If you have any faith in God at all you might still be able to receive Salvation. Wow again! You have invented your own religion. Nothing to do with the Bible. Quote
Barquentine Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 3 hours ago, Videospirit said: Believing in other faiths or atheism are sins See what I mean. Quote
Videospirit Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 1 hour ago, blackbird said: Wow again! You have invented your own religion. Nothing to do with the Bible. And again you have denied the bible. Luke 23:39-43 KJV: 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. God is the final arbiter of who gets into heaven, but even someone who mocks christ the hour before he dies who repents just before death can enter heaven. There's no security in that kind of thinking though, so I don't recommend it. What if you die suddenly without warning? Quote
Videospirit Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 8 minutes ago, Barquentine said: See what I mean. Sort of. It's a strange complaint to make though. If I was about to walk into a river thinking myself fine, and a local warned me that the river is full of piranha and I was able to stop myself from entering I would be quite grateful. Fundamentally, a good Christian warning others about hell is not some way to disgrace or humiliate them or to win an argument, it is to give them warning out of love that what they are about to do is harming themself. It's not something worthy of criticism. 1 Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 11 hours ago, blackbird said: If you have any faith in God at all you might still be able to receive Salvation. The fallacy of this statement is there are all kinds of false gods in various religions. John 14:6 According to John 14:6 KJV, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." That eliminates all other false gods. Many people around the world believe in a "god", but do not believe in Jesus. The verse says Jesus is the only way to heaven. Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 (edited) 15 hours ago, Barquentine said: The difference is, wrong or right, they're not saying anyone who does not agree with them will burn in hellfire for eternity. That's a Christianity thing. It is the way things are said that is also important. Some things can be said with sincere concern for someone and sometimes people are not very wise on how they speak. " 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. " John 3:36 KJV That is just the simple truth. If you see someone about to walk over a cliff or into a dangerous situation, would you not want to warn them? I have tried to be gentle with people, but often people don't care. They simple have closed minds and will hear nothing. Many people will not listen and it may fall on deaf ears, but we don't know that beforehand. Every situation is different. Edited February 22 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 (edited) 10 hours ago, Videospirit said: And again you have denied the bible. False. I am trying to figure out what you are talking about. Where or how have I denied the Bible. You make wild claims without any explanation. You need to calm down a bit and try to avoid harsh accusations constantly. Edited February 22 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 10 hours ago, Videospirit said: God is the final arbiter of who gets into heaven, but even someone who mocks christ the hour before he dies who repents just before death can enter heaven. I never said anything against this. So I am not sure why you are claiming I am denying the Bible. You make wild accusations without any basis or explanation. Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 14 hours ago, Videospirit said: You would claim this verse is "Merely an evil thing that god does not approve of." False. I would not claim a verse is an evil thing. You need to think more before commenting. Quote
Barquentine Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 47 minutes ago, blackbird said: " 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. " John 3:36 KJV That is just the simple truth YOUR "simple truth", emphasis on "simple". You just don't get it and never will. You're free to believe what you want, just stop trying to bend everybody else to your beliefs and superstitions. 10 hours ago, Videospirit said: If I was about to walk into a river thinking myself fine, and a local warned me that the river is full of piranha and I was able to stop myself from entering I would be quite grateful. Stupid analogy. Piranhas are real. Your beliefs are just that - beliefs. Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 51 minutes ago, Barquentine said: just stop trying to bend everybody else to your beliefs and superstitions. While you post on the forum trying to convince people to believe what you say. Quote
Videospirit Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 2 hours ago, blackbird said: The fallacy of this statement is there are all kinds of false gods in various religions. John 14:6 According to John 14:6 KJV, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." That eliminates all other false gods. Many people around the world believe in a "god", but do not believe in Jesus. The verse says Jesus is the only way to heaven. Than you misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about all other gods, I was talking about Christ. I could have been more clear though. Even if you practice a different religion, if you also accept Christ into your heart God may choose to forgive you for the sin of having another god before him. 2 hours ago, blackbird said: I never said anything against this. So I am not sure why you are claiming I am denying the Bible. You make wild accusations without any basis or explanation. Fundamentally based on a misunderstanding. You rejected my claim that individuals who don't perfectly follow Christ can still potentially get into heaven and said it was a made up religion not based on the bible at all. If you had truly believed that it would be rejecting the bible. But it was actually a misunderstanding on your part that didn't understand what I was trying to say. 2 hours ago, blackbird said: False. I would not claim a verse is an evil thing. You need to think more before commenting. The actions described in the verse are what you called an evil thing not the verse itself. 19 hours ago, blackbird said: I think you are grossly misinterpreting the Bible. The Bible does at times record evil things that people did as part of history of what happened. But it is a huge mistake to assume because it is recorded something evil or bad took place in the narrative, that somehow God approves of it. That is not the case. Many evil things are recorded in the Bible that happened, but they are there just to give a full story of the history of events. God does not condone or approve of everything that happened. .You are claiming that "The greatest act of love." is just one of the many evil things recorded in the bible for the sake of telling the full history of events, and that got does not approve of the greatest act of love. Quote
blackbird Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 48 minutes ago, Videospirit said: You are claiming that "The greatest act of love." is just one of the many evil things recorded in the bible for the sake of telling the full history of events, and that got does not approve of the greatest act of love. I am not sure what you are referring to. When I said some things are recorded as historical events and they don't mean God condones them, I was talking about only certain events, not everything that happened. In ancient near eastern times for example, men often had multiple wives and concubines. That was how they lived in those days. It doesn't mean God approves of it. Quote
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