Trump says he and Putin have agreed to begin ‘negotiations’ on ending Ukraine war

[robosmith]

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Yet another Libbie dream dashed.

Poor Libbies. I guess you'll just have to deal with peace.

And you guys are going to have to deal with a greater Putin monopoly on gas production.

Fortunately I haven't even had to turn on my furnace this year, and will have a heat pump and solar for next year.

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Ukraine

And anyone with half a brain that's figured out Donnie's a lying, untrastworthy c*nt.
Already decided they'll give up territory and that he, not NATO allies has decided they can't join.
TIme to throw the USA out of NATO.

Unfortunately, any NATO member can reject a new member. That's why it took a while to approve Sweden.

[robosmith]

49 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

And so...if the USA halts funding for the Ukraine, who's gonna pick up the tab? Germany? France? England?

This is coming to its logical end.

And you're proving you;re nothing but coward surrender monkey.

48 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Let 'em. They won't though. Without the US money and military presence, Europe is a sitting duck.

This is true.

Gee...is NATO beginning to crack and fall apart?

You better hope NOT, cause without NATO, Canada is a sitting duck. 

[Radiorum]

Over fifty nations are contributing to Ukraine defence. In terms of security contribution as a percent of GDP, the US ranks tenth, behind Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Denmark Norway and the UK.

They all understand that global stability is as stake. Now, if the US is only concerned with their own interests, then they need to understand the consequences of a Putin win. The world markets would be thrown into chaos. Huge impact on US interest.

• The war has had an outsized and destabilizing impact on Europe’s economy, impacting America’s economic interests given Europe remains one of our most trusted trading partners. With $1 trillion in annual U.S. trade with the continent, stable European markets are critical for the exports of American companies and workers with 1 in 5 U.S. jobs depending on international trade. Europe also remains America’s fifth largest market for agricultural exports from America’s heartland and beyond.

https://www.usglc.org/the-importance-of-u-s-assistance-to-ukraine/

[User]

27 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Over fifty nations are contributing to Ukraine defence. In terms of security contribution as a percent of GDP, the US ranks tenth, behind Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Denmark Norway and the UK.

When Ukraine is getting total $$$ amounts for their defense and nation function while under war, do you think they would rather have the US at tenth based on GDP in total $$$ or Estonia total $$$?

ROFL

29 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

They all understand that global stability is as stake. Now, if the US is only concerned with their own interests, then they need to understand the consequences of a Putin win. The world markets would be thrown into chaos. Huge impact on US interest.

Is "global stability" better with a Ukraine in an endless war with escalations or with a peace and no more war?

 

45 minutes ago, robosmith said:

And you're proving you;re nothing but coward surrender monkey.

Says the guy hiding from me like a coward on a forum. LOL

 

[Nationalist]

49 minutes ago, robosmith said:

And you guys are going to have to deal with a greater Putin monopoly on gas production.

Fortunately I haven't even had to turn on my furnace this year, and will have a heat pump and solar for next year.

Unfortunately, any NATO member can reject a new member. That's why it took a while to approve Sweden.

Be serious. Russian pipelines are already in place and the gas and oil is cheaper.

I just put a heat pump in my euro house last year. Gas is way too expensive and coal is being phased out.

And it looks like the USA will reject Ukraine for the foreseeable future.

[Radiorum]

4 minutes ago, User said:

When Ukraine is getting total $$$ amounts for their defense and nation function while under war, do you think they would rather have the US at tenth based on GDP in total $$$ or Estonia total $$$?

I never said the US contribution wasn't important. Clearly, it is very important. My point is that they are not in it alone, and there are many countries doing what they can.

But it would be a grave error for the US to give up their leadership role in the world, to give up their global place as the protector of democracy. We can't let autocratic rulers have their way. The consequences to the world would be severe.

 

7 minutes ago, User said:

Is "global stability" better with a Ukraine in an endless war with escalations or with a peace and no more war?

Well, we can't make the wild assumption that this war is "endless." Sure, everyone wants peace, but if you think appeasing Putin will lead to "peace and no more war' you are wrong. 

Yes, global stability outranks the imperialist design of Putin. Besides, I always understood that it is best to stand up to a bully.

[User]

17 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I never said the US contribution wasn't important. Clearly, it is very important. My point is that they are not in it alone, and there are many countries doing what they can.

You were trying to downplay the US contribution based on a comparison to GDP. 

To your point though, if all those other countries are in this, surely Ukraine will be just fine without US support?

18 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

But it would be a grave error for the US to give up their leadership role in the world, to give up their global place as the protector of democracy. We can't let autocratic rulers have their way. The consequences to the world would be severe.

Give up leadership? This whole thread is based on that leadership. 

19 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Well, we can't make the wild assumption that this war is "endless." Sure, everyone wants peace, but if you think appeasing Putin will lead to "peace and no more war' you are wrong. 

OK, so how does this war end then? What is the alternative to negotiating a peace? 

20 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Yes, global stability outranks the imperialist design of Putin. Besides, I always understood that it is best to stand up to a bully.

So, you want NATO to declare war against Russia then?

[robosmith]

24 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Be serious. Russian pipelines are already in place and the gas and oil is cheaper.

But Putin has not taken control of Ukraine's gas reserves yet. Duh

 

[Radiorum]

53 minutes ago, User said:

You were trying to downplay the US contribution based on a comparison to GDP. 

No, I wasn't. That's your interpretation, and it is a misreading of my posts.

54 minutes ago, User said:

To your point though, if all those other countries are in this, surely Ukraine will be just fine without US support?

No, the US has a very important role to play. It seems, though, that Trump may abandon his responsibility to the world.

 

55 minutes ago, User said:

OK, so how does this war end then? What is the alternative to negotiating a peace? 

 

55 minutes ago, User said:

So, you want NATO to declare war against Russia then?

 

The right and just end would have Ukraine reclaiming all their territories. Unfortunately, this seems unlikely.

Yes, I would supports troops sent to contain the madman Putin.

We have fought and died for what was right before. This is one of those times.

if the Ukrainian authorities are forced to cede land in exchange for peace, Vladimir Putin’s entire invasion will be legitimized and his imperial appetite will only grow. The West may succeed in securing a temporary respite at Ukraine’s expense, but the threat of an expansionist Russia will remain and the ultimate cost of stopping Putin will only rise.

Forcing Ukraine to cede land will only increase Putin’s imperial appetite

[User]

4 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

No, I wasn't. That's your interpretation, and it is a misreading of my posts.

LOL, sure. 

4 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

No, the US has a very important role to play. It seems, though, that Trump may abandon his responsibility to the world.

He is the United States President, his responsibility is to the American people. 

5 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

The right and just end would have Ukraine reclaiming all their territories. Unfortunately, this seems unlikely.

Yes, I would supports troops sent to contain the madman Putin.

We have fought and died for what was right before. This is one of those times.

No, it would be all out war. That is what you want and if that is what you want, your position is beyond radical. Also... are you even an American, because what country are you from that will be fighting this war you want?

At any given moment there are atrocities all over the globe happening. Why is it you want to stand up to Putin and not everyone else? Should we declare war in Venezuela? Against Turkey? Azerbaijan? Somalia? Yemen? Gaza? Lebanon? Iran? Sudan? Congo? Ethiopia?

Do we declare war and send out the military all across the globe all at once or just hope we have enough left over after the war with Putin?

 

[Radiorum]

8 minutes ago, User said:

He is the United States President, his responsibility is to the American people. 

And what it stands for - which is freedom and democracy. 

From the third inaugural address of FDR given in January, 1941:

To us there has come a time, in the midst of swift happenings, to pause for a moment and take stock- to recall what our place in history has been, and to rediscover what we are and what we may be. If we do not, we risk the real peril of isolation, the real peril of inaction….

The destiny of America was proclaimed in words of prophecy spoken by our first President in his first Inaugural in 1789-words almost directed, it would seem, to this year of 1941: "The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered. . . deeply, . . . finally, staked on the experiment intrusted to the hands of the American people."

If you and I in this later day lose that sacred fire—if we let it be smothered with doubt and fear- then we shall reject the destiny which Washington strove so valiantly and so triumphantly to establish. The preservation of the spirit and faith of the Nation does, and will, furnish the highest justification for every sacrifice that we may make in the cause of national defense.

In the face of great perils never before encountered, our strong purpose is to protect and to perpetuate the integrity of democracy.

For this we muster the spirit of America, and the faith of America.

We do not retreat. We are not content to stand still. As Americans, we go forward, in the service of our country, by the will of God.

 

 

15 minutes ago, User said:

That is what you want and if that is what you want, your position is beyond radical.

That's just silly. I don't want war. But let's put the blame for this where it belongs - on Putin.

16 minutes ago, User said:

Why is it you want to stand up to Putin and not everyone else?

Because he has the will, the resources and the power to destabilize the entire world

 

[User]

1 minute ago, Radiorum said:

And what it stands for - which is freedom and democracy. 

Where is the part where he declared war on everyone?

[Radiorum]

18 minutes ago, User said:

Where is the part where he declared war on everyone?

You are familiar with WW2?

[herbie]

Hear the "Peace at any price" cry of the surrender monkeys.

21st Century version of the Munich Conference, affected party not invited. Flies home waving paper guaranteeing peace in our time.

Told ya' it would be like this. Zero political savvy, all the ethics of a skip tracer.

[User]

32 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

You are familiar with WW2?

You are missing some key timelines. 

16 minutes ago, herbie said:

Hear the "Peace at any price" cry of the surrender monkeys.

21st Century version of the Munich Conference, affected party not invited. Flies home waving paper guaranteeing peace in our time.

Told ya' it would be like this. Zero political savvy, all the ethics of a skip tracer.

No one is stopping you Canadians from fighting. 

[herbie]

Or claiming all the aid we send as part of our defence budget either.

[Nationalist]

13 hours ago, robosmith said:

But Putin has not taken control of Ukraine's gas reserves yet. Duh

 

What? They don't need Ukraine's gas.