Make America great again means more just, not more rich

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Gaétan said:

Believing Jesus with all your heart means having an unshakeable faith in him as your Lord and Savior. It means surrendering to his will and living your life according to his teachings. It means putting your trust in him above all else, knowing he will never lead you astray. It also consists in committing to living for Him and following His teachings.

Just wondering.  Have you followed all His teachings?  Do you know if you have eternal life?  Are you saved and on your way to heaven?  

[Gaétan]

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Just wondering.  Have you followed all His teachings?  Do you know if you have eternal life?  Are you saved and on your way to heaven?  

Look:

Mk 16.12 After these things he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country. 13And they went back and told the rest, but they did not believe them.

The Great Commission

14Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 The key word is the word heart, Christ reproaches them for the hardness of their hearts, to believe means to believe with one's heart which means to do what he has taught. As an example, Trump, if he believed with his heart, he would sell what he owns and give his money to the poor, he would do what Christ commanded, he doesn't do, he doesn't believe. He beleive with his libs, not with his heart. to beleive means nothing if you don't put in practice what he taught, it is just something you say. You beleive with your heart, not with your head.

 

Edited February 16 by Gaétan

[blackbird]

26 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

Look:

Mk 16.12 After these things he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country. 13And they went back and told the rest, but they did not believe them.

The Great Commission

14Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 The key word is the word heart, Christ reproaches them for the hardness of their hearts, to believe means to believe with one's heart which means to do what he has taught. As an example, Trump, if he believed with his heart, he would sell what he owns and give his money to the poor, he would do what Christ commanded, he doesn't do, he doesn't believe. He beleive with his libs, not with his heart. to beleive means nothing if you don't put in practice what he taught, it is just something you say. You beleive with your heart, not with your head.

 

You didn't answer the question.   Are you saved and on your way to heaven?   If so, can you explain on what basis?

[Gaétan]

19 hours ago, blackbird said:

You didn't answer the question.   Are you saved and on your way to heaven?   If so, can you explain on what basis?

I don't know if i am saved, a jinn told me i wasn't many years ago, you have to be ready any time but right now i don't know. You have to love your neighbor as yourself or repent of your sins, did i loved my neighbor as myself all the time and if not did i repent of all my sins, i don't have this information like i possibly comitted sins that i don't accept others commit to me and as i don't know i didn't repent of it.

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, Gaétan said:

I don't know if i am saved, a jinn told me i wasn't many years ago, you have to be ready any time but right now i don't know. You have to love your neighbor as yourself or repent of your sins, did i loved my neighbor as myself all the time and if not did i repent of all my sins, i don't have this information like i possibly comitted sins that i don't accept others commit to me and as i don't know i didn't repent of it.

If you would like to be saved right now, be forgiven completely for all of your sins, and have eternal life right now, you can.  You can have assurance that you are saved and have eternal life.  I can tell you how to do it.  Are you willing Gaetan?

[Gaétan]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

If you would like to be saved right now, be forgiven completely for all of your sins, and have eternal life right now, you can.  You can have assurance that you are saved and have eternal life.  I can tell you how to do it.  Are you willing Gaetan?

Thank you but Jesus Christ taught me how to do it. If you call a guy a fool and you don't like to be called a fool, you don't love your neighbor as yourself, but I don't think that this kind of injustice prevents you from having a more comfortable home when you die, like adultery. I have read some of your messages on this forum which prove that you are guided by injustice and therefore badly advised by your teachers, do not trust just anyone but Jesus Christ himself.

Edited February 18 by Gaétan

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Gaétan said:

Thank you but Jesus Christ taught me how to do it. If you call a guy a fool and you don't like to be called a fool, you don't love your neighbor as yourself, but I don't think that this kind of injustice prevents you from having a more comfortable home when you die, like adultery. I have read some of your messages on this forum which prove that you are guided by injustice and therefore badly advised by your teachers, do not trust just anyone but Jesus Christ himself.

I am far from perfect but Jesus Christ saved me by his grace 45 years ago one night.  No Christian is perfect;  only Jesus Christ is perfect.  But when you become a child of God by grace through faith your sins are forgiven forever and you receive eternal life.

You were wise to admit you don't know if you are saved.  But you can know.  There is a way.  That way is to trust in Jesus Christ.  You must admit you are wrong, renounce the false teaching that you can work or earn your way to heaven.   Then accept Jesus Christ as your only Lord and Savior.

"5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"   Titus 3:5 KJV

You see that?  Only the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost will save you.  You must be born again.  

" 16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "  John 3:16 KJV

Edited February 18 by blackbird

[herbie]

more just, not more rich

Jesus Christ was anything but a Magatt. They believe richer=more just.

[Gaétan]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

 

You see that?  Only the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost will save you.  You must be born again.  

" 16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "  John 3:16 KJV

I do not interpret these words as you do, to be born again means to die in this life and to become aware of one's life in the other world and the Holy Spirit are the power animals of shamanism who advise and protect you. To believe in Jesus means to observe his commands otherwise it as no sense.

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, Gaétan said:

To believe in Jesus means to observe his commands otherwise it as no sense.

Nobody can observe his commands perfectly.  You are confusing faith with doing good works.   I quoted verses to you to show you that we are not justified by works, (Eph. 2:8, 9) but you ignored it.  You are ignoring what the Bible says in countless places or misinterpreting it.  One must be born again.  One becomes a child of God by faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for his sins.  

It is obvious you do not understand the gospel or what the Bible teaches about salvation or justification.  You are in a very dangerous position.  You need to start paying attention to what the Bible says.  You are cherry picking one or two verses and claiming that is what salvation means but that contradicts over a hundred other verses.  You have to interpret the Bible in the light of what many other verses are saying.   They say salvation is by faith.  The Apostle Paul teaches in Romans, Ephesians, Galatians that faith and works are two different things.  Faith is believing.  Works are doing something.  Therefore it is wrong to say faith is works.  One must become a child of God by the new birth before he can do good works for God. You must become a child of God by being born again.  The Apostle Paul says in different places that salvation is not by works.  Read chapters 3, 4, and 5 of Romans which the Apostle Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  

You also talk as if the only God-inspired part of the Bible is what it records as Jesus' direct words in the gospels.  That is your first mistake.  Do you understand Jesus is the Son of God?  Some Bibles print Jesus' words He spoke while on earth in red.  That doesn't mean the rest of the Bible is any less inspired by God.  Jesus inspired men to write the whole Bible. The whole Bible is inspired by God.  The Bible says in came from God in many places and ways.  The Apostle Paul wrote his Epistles under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  

It even says "16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."  2 Timothy 3:16 KJV

Are you willing to accept that the Bible is written by men inspired by God?

Edited February 19 by blackbird

[josej]

 I believe that salvation is attained not only by faith but also by works. 

[User]

On 2/17/2025 at 12:08 PM, Gaétan said:

I don't know if i am saved, a jinn told me i wasn't many years ago, you have to be ready any time but right now i don't know. You have to love your neighbor as yourself or repent of your sins, did i loved my neighbor as myself all the time and if not did i repent of all my sins, i don't have this information like i possibly comitted sins that i don't accept others commit to me and as i don't know i didn't repent of it.

This is silly. If your position is that you must be perfect at the moment of your death... that is neither logical nor scriptural. 

Biblical teachings do assure us that with our faith in Christ we are saved. No where does it say we must be worried our whole life that the moment before death we had better be perfect. 

 

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, josej said:

 I believe that salvation is attained not only by faith but also by works. 

Read what I said to Gaiten.  Do you read and study the Bible?  Do you believe the Bible is God's inspired word?  The only pure inspired Bible in English is the King James Version or Authorized Version, not the NKJV which is corrupt.  You may be able to find similar wording in verses I quoted in other English versions but I would not recommend them.  They are not trustworthy. 

The Apostle Paul's epistles to the Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians refute what you said.

" 8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. "  Ephesians 2:8, 9 KJV

Edited February 19 by blackbird

[Videospirit]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

Read what I said to Gaiten.  Do you read and study the Bible?  Do you believe the Bible is God's inspired word?  The only pure inspired Bible in English is the King James Version or Authorized Version, not the NKJV which is corrupt.  You may be able to find similar wording in verses I quoted in other English versions but I would not recommend them.  They are not trustworthy. 

The Apostle Paul's epistles to the Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians refute what you said.

" 8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. "  Ephesians 2:8, 9 KJV

How can anyone believe to act in Faith of Jesus Christ when he refuses to do works in faith of Jesus Christ.

The importance of faith is the motive. The importance of faith does not make the works unnecessary. You don't do good for the sake of checking a "Must do good deeds to get into heaven." objective off a bucket list. You don't do good deeds to boast about them. You must do good deeds solely because your Faith compels you to do good deeds. But if you have the means to do so, you must do good deeds because that is the only way to faithfully follow the teaching of Jesus Christ

Arguing anything else is to claim that you don't need faith to have faith.

You must believe the words of Jesus to believe in Jesus.

Edited February 20 by Videospirit

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, Videospirit said:

How can anyone believe to act in Faith of Jesus Christ when he refuses to do works in faith of Jesus Christ.

Your wording is difficult to  understand.  If one refuses to do works, that is another matter.  It might raise a question as to whether he has been born again. But what the Apostle is talking about in these following verses is not speaking about good works as being a part of salvation.  Salvation comes first and good works follow.  That is what is clear from what Paul is saying.  They are two separate subjects according to what Paul says.

I was talking about what the inspired KJV Bible says about salvation.  The Bible makes it clear that salvation is entirely by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross.  

Examine Ephesians ch2 vs 8, 9 KJV

"8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9  Not of works, lest any man should boast."   Ephesians 2: 8, 9 KJV

You see clearly how one is saved.  Verse 8 clearly says one is saved by grace through faith.

Then verse 9 says not of works, lest any man should boast.

So in this verse the Apostle Paul makes it clear salvation is not of works.  One must become a child of God or servant of God by receiving the new nature.  It says that is a gift of God.  Break these two verses down into their component parts to get a clear understanding of what God is saying here.

It is vital to understand.  A person receives the gift of salvation in a moment of time.  The person receives the gift from God.  He cannot earn it.  Once he receives this gift, he has a new nature. 

Then as a new creature in Christ, he can do good works for God.  That is what these two verses are saying.  The Apostle is saying "not of works".  In other words, he person cannot earn this gift by doing good works.

Now look at another verse in Titus.
"5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"   Titus 3:5 KJV

Again the Apostle Paul makes it clear in the first part of this verse, we are not saved by "works of righteousness".  But we are saved "according to his mercy,, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost".  

The Oxford Pocket Dictionary defines the word grace as meaning a favour or concession not claimable as a right.  Nobody can claim to receive salvation by their good works or deeds then.  If it were by doing good works, it would not be by God's grace (or favour).   

This proves salvation is not a lifelong process of doing certain good works.  If it were by works, then it could not be by God's grace.  Works and grace are not the same thing at all.  Salvation happens at a point in time. 

The Apostle Paul makes it clear also in Romans ch3, 4, and 5.

Read chapter 3 in Romans.  Verses 9 to 20 speak about the fact "there is none righteous, no, not one".  It concludes in verse 20 saying "20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."   Romans 3:20 KJV

Then verses 21 to 31 explain again how one receives the righteousness of God without the deeds of the law (good works).  See verse 28.  This is talking about how one receives salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice.   Chapter 4 gives the example of how Abraham was saved by faith and not by works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20 by blackbird

[Videospirit]

Some people seem to be getting the word salvation confused with "entrance to heaven."

All Salvation is, is knowledge of Christ. You cannot know christ from works, it can only be done by faith.

So someone who has no knowledge of god cannot follow god's will. Any works done will lack faith, so no matter how saintly seeming their life is, they won't get into heaven. It fundamentally changes your nature from one who does not know god's will to one who knows god's will.

But salvation is not a ticket to heaven. Those who have received salvation can still be condemned. It's not until death that humans are judged. Salvation merely gives you the ability to follow god's will, for you have knowledge of it. You still need to actually follow god's will to get into heaven.

On 2/19/2025 at 1:12 PM, blackbird said:

Read what I said to Gaiten. 

This is what I was responding to when I quoted you however. I wasn't talking about salvation in my post. I was talking about faith.

Gaiten claimed that one who has salvation but does not believe in the need to do works does not have faith. Your words to Gaiten suggest that the bible verses explaining that doing good deeds does not grant one salvation invalidate the need to do works. This is a deeply troubling statement for you to make regardless of whether it was unintentional or a belief you hold. 

The bible clearly states that god wills for us to do works. If you reject that you do not accept the teachings of Christ. One who has the means to do works but refuses to do so is willfully sinning. One who has the means to do works, but does not feel works are required is rejecting god and has no faith.

Edited February 20 by Videospirit

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

But salvation is not a ticket to heaven. Those who have received salvation can still be condemned.

That is not correct.  What you are saying would destroy a believer's peace.  It would put the fear of eternal perdition in any believer.  That is not the kind of God believers have and is not what the Bible teaches.

I am not sure what you have studied or what you based your claim on.  There are a number of good sources of Bible doctrine.  It is overly simplistic to just quote one or two verses.  There is really a lot to it.  This book, Major Bible Themes, was written by Lewis Sperry Chafer, who lived in the early half of the 20th century and was a co-founder of Dallas Theological Seminary.  He had eminent qualification as a professor of systematic theology.  He presents in his book the dispensational view.  Other views such as the Reformed, Presbyterian, or Calvinist theology also support the eternal security of believers.  Check out the Westminster Confessions of Faith, larger catechism.

The book Major Bible Themes by Lewis Sperry Chafer has a very good chapter on Security.  I will quote a part of it but you will have to go to their website to read the rest of the chapter to get a complete picture.

"Chapter 33 - Security This Chapter is concerned with the Biblical answer to the question, "Could a person once saved ever be lost again?" Since fear of eternal perdition must destroy the believer's peace, and since to suppose that one once saved might be lost again, of necessity, limits the saving grace of God as it is in Christ, the subject of this Chapter is of utmost importance. The claim that one who is once saved might be lost again is usually based on a form of rationalism which, emphasizing certain passages of Scripture, does not consider sufficiently the testimony of all the Word of God. Concerning this question, church creeds have taken opposing sides; but it will be observed that belief or disbelief in the security of all who are saved is more personal than creedal. While the great body of New Testament Scriptures which bear directly or indirectly on this question declare the believer to be secure, there are upwards of twenty-five passages which have been cited in evidence by those who maintain that the believer is insecure. It is certain that an individual could not be at the same time both secure and insecure. Therefore, of these two bodies of Scripture, one body of Scripture must of necessity conform to the other. From careful study it will be seen that the so-called "insecurity passages" are not such in reality, that they do not oppose the positive doctrine of security, and that they seem to teach insecurity only when they are misunderstood or misapplied. Certain, of these do not apply to the Christian since they belong to another dispensation (Matthew 24:13; Ezekiel 33:7, 8; Matthew 18:23-35; 25:30). Other passages refer only to false and unregenerate teachers of the "last days" (1 Timothy 4:1, 2; 2 Peter 2:1-22; Jude 1:17-19). One passage describes that which is merely a moral reformation (Luke 11:24-26). Several of these Scriptures bear on the important fact that Christian profession is justified by its fruits. Salvation which is of God will, under normal conditions, prove itself to be such by its own fruits (1 John 3:10; John 8:31; 15:6; 2 Peter 1:10; James 2:14-26; 1 Corinthians 15:1, 2; Hebrews 3:6, 14). In addition to this, there are certain passages that contain warnings which, when rightly interpreted, do not imply the insecurity of the believer under grace. Jews are warned that since their sacrifices have ceased they must turn to Christ or be lost (Hebrews 10:26), in like manner, unsaved Jews as well as Gentiles are warned against "falling away" from the illuminating, converting work of the Spirit (Hebrews 6:4-9). So, also, unspiritual Jews are warned that they will not be received into the coming kingdom (Matthew 25:1-13), and Gentiles are given a corporate warning which has no reference to the individual believer (Romans 11:21). Again, the one who is saved and safe may lose his reward (1 Corinthians 3:15; Colossians 1:21-23), and be disapproved concerning his service for Christ (1 Corinthians 9:27). Likewise, he may lose his fellowship because of sin (1 John 1:6), and he may be chastened of God (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; John 15:2; 1 John 5:16). And, finally, it is possible for the believer to "fall from grace" (Galatians 5:1-4), which, however, is never accomplished by sinning; for the Christian falls from grace only when he turns from his true liberty under grace to the bondage of the law. The positive doctrine of security rests upon an extended body of truth in which no less than twelve unchangeable facts of divine grace and its accomplishments are declared; any one of which alone would suffice to form an adequate basis for perfect rest and peace."

For the rest of the chapter (33) go to:

Themes.pdf

 

 

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

Your words to Gaiten suggest that the bible verses explaining that doing good deeds does not grant one salvation invalidate the need to do works.

Not correct.  I am not sure what words you are talking about.  I was simply pointing out that salvation is totally separate from works.  The historic Protestant belief since the Reformation is that salvation is by faith alone and I explained that in previous posts and explained the verses.  When one starts talking about works being a part of it in any way, then it is no longer salvation by faith alone.  I never said works were not important.  But they are subsequent to one becoming a child of God and have nothing to do with being saved.  All that is explained in the book Major Bible Themes I quoted above.   

I never said becoming a Christian invalidate the need to do works, but the works do not save anyone.  Works are important of course, but the works are done because one is a believer or Christian, not for the purpose of becoming one and not for the purpose of earning salvation in any way

 

 

2 hours ago, Videospirit said:

The bible clearly states that god wills for us to do works. If you reject that

I never rejected the importance of works, but they have nothing to do with salvation. 

[Videospirit]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That is not correct.  What you are saying would destroy a believer's peace.  It would put the fear of eternal perdition in any believer.  That is not the kind of God believers have and is not what the Bible teaches.

I am not sure what you have studied or what you based your claim on.  There are a number of good sources of Bible doctrine.  It is overly simplistic to just quote one or two verses.  There is really a lot to it.  This book, Major Bible Themes, was written by Lewis Sperry Chafer, who lived in the early half of the 20th century and was a co-founder of Dallas Theological Seminary.  He had eminent qualification as a professor of systematic theology.  He presents in his book the dispensational view.  Other views such as the Reformed, Presbyterian, or Calvinist theology also support the eternal security of believers.  Check out the Westminster Confessions of Faith, larger catechism.

The book Major Bible Themes by Lewis Sperry Chafer has a very good chapter on Security.  I will quote a part of it but you will have to go to their website to read the rest of the chapter to get a complete picture.

"Chapter 33 - Security This Chapter is concerned with the Biblical answer to the question, "Could a person once saved ever be lost again?" Since fear of eternal perdition must destroy the believer's peace, and since to suppose that one once saved might be lost again, of necessity, limits the saving grace of God as it is in Christ, the subject of this Chapter is of utmost importance. The claim that one who is once saved might be lost again is usually based on a form of rationalism which, emphasizing certain passages of Scripture, does not consider sufficiently the testimony of all the Word of God. Concerning this question, church creeds have taken opposing sides; but it will be observed that belief or disbelief in the security of all who are saved is more personal than creedal. While the great body of New Testament Scriptures which bear directly or indirectly on this question declare the believer to be secure, there are upwards of twenty-five passages which have been cited in evidence by those who maintain that the believer is insecure. It is certain that an individual could not be at the same time both secure and insecure. Therefore, of these two bodies of Scripture, one body of Scripture must of necessity conform to the other. From careful study it will be seen that the so-called "insecurity passages" are not such in reality, that they do not oppose the positive doctrine of security, and that they seem to teach insecurity only when they are misunderstood or misapplied. Certain, of these do not apply to the Christian since they belong to another dispensation (Matthew 24:13; Ezekiel 33:7, 8; Matthew 18:23-35; 25:30). Other passages refer only to false and unregenerate teachers of the "last days" (1 Timothy 4:1, 2; 2 Peter 2:1-22; Jude 1:17-19). One passage describes that which is merely a moral reformation (Luke 11:24-26). Several of these Scriptures bear on the important fact that Christian profession is justified by its fruits. Salvation which is of God will, under normal conditions, prove itself to be such by its own fruits (1 John 3:10; John 8:31; 15:6; 2 Peter 1:10; James 2:14-26; 1 Corinthians 15:1, 2; Hebrews 3:6, 14). In addition to this, there are certain passages that contain warnings which, when rightly interpreted, do not imply the insecurity of the believer under grace. Jews are warned that since their sacrifices have ceased they must turn to Christ or be lost (Hebrews 10:26), in like manner, unsaved Jews as well as Gentiles are warned against "falling away" from the illuminating, converting work of the Spirit (Hebrews 6:4-9). So, also, unspiritual Jews are warned that they will not be received into the coming kingdom (Matthew 25:1-13), and Gentiles are given a corporate warning which has no reference to the individual believer (Romans 11:21). Again, the one who is saved and safe may lose his reward (1 Corinthians 3:15; Colossians 1:21-23), and be disapproved concerning his service for Christ (1 Corinthians 9:27). Likewise, he may lose his fellowship because of sin (1 John 1:6), and he may be chastened of God (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; John 15:2; 1 John 5:16). And, finally, it is possible for the believer to "fall from grace" (Galatians 5:1-4), which, however, is never accomplished by sinning; for the Christian falls from grace only when he turns from his true liberty under grace to the bondage of the law. The positive doctrine of security rests upon an extended body of truth in which no less than twelve unchangeable facts of divine grace and its accomplishments are declared; any one of which alone would suffice to form an adequate basis for perfect rest and peace."

For the rest of the chapter (33) go to:

Themes.pdf

Even your own post states that those who have received salvation can fall from grace.

Quote

Revelation 20:11-15

 

¹¹ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

¹³ And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

¹⁴ And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

¹⁵ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There can be no judgement according to works if salvation alone has given them security. 

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

Even your own post states that those who have received salvation can fall from grace.

You didn't quote what I said about that so I am not sure what you are referring to.

It appears you never read what I posted.  I guess you just read one or two lines and jump in with a reply.

"I. The Covenant of God The direct, unqualified promises of security (John 5:24; 6:37; 10:28) form an unconditional covenant in which God simply declares what He is going to do, which is also an expression of His unchangeable will. In Romans 8:29, 30 this eternal purpose is revealed and its realization is assured through sovereign grace and apart from every human work and merit. II. The Power of God As being absolutely free from every limitation the Scriptures assert that God is able to keep all who are saved through Christ (John 10:29; Romans 4:21; 8:31, 38, 39; 14:4; Ephesians 3:20; Philippians 3:21; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; Jude 1:24)."

-from Major Bible Themes  ch.33 Security of Salvation

[Videospirit]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

I never said becoming a Christian invalidate the need to do works, but the works do not save anyone.  Works are important of course, but the works are done because one is a believer or Christian, not for the purpose of becoming one and not for the purpose of earning salvation in any way

You rejected Gaiten's claim that

On 2/18/2025 at 10:04 PM, Gaétan said:

To believe in Jesus means to observe his commands otherwise it as no sense.

Which really could have been phrased better, but you rejected this outright.

[blackbird]

Just now, Videospirit said:

You rejected Gaiten's claim that

Which really could have been phrased better, but you rejected this outright.

How would you phrase it?   I rejected his claims because he is completely wrong.  He claims the way of salvation is works.

[Videospirit]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

How would you phrase it?   I rejected his claims because he is completely wrong.  He claims the way of salvation is works.

First off he isn't talking about salvation, he's talking about faith.

Second, there is no such thing as "The way of salvation." You either have salvation or you do not. Salvation itself cannot be lost once acquired, and there is no thing you need to do to obtain it.

But you don't understand what salvation is. Salvation is the grace of being saved from your ignorance of god. It is a very different matter from faith. You need faith to obtain salvation, but salvation is not faith it is knowledge.

As for how I would correct his words.

"To believe in Jesus means to believe in his commands otherwise "to believe in Jesus" makes no sense."

Is probably the most clear way to express his intentions while keeping as much of his original message as possible.

Edited February 20 by Videospirit

[blackbird]

47 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

First off he isn't talking about salvation, he's talking about faith.

Second, there is no such thing as "The way of salvation." You either have salvation or you do not. Salvation itself cannot be lost once acquired, and there is no thing you need to do to obtain it.

But you don't understand what salvation is. Salvation is the grace of being saved from your ignorance of god. It is a very different matter from faith. You need faith to obtain salvation, but salvation is not faith it is knowledge.

As for how I would correct his words.

"To believe in Jesus means to believe in his commands otherwise "to believe in Jesus" makes no sense."

Is probably the most clear way to express his intentions while keeping as much of his original message as possible.

I can see you are not paying attention to anything I post.

 Are you saved?  Do you have eternal life now?  How do you know?

Edited February 20 by blackbird

[blackbird]

52 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

First off he isn't talking about salvation, he's talking about faith.

No, I think I asked him about salvation.  He said he didn't know.

 

52 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

Second, there is no such thing as "The way of salvation."

Wow!   So what is the Bible all about then?  

A central teaching in the Bible is the way of salvation, that is, how to get to heaven and have eternal life.

How can you say a thing like that?  Have you read heard the gospel message?  Do you not realize what you are saying is totally contrary to the central teaching of Christianity and the Bible?

Probably the most well known verse in the Bible is John 3:16 KJV

"16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

That is a core message of the Bible.  It is all about the way of salvation.

Edited February 20 by blackbird