Mulroney Honoured As Canada's Greenest PM

[August1991]

The only american prime minister of Canada who gave us lock stock and barrel of water to the makers of the yankee dollah via the "free trade deal" is a hero of Canadian environment? some of the pastries involved in the free lunch for the jury must have been brownies.

On the contrary, Mulroney made substantial innovations - as you can see if you flip through this thread.

1. Acid rain agreement

2. Montreal protocol on ozone-layer emissions

3. Rio agreement which started the ball rolling on Kyoto

The acid rain agreement was innovative because it created an international market in sulphur dioxide emissions. The Montreal protocol effectively banished CFCs. The Rio agreement dealt with limits to CO2 emissions. (Kyoto later turned the whole thing into a mess.)

----

On a related point ignored in this thread is the fact that Harper appeared with Mulroney during the ceremony in Ottawa. When was the last time two Conservative PMs could share a podium together? We are seeing for the first time in over 100 years the existence of a Conservative tradition in Canada. Harper obviously intends to cultivate this.

The Liberals are bullies and they hated Mulroney, doing everything possible to denigrate him. Mulroney doesn't deserve such a fate. He was a successful PM.

To be a civilized democracy, Canada must have a viable two party tradition.

[shoop]

Agreed. and like bullies once they have lost power they try and resort to their bullying ways to gain it back. Doesn't look like it will work in this case!

On a related point ignored in this thread is the fact that Harper appeared with Mulroney during the ceremony in Ottawa. When was the last time two Conservative PMs could share a podium together? We are seeing for the first time in over 100 years the existence of a Conservative tradition in Canada. Harper obviously intends to cultivate this.

The Liberals are bullies and they hated Mulroney, doing everything possible to denigrate him. Mulroney doesn't deserve such a fate. He was a successful PM.

To be a civilized democracy, Canada must have a viable two party tradition.

[newbie]

Seems like a pretty convincing case can be made for Mulroney as greatest living PM.

Please read the Secret Mulroney Tapes to see the true worth of "lyin' Brian." My God, the guy's ego needs a postal code. I'd take Turner over Mulroney anyday just on his NAFTA fight alone.

[KrustyKidd]

My God, the guy's ego needs a postal code.

[lit_schaeffer]

Mulroney put his ambition in front of the welfare of his country by recruiting separatists to run as Conservatives, almost single-handedly reviving them as a political force. Even though winning a contest over Martin and Chretien is like being voted "Most beautiful leper", to reward Mulroney with any distinction is distasteful. Perhaps they should have admitted that the crop of living Prime Ministers is so bad that any distinction is the lesser of evils.

[scribblet]

Actually not only was Mulroney 'greener' but he had the best economic record, at least when this was written:

Canada lags behind the U.S. http://www.environmentaldefence.ca/pressro...ws/20051013.htm

TTAWA -- Canadians have no reason to feel smug and righteous when comparing their efforts at cleaning up air pollution to the much better performance of the United States, an environmental coalition says.

"In many ways, [President] George Bush's America is doing a much better job of cleaning up pollution than our own country," Rick Smith of Pollution Watch said yesterday.

The United States reduced air-pollution emissions by 45 per cent between 1995 and 2003, he said. "At the same time, Canada has reduced its air pollution by an embarrassing 1.8 per cent."

http://www.mcgill.ca/files/economics/foreward.pdf

In November 1993, my colleague Al Riggs and I published a comparative study of

Canadian Prime Ministers since the end of World War II, and concluded that Brian

Mulroney had the best economic record since Louis St. Laurent.

We have updated our study to include the Chretien years. Mr. Chretien is still in office.

His term is incomplete. But his objective record does not fare well in our statistical

comparison, where a PM earns points not for basking in good times but for improving his

inherited situation; for doing a better job than his competitor in the Oval Office; for

showing a upward trend in desirable numbers during his term; and for making a

difference in the later development of Canada. When we crunch the numbers to measure

by these standards, Mr. Mulroney still has the best economic ranking of any Prime

Minister in recent times, and Mr. Chretien ranks last, closely trailed by Mr. Trudeau.

[shoop]

Hmm, what is the definition of an ad hominem attack?

When you can't find fault with the person's platform or performance you attack them on a personal level?

Large ego ... sure. Does he still qualify as greatest living PM?

Hmmm, Turner fought the FTA, not NAFTA and wasn't PM when he did it.

Thanks for supporting my case!!!

Please read the Secret Mulroney Tapes to see the true worth of "lyin' Brian." My God, the guy's ego needs a postal code. I'd take Turner over Mulroney anyday just on his NAFTA fight alone.

[newbie]

Hmm, what is the definition of an ad hominem attack?

When you can't find fault with the person's platform or performance you attack them on a personal level?

Large ego ... sure. Does he still qualify as greatest living PM?

Hmmm, Turner fought the FTA, not NAFTA and wasn't PM when he did it.

Thanks for supporting my case!!!

Please read the Secret Mulroney Tapes to see the true worth of "lyin' Brian." My God, the guy's ego needs a postal code. I'd take Turner over Mulroney anyday just on his NAFTA fight alone.

Yes, you're quite right, it was FTA. Turner was a former PM and that qualifies for your argument. It is a proven fact Brian Mulroney lied, READ THE BOOK. He was not a man of integrity, just based on what he said about his follow politicians. He left his party completely destroyed, tried to force Meech Lake by locking in his Premiers (and wrongly blamed Cyde Wells when it was Elijah Harper who was rightly responsible), blew Charlottetown, doubled our national debt, forced privitization, stacked the senate to pass his GST...Yeah, a great legacy. As a public figure, anyone can criticize or support. Hardly an ad hominem. Read more of his blunders here:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/09/19/MulroneysWhoppers/

[BHS]

Hmm, what is the definition of an ad hominem attack?

When you can't find fault with the person's platform or performance you attack them on a personal level?

Large ego ... sure. Does he still qualify as greatest living PM?

Hmmm, Turner fought the FTA, not NAFTA and wasn't PM when he did it.

Thanks for supporting my case!!!

Please read the Secret Mulroney Tapes to see the true worth of "lyin' Brian." My God, the guy's ego needs a postal code. I'd take Turner over Mulroney anyday just on his NAFTA fight alone.

Yes, you're quite right, it was FTA. Turner was a former PM and that qualifies for your argument. It is a proven fact Brian Mulroney lied, READ THE BOOK. He was not a man of integrity, just based on what he said about his follow politicians. He left his party completely destroyed, tried to force Meech Lake by locking in his Premiers (and wrongly blamed Cyde Wells when it was Elijah Harper who was rightly responsible), blew Charlottetown, doubled our national debt, forced privitization, stacked the senate to pass his GST...Yeah, a great legacy. As a public figure, anyone can criticize or support. Hardly an ad hominem. Read more of his blunders here:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/09/19/MulroneysWhoppers/

I'm always amused when I read putative lefties complaining about right side politicians "increasing debt". As if you wouldn't have screamed blue murder if Mulroney had cut all of Trudeau's beloved (and expensive) social programs. That's assuming you're old enough to remember back that far.

[newbie]

I'm always amused when I read putative lefties complaining about right side politicians "increasing debt". As if you wouldn't have screamed blue murder if Mulroney had cut all of Trudeau's beloved (and expensive) social programs. That's assuming you're old enough to remember back that far.

Not only do I remember, I and all of my friends benefitted from the work programs initiated by Trudeau. I can't recall anyone who was unemployed in the 1970's. Most of us got our start from those programs, even though it cost the country. At the time, it was the right thing to do.

[August1991]

Mulroney put his ambition in front of the welfare of his country by recruiting separatists to run as Conservatives, almost single-handedly reviving them as a political force. Even though winning a contest over Martin and Chretien is like being voted "Most beautiful leper", to reward Mulroney with any distinction is distasteful. Perhaps they should have admitted that the crop of living Prime Ministers is so bad that any distinction is the lesser of evils.

I disagree strongly.

Mulroney brought into his government many ordinary, honest Quebecers such as Lucien Bouchard. If Canada is to function as a united, civilized country, then Canadians must compromise. Meech Lake was a minimal but functioning compromise, typical of Canada's history.

Harper will have to do the same. I think he just might succeed.

Not only do I remember, I and all of my friends benefitted from the work programs initiated by Trudeau. I can't recall anyone who was unemployed in the 1970's. Most of us got our start from those programs, even though it cost the country. At the time, it was the right thing to do.

For Gawdsakes Newbie, the easiest thing to do is to steal money from honest people. It's harder to steal on a regular basis because you'll eventually get caught.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Liberals under Trudeau took money from honest Canadians and gave it out in all sorts of crazy grants, and government jobs. Later, the honest people started to react, object and hide their money so it couldn't be stolen. I simplify but even Trudeau, after the 1972 election, said "No more Philosopher King". By 1978, he was referring to Alberta as "that place where they think I'm a communist."

http://www.mcgill.ca/files/economics/foreward.pdf

In November 1993, my colleague Al Riggs and I published a comparative study of

Canadian Prime Ministers since the end of World War II, and concluded that Brian

Mulroney had the best economic record since Louis St. Laurent.

I looked through that text Scriblett (thanks for the link) but basically I found it useless. Barro, I think, had a point. The McGill profs are just desperate for publicity.

True, we need a simple way to assess the economic competence of politicians in power but that paper is useless in such a pursuit. If Mulroney did any good for Canada's economy, his wise decisions are possibly showing up now.

And in any case, Canada's problems, unlike the US, go well beyond economics. For example, I'm convinced that Harper won 10 seats in Quebec because of Mulroney.

Seems like a pretty convincing case can be made for Mulroney as greatest living PM.

Please read the Secret Mulroney Tapes to see the true worth of "lyin' Brian." My God, the guy's ego needs a postal code. I'd take Turner over Mulroney anyday just on his NAFTA fight alone.

I started a thread here about that book. Here's a link. (The thread contains some of the choice quotes - a delight to read.)

The phrase "Mulroney's ego needs a postal code" is good but comes from someone else. I can't find the original source.