Former top Yank cop says drug war a flop

[fixer1]

Blubberymiley

You say you have used it everyday for 20 years. That it helps you feel happy and jovial. Well I hate to inform you, but that is a problem. You feel you need some drug to get ypou through the day, and to make you feel in ways you would not other wise. That to me sounds like addiction, even though you say you can quit cold turkey when travelling. You do admit to affected dreams and mood when without it. Now I assume you do frive sometime and being that you use everyday, I will also assume that you do drive while high. So while you do not see yourself as a problem, those around you probably will.

Do not get me wrong, when I was younger I did drugs for a bit but was then drawn into the selling drugs by a group where no seller was ever a user. I left tjhat life behind at age 20. I have many things I regret and that time is one that I really have to question myself on. You seem on the other hand to fondly remember those days and carry them to adulthood. Take it from one who has seen all sides of the drugs. It is not pretty and it ruins at least 90% of all people who use for a short time (6 months to a year). That is why even the Mob were slow getting into this business but now it is their main money maker.

[BubberMiley]

The blubberymiley pun was very clever.

Edited August 27, 2010 by BubberMiley

[GostHacked]

I'm high right now, but I'm not blasted.

That's what the drunk driver said: "I've had several pints....but I'm okay. I can drive."

Then you read about them in the papers. And you hear about the people they've maimed or killed.

But I'm not driving anyway. I'm just posting on the Internet. It's a stretch to say I shouldn't get high on weed because someone drunk on a very, very different substance doesn't know how to use their discretion.

Also you must have the same responsibility when high or drunk. You just DON'T get behind the wheel. Driving under the influence of alcohol or wee or any drug is just very very very very stupid. And you should suffer the consequences for that period. I smoke at night, weekends, days off. NEVER before work. NEVER before important meetings/functions.

I agree that alcohol is a gateway drug, if it was not for booze, I may not have ever tried weed, or excasty or mushrooms. For some reason though I do not smoke cigarettes.

[blueblood]

well my views on this are complex, but I figure that legalising won't fix this problem as piles and piles of people drink and harsh penalties won't fix it as piles and piles of people do drugs, this is societies problem and as a society we should fix it. I believe in society drinking and drug use are the accepted norm (unfortunately), but smoking from what i understand isn't as acceptable and rates are going down. I drink as it's acceptable, I don't do drugs as in my "environment" it's not acceptable as we view drugs as most people nowadays view cigarrettes and stereotype drug users as lazy and not good enough, it's wrong to think like that, but was effective in deterring me and most of my friends from drug use. I don't believe that we should change the laws as with prohibition booze was the drug of choice, now pot is the drug of choice -> if that's legal what's next, scary. Also I hate to say this that with this "war on drugs" it is giving the cops some job security which provides employment. I also know that a lot of cops wouldn't waste their time writing up someone with possession as they have better things to do and write reports on. I believe that we should quit throwing money at it except paying for cop salaries on their "wild goose chases" which i have no problem employing police officers, we as a society should say as with smoking that it's bad it's not socially acceptable anymore, do that with drugs and over time bye bye drug problem. Sure your going to have outliers that don't care (example of an outlier -> we apparently are so short of employment we need foreigners but have those poor people on the reserves living in squalor come on) Now here's where i get in shit, it's a shame that this is correlating with rural depopulation. Everyone is moving to the cities where in my opinion they don't do any "real work" (sorry my idea of real work is physical work my cross to bear and you can probly tell im a farmer) get bored cuz they're not working hard or can't find work and turn to drug use, now that its glorified in your guys culture and us country boys are forced to swallow your culture of what's cool and what's not, we now have a drug problem on top of the other problems you guys give us. I believe that if people moved back to the rural areas a lot of problems would be solved.

[BubberMiley]

I don't know. Farmers around my parts have the best grow-ops, so maybe they're importing "problems" into the city. It's a lot more lucrative than canola or wheat these days.

[GostHacked]

Now here's where i get in shit, it's a shame that this is correlating with rural depopulation. Everyone is moving to the cities where in my opinion they don't do any "real work" (sorry my idea of real work is physical work my cross to bear and you can probly tell im a farmer) get bored cuz they're not working hard or can't find work and turn to drug use, now that its glorified in your guys culture and us country boys are forced to swallow your culture of what's cool and what's not, we now have a drug problem on top of the other problems you guys give us. I believe that if people moved back to the rural areas a lot of problems would be solved.

Real work? I use my brain alot at work. I help maintain this thing you call the Internet. It is not an easy job sometimes to keep the information flowing. Just like you need to maintain the flow of your farm. I used to do alot of physical work in a grocery store. I don't see how that @$10/hour garners more respect than me sitting at a chair using my brain all day @$15/hour. Both are tough in different ways. I respect farmers and I also respect other peoples choices in careers. There are also workaholics out there as well, corporate eggheads constantly tweaking the system. Also I do not see many scientists that are like farmer buff. Hard to do that when trying to find a cure for HIV and cancer. Drugs existed in society for longer than we have really been moving into cities. I would go as far as to say they have always existed in society in one form or another.

Now, we are not pushing our culture on you at all. If you do not want to participate in let's say legalizing drugs, I think if you had a good grip on things, that everything would for the most most part stay the same. It will have little if any effect of your daily life.

If I moved back to the country you can 100% be a sure bet I would grow pot for my own personal use.

[blueblood]

well GostHacked, I appreciate your respect for the agricultural sector, and kudos to you for sticking up for urban workplace, I still however stand by my opinion and belief of it and that's as far as I want to take it, and as I said it's my cross to bear, I just don't see how a CEO garners as much respect as a guy who works with his back in terms of physical aspect of work, sure the stress levels are similar, but I don't justify paying him forkloads of money, again my cross to bear, that's how I see things and that's how you and others see things.

But to say that the mainstream media and society is not pushing culture on us out in the sticks is not true, all a person has to do is turn on the tv, radio, watch a movie and wham there it is drug culture i got no choice but to put up with it and from the looks of things it looks pretty "cool" and at the expense of not being "cool" we get our problem hence people will like it and embrace it. from a country boys perspective Before we were forcefed this "culture" we did things differently, and to some degree still do, for a good part drug use is still looked down upon in the stix the same way you guys look at rednecks, driving drunk, and smoking cigarettes. Now since drug use is "cool" we got drugs coming into the rural areas which is in my view a crying shame. What I'm getting at is that since it was so looked down upon in my environment, it keeps a good proportion of people clean including myself, and in my view is more effective a drug deterrent than jail time, gov't programs etc. I believe that we shouldn't change the laws, leave them where they are as since pot from what i hear is fairly harmless, let that be the big drug of choice like booze was when prohibition was going on, i mean you legalize it what next, pretty scary huh? I don't know a cop that will bust a kid for smoking a joint, it's a waste of time like you said, i'm saying if it's still illegal let the cops chase their tails around trying to catch dealers. I'm also saying that if society says oh drugs arent cool no more the dealers probly won't have business. Legalising won't have an effect on my daily life, it might for someone else though.

as for farmers importing the problem to the cities that is fallicy, i mean you guys give us a market and since our prices are in the shitter caused by big city food companies and the government (mostly city folk) not giving us a fair price or royalties for our products like Monsanto gets theirs and recording artists get theirs. If we did get those, we wouldn't need to grow drugs, and I'll say again if society and culture changed there would be no market for drugs and no grow ops, it's up to everyone to change. I mean our society is a joke now, I'm more scared to drive drunk than a drug dealer selling drugs, in my eyes I'm scared of the consequenses, is the drug dealer I don't think so, he doesn't care if he goes to jail. I'll ask this question to end off though, if drug use were about as cool/respected as rednecks, driving drunk, or smoking cigarettes would you or anyone start?

[BubberMiley]

Nobody I know over 25 think drugs are cool. And I think the kids under 25 are a lot more conservative than when I was growing up in the 70s. As for hard drugs, one look at "Faces of Meth" on the Internet would probably make most kids reconsider drugs' "coolness."

I think the only reason weed is considered "cool" is the outlaw image attached to it by it criminalization. It wasn't even on the radar of popular culture before it was criminalized and, if it were legal, it would probably have a hipness cachet somewhere between glue and Ativan.

[blueblood]

"Nobody I know over 25 think drugs are cool. And I think the kids under 25 are a lot more conservative than when I was growing up in the 70s. As for hard drugs, one look at "Faces of Meth" on the Internet would probably make most kids reconsider drugs' "coolness."

I think the only reason weed is considered "cool" is the outlaw image attached to it by it criminalization. It wasn't even on the radar of popular culture before it was criminalized and, if it were legal, it would probably have a hipness cachet somewhere between glue and Ativan."

Bubbermiley, I'd have to disagree with you on your first point, I do believe that in our society that drug use is glorified, which in my opinion sucks, and your points are valid. I do agree with you to a point on you second point and i figure that if weed were never illegal in the first place "it would probably have a hipness cachet somewhere between glue and Ativan." but to make it legal again after it's been illegal and would still be illegal in other places might generate a societal problem similar to alcohol (see prev. posts) (mind you I like my booze, but I do see the societal disadvantages with it). Booze is legal, society loves it. Smokes are legal, social attitudes are negative towards it. Once again pop culture and attitudes have to change to combat the drug problem.

[Black Dog]

We also have to consider the moral implicatons of supplying a deadly, addictive substance like crack which the government knows will destroy anyone taking it within a year.

If someone is addicted to crack, isn't it better that they get their fix from a safe supply, and are able to use in a safe environment where treatment and education is readily available? Because we're not talking about free crack for the kids but an approach that treats drugs and addiction as a medical matter, not a criminal one.

[GostHacked]

We also have to consider the moral implicatons of supplying a deadly, addictive substance like crack which the government knows will destroy anyone taking it within a year.

If someone is addicted to crack, isn't it better that they get their fix from a safe supply, and are able to use in a safe environment where treatment and education is readily available? Because we're not talking about free crack for the kids but an approach that treats drugs and addiction as a medical matter, not a criminal one.

A point that many miss. There have been times my roomate will scrounge around the house for a few coins so he can go buy a pack of smokes. He runs around like a crack addict if he does not get his fix. How other drugs are worse than this, I cannot imagine. Medical treatment for an addiction.

Blueblood

Well GostHacked, I appreciate your respect for the agricultural sector, and kudos to you for sticking up for urban workplace, I still however stand by my opinion and belief of it and that's as far as I want to take it, and as I said it's my cross to bear, I just don't see how a CEO garners as much respect as a guy who works with his back in terms of physical aspect of work, sure the stress levels are similar, but I don't justify paying him forkloads of money, again my cross to bear, that's how I see things and that's how you and others see things.

You are forgetting how your product gets to my table after you sold all your goods to the market. People take it, process it, make it into things. And you have people overlooking every aspect of the process from you planting the seed to me buying bread in the local store. If everyone did nothing but back breaking work, then nothing would get accomplished. You still need people with brains and GOOD ones to keep the system working as it is. You SHOULD garner some respect for a CEO and other eggheads, otherwise your goods may never get to my table. There is alot more to the scope than just the farmer.

If no one else was there Blueblood, not only would you have the physical load to bear, but also the mental one. You can farm all freaking day if you like, but if there is no means for you to move/sell your goods, you are stuck with doing everything yourself. Your work load is twice as large now.

We can also get into the aspect of your equipment and how it is fuels. Most of the equipment you have is made by machines and people with smarty brains are controlling the computers to make your tractors, your combines your everything. We can take this all away and go back to where we were before the steam tractor, since physical work is where you throw your respect. BUT I highly doubt you would want to go back to those days.

Bluueblood, it takes all kinds for this planet to work in the way that it is. You have your part, we have ours. DON'T forget that

Now back to the topic. If you do not like what you see on TV then just turn the damn thing off!! I live in Ottawa and I do not listen to radio, I do not watch TV, but I am online with the Internet alot. If you do not like things shoved in your face, you can just turn the TV off, I used that option and it works for me. No more mind numbing stupid TV. (I was at my parents over the weekend for easter and I spent more time on the PC than at the TV, I flipped through for 20 minutes did not find SQUAT that was interesting.

Moderation like everything else Blueblood.

'll ask this question to end off though, if drug use were about as cool/respected as rednecks, driving drunk, or smoking cigarettes would you or anyone start?

No respect for anyone driving under the influence of anything (even fatigue will cause accidents). Rednecks are not cool either. I do not thing cigaretts are cool, but it is not my choice if they smoke. It is theirs.

It is all about choices and your ability to have self control in the end.

[blueblood]

We also have to consider the moral implicatons of supplying a deadly, addictive substance like crack which the government knows will destroy anyone taking it within a year.

If someone is addicted to crack, isn't it better that they get their fix from a safe supply, and are able to use in a safe environment where treatment and education is readily available? Because we're not talking about free crack for the kids but an approach that treats drugs and addiction as a medical matter, not a criminal one.

A point that many miss. There have been times my roomate will scrounge around the house for a few coins so he can go buy a pack of smokes. He runs around like a crack addict if he does not get his fix. How other drugs are worse than this, I cannot imagine. Medical treatment for an addiction.

Blueblood

Well GostHacked, I appreciate your respect for the agricultural sector, and kudos to you for sticking up for urban workplace, I still however stand by my opinion and belief of it and that's as far as I want to take it, and as I said it's my cross to bear, I just don't see how a CEO garners as much respect as a guy who works with his back in terms of physical aspect of work, sure the stress levels are similar, but I don't justify paying him forkloads of money, again my cross to bear, that's how I see things and that's how you and others see things.

You are forgetting how your product gets to my table after you sold all your goods to the market. People take it, process it, make it into things. And you have people overlooking every aspect of the process from you planting the seed to me buying bread in the local store. If everyone did nothing but back breaking work, then nothing would get accomplished. You still need people with brains and GOOD ones to keep the system working as it is. You SHOULD garner some respect for a CEO and other eggheads, otherwise your goods may never get to my table. There is alot more to the scope than just the farmer.

If no one else was there Blueblood, not only would you have the physical load to bear, but also the mental one. You can farm all freaking day if you like, but if there is no means for you to move/sell your goods, you are stuck with doing everything yourself. Your work load is twice as large now.

We can also get into the aspect of your equipment and how it is fuels. Most of the equipment you have is made by machines and people with smarty brains are controlling the computers to make your tractors, your combines your everything. We can take this all away and go back to where we were before the steam tractor, since physical work is where you throw your respect. BUT I highly doubt you would want to go back to those days.

Bluueblood, it takes all kinds for this planet to work in the way that it is. You have your part, we have ours. DON'T forget that

Now back to the topic. If you do not like what you see on TV then just turn the damn thing off!! I live in Ottawa and I do not listen to radio, I do not watch TV, but I am online with the Internet alot. If you do not like things shoved in your face, you can just turn the TV off, I used that option and it works for me. No more mind numbing stupid TV. (I was at my parents over the weekend for easter and I spent more time on the PC than at the TV, I flipped through for 20 minutes did not find SQUAT that was interesting.

Moderation like everything else Blueblood.

'll ask this question to end off though, if drug use were about as cool/respected as rednecks, driving drunk, or smoking cigarettes would you or anyone start?

No respect for anyone driving under the influence of anything (even fatigue will cause accidents). Rednecks are not cool either. I do not thing cigaretts are cool, but it is not my choice if they smoke. It is theirs.

It is all about choices and your ability to have self control in the end.

GostHacked We can argue about my opinion till hell freezes over, it's my belief and my problem. About the TV, it's nice to see you acknowledge that MSM forcefeeds us culture, and yes I completely agree with you with the fact that to not to put up with it don't turn it on, me being a country boy and seeing how I look at things it's safe to say that I turn off the tv quite a bit. I'm not worried about myself, I've made my bed on the drug matter, and you have too. I'm worried about the kid that doesn't know to turn the tv off, the kid who wants to fit in, be cool, who might not know their limits, has poor self control etc. With an observation I made about society, it appears they have to turn to drug use to fit in and therein lies the problem. I mean what looks more appealing to a kid a rap video promoting drug use and parties where drugs are going on or a cheesy public service announcement and youth group at the church where they drink juice and bible thump? Had I grew up where drugs were viewed as cool and encourged I'd probly go on it, but since I didn't I don't do them. If people want to do them fine, but don't push it on us, as far as i'm concerned they have as much right to push drug use as church groups have a right to push non-drug use, in my opinion they can both go fly a kite. i hope it doesn't look like im pushing anti-drugs on anyone, that's not my intent, all im saying is my opinion on why there is a drug problem and a possible solution ->societies attitude changing. Would I like to see the drug problem solved, yes. Would I go around at a party preaching that drugs are bad, hell no. In my opinion again if drug use was not cool and not pushed on people there wouldn't be this so called problem. If society did change and If people still do drugs regardless if it's cool or not, then that is a decision they made and should be respected and they should be left alone. I don't know if I explained myself clearly enough and might sound like hypocrisy and I apologize for any grey areas. In a nutshell I would like society to view drugs as not cool and there are better things to do, NOT drugs are the devil if you do them you go to hell and are an evil person if you do do them, but then i'd also like royalties on any sale of ag produce (hooch, groceries, biofuel, ingredients for food, packers, processing) but that ain't gonna happen. Once again in my opinion society is to blame, simply legalising won't solve it, nor will harsher penalties for deterrents. But you did sidestep my last question though, I didn't get a yes or no answer.

[Hydraboss]

blueblood, I agree that making it a matter of choice should not be an option. There do, however, have to be limits on what we as a country wish to regulate. Arguments regarding the slippery slope of regulating VLT's, cigarettes, booze, driving fast, promiscuous sex, etc.. abound. I do not agree with many forms of government regulation, but I can see the benefit to society as a whole with the banning of known killers. Cigarettes, drugs and liberalism. All are known brain-killers (ok, maybe not liberalism but I had to throw it in). If you make it legal, more kids will do it. Both sides may argue yea or nay, but my belief is that if kids can't do it in front of adults, it will be reduced. How many fourteen year olds sit at home and drink a six-pack in front of the tube with dad? Not many I bet. For those that do, regulation would have no more effect than deregulation. There will always be those that could not give a damn about the laws, but that does not mean that society as a whole has to give in to them. Legalize drugs? Why? Those that do them will do them regardless. Those that do not do them will probably not start, not because of the dangers but because of the law.

I'm certain someone on here will spark a spliff and argue the flipside.

And harsher penalties will solve it for some.

[Black Dog]

How many fourteen year olds sit at home and drink a six-pack in front of the tube with dad? Not many I bet.

No, but a whole whack of them sit in the bush or in someone else's basement and drink a six pack there. If Junior is going to slam a sixer, isn't it better to do it where dad can keep an eye on him so he doesn't choke on his vomit? That's how I see harm reduction approach to drugs working: it begins with the acknowledgement that, in a free society, people will engage in bahaviours that are potentially deterimental to their personal well-being. It then becomes society's obligation not only actively discourage such behaviours, but mitigate them as much as possible. And experience has shown that punitive measures create more problems than they solve.

[blueblood]

BD has got her down. Attitude has to change