Zacarias Moussaoui Trial

[GostHacked]

Has anyone else been keeping their eye on this trial at all? I have been reading it off and on, but never really payed that close attention to it before.

I watched the clip over at CBS News.com today about the trial.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/20/...in1420483.shtml

I guess in retrospect, yes all the evidence we had about the attacks, we could have prevented. I am going to read more about this. I think this is a really important case we should pay attention to. It is clear the man is behind bars for the rest of his life now. No doubts about that. Now they are to find out what degree of guilt he has. Death penalty looks like it has been ruled out now. If he had anything really to do with the co-ordination of the 9/11 attacks, I really would not mind seeing him fry. But that is now for the jury to decide. And what a tough job it would be on the jury. Already, I would say, being biased towards him due to what happened to the American psyche that day. Most of them would want to see him fry as well. I am guessing, but that is a feeling I get.

I misspelled 'only' in the title, proof read gh proof read. hahah

[GostHacked]

Todays News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/21/...in1424701.shtml

But on cross examination by defense attorney Edward MacMahon, Rolince conceded that he also later discussed with FBI and CIA officials a plan to have a foreign intelligence service search Moussaoui's computer once the United States deported him to that service's country.

That would have been done if they did not get a warrent in time it seems. But going by the FBI Agent testimony of yesterday, they had plenty of warnings and oppourtunities to arrest Moussaoui. Moussaoui's roomate even testfied against him. Although you cannot really beleive him for he lied to the authorities.

Samit said he worked obsessively after arresting Moussaoui on Aug. 16, 2001, to convince FBI headquarters that Moussaoui warranted a full-scale investigation and that a search warrant should be obtained for his belongings.

And they are trying to prove through this trial that Moussaoui has to have been directly charged with one death.

Also you get Moussaoui lying to Samit, and Samit lying to the FBI when they were both detained before 9/11. And now Samit said that he tried to get the FBI to listen to him to investigate Zacarias before 9/11.

To get the death penalty ....

Prosecutors must prove that Moussaoui's actions caused the death of at least one person on 9/11 to obtain a death penalty.

And if he does not get the death penalty sentence, then he is innocent and should be set free. For that concludes that he had NO DEALINGS with the 9/11 attacks. So, if that fails what else could they charge him for? I have no doubts this jury will find him guilty of causing one death from the attacks to prevent that from happening.

Interesting stuff no?

[geoffrey]

Almost right Gost... except the Jury can no the chamber and still insist his guilt. Many convicted murders in the states get prision instead of death row.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/03/moussaoui/index.html

In the final moments.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear GostHacked,

And if he does not get the death penalty sentence, then he is innocent and should be set free.

This is similar to the argument Robespierre used when arguing that deposing the King of France was a trial and verdict in and of itself, and similar to Saddam's trial. If there is a fair trial, there should be a chance he would be found innocent, and, if found innocent, then he should be returned to power. Or so the argument ran. King Louis lost his head over the matter.

[GostHacked]

Well looks like he is 'eligable' for the death scentence.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/03/moussaou...dict/index.html

"The jury has found that death is a possible sentence in this case," the court's public information officer, Edward Adams, told reporters.

Possible? So this is not 100% then?

The jury's verdict means the trial will continue after a brief recess with additional witnesses and evidence. The jurors now must decide whether Moussaoui will be executed for his role in the 9/11 deaths.

Does this mean the trial will continue or that the jury is really still out on the verdict?

I am no law expert, but shoud the jury just be in closed doors til they make all the decisions? Or is it a two step process, jury decided if guilty, then decides on punishment?

[geoffrey]

Well looks like he is 'eligable' for the death scentence.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/03/moussaou...dict/index.html

"The jury has found that death is a possible sentence in this case," the court's public information officer, Edward Adams, told reporters.

Possible? So this is not 100% then?

The jury's verdict means the trial will continue after a brief recess with additional witnesses and evidence. The jurors now must decide whether Moussaoui will be executed for his role in the 9/11 deaths.

Does this mean the trial will continue or that the jury is really still out on the verdict?

I am no law expert, but shoud the jury just be in closed doors til they make all the decisions? Or is it a two step process, jury decided if guilty, then decides on punishment?

In the States, its a seperate Jury that decides if death is appropriate in capital cases, with all the evidence plus victim impact type things and the such.

One jury finds guilty or not guilty. Another jury defines the punishment.

[crazymf]

I'm all for the death penalty when it warrants.

However, I do not agree with it in this case. The guy had info that he did not share about 911.

What would be his crime if 911 hadn't happened? That's like saying that the end justifies the means. He did not take part in 911 and only had info regarding a plan that hadn't played out yet.

If they execute him, then they have to execute everyone at Guantanimo for the same reasons. They all have plans in their heads to kill Americans.

Nope, I say lock him up for life, no parole, toss the key.

[GostHacked]

I'm all for the death penalty when it warrants.

However, I do not agree with it in this case. The guy had info that he did not share about 911.

What would be his crime if 911 hadn't happened? That's like saying that the end justifies the means. He did not take part in 911 and only had info regarding a plan that hadn't played out yet.

If they execute him, then they have to execute everyone at Guantanimo for the same reasons. They all have plans in their heads to kill Americans.

Nope, I say lock him up for life, no parole, toss the key.

Agreed. The jury won't let him get out of jail at any cost. Unless he pulls a houdini.

[KrustyKidd]

Nope, I say lock him up for life, no parole, toss the key.

I agree with your rationale. However, he has already been found warenting the death penalty so it seems it is up to emotion to play the final part in the trial.

[geoffrey]

Nope, I say lock him up for life, no parole, toss the key.

I agree with your rationale. However, he has already been found warenting the death penalty so it seems it is up to emotion to play the final part in the trial.

Emotion has no place in the legal system.

Hence why I've always liked a more civil law based system. Not like that has stopped emotion from playing a factor either, just I'd say less.

[Liam]

Massaoui to serve life in prison. Link...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12615601/

[geoffrey]

Difference is that in the US he won't be out in 25 years... or sooner with faint hope, statutory release (what the hell is the point in that) and numerous other ridiculous schemes.

He'll actually die in prision.

[PocketRocket]

On CBC radio last night, I heard that he showed "contempt" for the court throughout the trial, and upon delivery of the life sentence, jumped up shouting "The USA lost, I won", and continued taunting the prosecution on his way out of the courtroom. :angry:

Hmmm. I wonder how long he'll last in prison when word gets out just who he is.

Don't bend over to pick up the soap, Zack.

You may find your dignity *ahem* compromised.

[Michael Hardner]

Hmmm. I wonder how long he'll last in prison when word gets out just who he is.

Don't bend over to pick up the soap, Zack.

Guys like this don't go to regular prison. People like him, the Unabomber, and Tim McVeigh go to high security and high tech federal prisons where they're alone most of the time.

[GostHacked]

On CBC radio last night, I heard that he showed "contempt" for the court throughout the trial, and upon delivery of the life sentence, jumped up shouting "The USA lost, I won", and continued taunting the prosecution on his way out of the courtroom. :angry:

Hmmm. I wonder how long he'll last in prison when word gets out just who he is.

Don't bend over to pick up the soap, Zack.

You may find your dignity *ahem* compromised.

In his mind he won because he did not get the death penalty. But the jury decided to let him rot in prison. I had a feeling this was going to be the case. I guess being convicted of at least one death on 9/11 was not enough to sentence him to death.

[Riverwind]

In his mind he won because he did not get the death penalty. But the jury decided to let him rot in prison. I had a feeling this was going to be the case. I guess being convicted of at least one death on 9/11 was not enough to sentence him to death.

Putting someone to death for planning to become a suicide bomber sounds like an contradiction. I think there were people on the jury who believed that letting him rot in jail for the rest of his life was the worst punishment they could hand out to this guy.

[No truth]

As the judge said, he'll go out with a whimper, not a bang. This is likely the worst punishment he could get. Unless you dressed him in a pigskin suit, circumsized him and dyed his beard pink.

[August1991]

Moussaoui sat in his chair, apparently impassive as he stared at Ms Dolan and the other family witnesses, Ms Dillard and Abraham Scott, betraying no emotion as they spoke. He responded directly to them in his speech, referring first to Ms Dillard. "She said I destroyed a life and she lost a husband," Moussaoui said.

"Maybe one day she can think about how many people the CIA has destroyed ... You have a hypocrisy beyond belief. Your humanity is a selective humanity. Only you suffer."

He argued that Americans had lost a vital opportunity to understand why al-Qaida was their enemy. "You have branded me as a terrorist or whatever, a criminal," he said. "You should talk about yourselves first. I fight for my beliefs. I am a mujahid. You think you run the world, and you are wrong."

Guardian

There you have the Left's two standard arguments. The CIA is worse than al-Qaeda. The US thinks it can "run" the world.

The first argument requires a new form of morality equating all values. (Surely western liberal values are good and worth defending.) The second requires a worldview based on centralized authority. (Who is this "US" exactly and how does it "run" the world?)

[scribblet]

Also, executing him would have made him a martyr, not something we would want. 23 hours a day in solitary confinement, and one hour of solitary outdoor stuff, is a fitting punishment IMO, worse than death. If he isn't mad allready, he will be shortly.

[Michael Hardner]

There you have the Left's two standard arguments. The CIA is worse than al-Qaeda. The US thinks it can "run" the world.

The first argument requires a new form of morality equating all values. (Surely western liberal values are good and worth defending.) The second requires a worldview based on centralized authority. (Who is this "US" exactly and how does it "run" the world?)

I'm not sure I've read anything from mainstream leftists saying the CIA is worse than al-Qaeda. Certainly, the British Labour party doesn't seem to take this tack. Also, you seem to be saying that because the CIA is fighting for liberal values (highly arguable, they are supposed to be protecting US interests) then they're on a higher moral ground.

The US doesn't want to run the world, it just wants to run those parts of the world that it cares about. Again, they're protecting their own interests. It's not evil, just self-focussed. But they have wreaked havoc on people in disparate parts of the world, and many Americans are unaware of that.

[GostHacked]

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/...saoui/exhibits/

Looks like we have information on what was being displayed at the trial as evidence.