Canada & US co-operate to smash online child porn ring

[Montgomery Burns]

Good news!

Edmonton Journal:

A massive international child pornography investigation that began in Edmonton last May has resulted in charges against at least 27 people in five countries after undercover police infiltrated private chat rooms sharing graphic files.

Alberta crown prosecutor Steve Bilodeau, who is one of the few lawyers in Canada that specializes in Internet cases, said international investigators told him that additional arrests took place shortly before U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales announced charges against 27 individuals at a press conference in Chicago today. The charges include the possession, receipt, distribution and manufacturing of pictures or live-streaming video of adults sexually-abusing minors and even infants as young as 18 months. The individuals also face conspiracy charges.

Nine people in Canada have been charged in relation to this investigation with the first two stemming from Edmonton. Individuals have also been charged in the U.S., Great Britain, Australia and Sweden. American justice officials said one of the accused is currently a fugitive.

Rope.Tree.Pedo.

Times.27.

[...]

With technology constantly changing, police are facing increasing challenges to stay ahead of predators. Officials spoke highly about a program developed by Microsoft Canada called the Child Exploitation Tracking System of CETS. Three years ago, a member of Toronto police was frustrated with how online pedophiles were evading officers, so he sent an email directly to Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft. Gates sympathized with the officer and instructed Microsoft Canada to develop a program with Toronto police.

Greedy oppressive capitalist who hoards all his riches and contributes nothing good to this world!

[Nocrap]

Good news!

Edmonton Journal:

A massive international child pornography investigation that began in Edmonton last May has resulted in charges against at least 27 people in five countries after undercover police infiltrated private chat rooms sharing graphic files.

Alberta crown prosecutor Steve Bilodeau, who is one of the few lawyers in Canada that specializes in Internet cases, said international investigators told him that additional arrests took place shortly before U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales announced charges against 27 individuals at a press conference in Chicago today. The charges include the possession, receipt, distribution and manufacturing of pictures or live-streaming video of adults sexually-abusing minors and even infants as young as 18 months. The individuals also face conspiracy charges.

Nine people in Canada have been charged in relation to this investigation with the first two stemming from Edmonton. Individuals have also been charged in the U.S., Great Britain, Australia and Sweden. American justice officials said one of the accused is currently a fugitive.

Rope.Tree.Pedo.

Times.27.

[...]

With technology constantly changing, police are facing increasing challenges to stay ahead of predators. Officials spoke highly about a program developed by Microsoft Canada called the Child Exploitation Tracking System of CETS. Three years ago, a member of Toronto police was frustrated with how online pedophiles were evading officers, so he sent an email directly to Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft. Gates sympathized with the officer and instructed Microsoft Canada to develop a program with Toronto police.

Greedy oppressive capitalist who hoards all his riches and contributes nothing good to this world!

I'm not sure if I follow the 'greedy oppressive capitalist' comment. Do you mean Bill Gates? Developing software that will help track down sexual preditors is a great contribution. and I'm proud that it was the result of a Canadian initiative.

[scribblet]

Good news!

Edmonton Journal:

I'm not sure if I follow the 'greedy oppressive capitalist' comment. Do you mean Bill Gates? Developing software that will help track down sexual preditors is a great contribution. and I'm proud that it was the result of a Canadian initiative.

I believe he was being sarcastic.

I guess we allk know that the U.S. Justice Department has gone to court to get access to Google search records to help prevent access to online pornography and won. Yahoo, MMSN and AOL had already complied with the government's request. But did you all know that what you search for is stored in that company's records and that it can be traced back to your computer?

[Nocrap]

Good news!

Edmonton Journal:

I'm not sure if I follow the 'greedy oppressive capitalist' comment. Do you mean Bill Gates? Developing software that will help track down sexual preditors is a great contribution. and I'm proud that it was the result of a Canadian initiative.

I believe he was being sarcastic.

I guess we allk know that the U.S. Justice Department has gone to court to get access to Google search records to help prevent access to online pornography and won. Yahoo, MMSN and AOL had already complied with the government's request. But did you all know that what you search for is stored in that company's records and that it can be traced back to your computer?

Ouch! 'Big Brother' has really gone hi-tech.

Actually, I'm not 100% against the practice. Apparently we're being video-taped all day anyway, and I really have nothing to hide (except maybe for those vacation photos - but that's a different board). If it will help to catch and convict sexual predators or terrorists, then I guess I can live with a bit of personal invasion, so long as it's not abused.

[Shakeyhands]

I have to say I am uncomfortable with the following -

I guess we allk know that the U.S. Justice Department has gone to court to get access to Google search records to help prevent access to online pornography

While I of course have no issue and completely support the effort to stop those that prey on children, I wonder if this isn't more of a religious hunt on pornography in general? I wonder what the parameters are around "preventing access to online pornography"

[GostHacked]

I have to say I am uncomfortable with the following -

I guess we allk know that the U.S. Justice Department has gone to court to get access to Google search records to help prevent access to online pornography

While I of course have no issue and completely support the effort to stop those that prey on children, I wonder if this isn't more of a religious hunt on pornography in general? I wonder what the parameters are around "preventing access to online pornography"

I am glad they netted people from this operation. Proves it works for the most part. Good stuff.!!

But the Google thing does disturb me. They could have solved alot of the problems with creating a .XXX domain, but that was shot down. Google was the last one to cave in, and they are now ordered to. MSN Yahoo caved right away and gave the results to the govermnent. The .XXX domain would have been easy to impliment and easy to track. You could keep your kids safe just by that, restricting your PC or your childs not to access those sites. So much the end user can do to help protect their child, but they are not knowlegable in the Internet to protect themsevles.

Also the parents need to get involved with what their kids do online. Nothing works better than the Parent Monitor.

We all know there is more than just port 80 to get porn on. I am surprised they are not aware of it.

[Leafless]

Nocrap

You wrote- " Developing sogtware that will help track down sexual preditors is a great contribution and Iam proud it was the result of a Canadian initiative."

I heard it was the police who posed as the pedophile on his own computer and had nothing to do with software in this case.

But infringement on privacy is an important aspect not to be ignored and how this will affect the popularity of the internet is not certain.

To bad they can't develop the same kind of software to catch and convict the white collar "greedy oppurtunist capitalist" right in our federal government who rip the tax payers off for millions and don't get to serve a day.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Shakeyhands,

While I of course have no issue and completely support the effort to stop those that prey on children, I wonder if this isn't more of a religious hunt on pornography in general?

Evidently Google balked at providing more than they felt was 'reasonable' pertinent information, even though the police pressed them for it. 'Tis indeed a slippery slope.

Howver, I heard on the news that some of this porn included infants, under the age of 18 months. I think a rope and a tree would be too good for these guys, doesn't sound like enough suffering.

[geoffrey]

Dear Shakeyhands,

While I of course have no issue and completely support the effort to stop those that prey on children, I wonder if this isn't more of a religious hunt on pornography in general?

Evidently Google balked at providing more than they felt was 'reasonable' pertinent information, even though the police pressed them for it. 'Tis indeed a slippery slope.

Howver, I heard on the news that some of this porn included infants, under the age of 18 months. I think a rope and a tree would be too good for these guys, doesn't sound like enough suffering.

Ya apparently there was live broadcasts and stuff... pretty sick freaks.

[scribblet]

Dear Shakeyhands,

While I of course have no issue and completely support the effort to stop those that prey on children, I wonder if this isn't more of a religious hunt on pornography in general?

Evidently Google balked at providing more than they felt was 'reasonable' pertinent information, even though the police pressed them for it. 'Tis indeed a slippery slope.

Howver, I heard on the news that some of this porn included infants, under the age of 18 months. I think a rope and a tree would be too good for these guys, doesn't sound like enough suffering.

Ya apparently there was live broadcasts and stuff... pretty sick freaks.

Sick indeed. Wonder if anyone would consider the death penalty for perverts who do this to infants, and hanging is too good for them. I suppose if we lose some privacy its worth it to catch these freaks.

[Drea]

Just put them in jail in the general population (child sex offenders are usually put in "protective custody") where the inmates will take good care of them (Kill the bastards!)

[geoffrey]

I'd be ok with a system that tracks known child porn websites and the users on them, much like what I think the Toronto Police are using now. Get warrant, go to the court and show the judge, be like we need to track users. I'm sure all judges would be ok with issuing a warrant for that. I am not ok with widespread reporting of everything you look up on google.

Think of what CSIS would think of me researching for some of my posts here:

"Gun smuggling into Canada"

"Smuggling of uniforms to Afghanistan"

"Afghanistan border security"

"Improvised Explosive devices"

"Terrorist tactics in Iraq"

"Muslim views on violence"

"Muslim extremists"

"Iraq defense capabilities"

"American military equipment"

All completely innocently researched but if that list was shown to CSIS or the FBI, I'd be for sure marked as a suspected terrorist. There is a civil liberties argument to be made on widespread reporting of everything you do on the internet. Child porn sites though, should be tracked and people that view these or contribute to them should be easily apprehended with some more resources to the issue.

Remember how long ago though was it when the Liberals tried to test the public opinion on allowing it for "Artistic Merit." Remember who's the only party that thinks age of consent should be 14? Definitely issues that need to be permenantly tied up before the natural governing party returns to power.

How about a child's Bill of Rights or something like that?

[gerryhatrick]

I'm not sure if I follow the 'greedy oppressive capitalist' comment. Do you mean Bill Gates? Developing software that will help track down sexual preditors is a great contribution. and I'm proud that it was the result of a Canadian initiative.

It's a shot at liberals and non-rightwingers. He's making the false argument that people left of center are against capitalism.

The dumb thing about Montys cheap shot is that Bill Gates is very socially conscious. He's over in Africa helping fight AIDS and involved in all kinds of lefty-type activities.

Silly me thought this would be a non-political post, but of course Monty can't post without taking a shot at his imagined enemies.

[sharkman]

I have to say I am uncomfortable with the following -

I guess we allk know that the U.S. Justice Department has gone to court to get access to Google search records to help prevent access to online pornography

While I of course have no issue and completely support the effort to stop those that prey on children, I wonder if this isn't more of a religious hunt on pornography in general? I wonder what the parameters are around "preventing access to online pornography"

This sicko had live broadcasting as he raped infants and you suspect a religious hunt? Good grief man, child porn is illegal and it has nothing to do with what the church thinks about it.

[Argus]

I have to say I am uncomfortable with the following -

I guess we allk know that the U.S. Justice Department has gone to court to get access to Google search records to help prevent access to online pornography

While I of course have no issue and completely support the effort to stop those that prey on children, I wonder if this isn't more of a religious hunt on pornography in general? I wonder what the parameters are around "preventing access to online pornography"

This sicko had live broadcasting as he raped infants and you suspect a religious hunt? Good grief man, child porn is illegal and it has nothing to do with what the church thinks about it.

No, he has a point. Why is every story on this about "child porn". It should be about "child molesters" or "child rapists". The focus of the problem is not people on the internet, it's people in real life with children - usually their own.

I find the almost religious fervour against "child porn" to be troubling. There are people who want to put others in prison for life for the "crime" of looking at a forbidden picture or video. I personally don't have a problem with people's fantasy lives, so long as they keep it out of the real world. The problem I have is with those who actually harm kids. And I can't help wondering why every time some child molester is arrested it turns out he had forty previous convictions, all of which netted him a few slaps on the wrist.

I mean, let's face it. The guy who got 3 1/2 years for operating this web site probably would have gotten much less time if he'd actually molested a child. Hell, murderers serve less than 3 1/2 years often enough, as do rapists. There's something frankly weird about us coming down like a ton of bricks on pitiful little internet porn addicts while doing little against violent criminals and sexual offenders.

[Drea]

I find the almost religious fervour against "child porn" to be troubling. There are people who want to put others in prison for life for the "crime" of looking at a forbidden picture or video. I personally don't have a problem with people's fantasy lives, so long as they keep it out of the real world. The problem I have is with those who actually harm kids. And I can't help wondering why every time some child molester is arrested it turns out he had forty previous convictions, all of which netted him a few slaps on the wrist.

Trouble is SOMEONE had to "pose" the child in order to take the picture, no? So there is no "innocent" fantasy when it involves children. You wanna look at kiddie porn -- make it up in your own head.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I'm not sure if I follow the 'greedy oppressive capitalist' comment. Do you mean Bill Gates? Developing software that will help track down sexual preditors is a great contribution. and I'm proud that it was the result of a Canadian initiative.

It's a shot at liberals and non-rightwingers. He's making the false argument that people left of center are against capitalism.

The dumb thing about Montys cheap shot is that Bill Gates is very socially conscious. He's over in Africa helping fight AIDS and involved in all kinds of lefty-type activities.

Silly me thought this would be a non-political post, but of course Monty can't post without taking a shot at his imagined enemies.

Since when is helping fight AIDS a lefty activity?

More accurately, appointing a royal commission to study the effects of AIDS on the public, insisting that it's not a gay/intravenousdrug use/third world disease, spending millions on bureaucats who spend their time behind closed doors only to come out with the result that "AIDS IS BAD, perhaps we should go over to Africa and help out", while the capitalists simply go over there themselves and get down to business - THAT would be a lefty activity

[Argus]

I find the almost religious fervour against "child porn" to be troubling. There are people who want to put others in prison for life for the "crime" of looking at a forbidden picture or video. I personally don't have a problem with people's fantasy lives, so long as they keep it out of the real world. The problem I have is with those who actually harm kids. And I can't help wondering why every time some child molester is arrested it turns out he had forty previous convictions, all of which netted him a few slaps on the wrist.

Trouble is SOMEONE had to "pose" the child in order to take the picture, no? So there is no "innocent" fantasy when it involves children. You wanna look at kiddie porn -- make it up in your own head.

Most of it is regurgitated stuff from the 70s anyway. I'm not saying I don't find it off-putting, but I don't think much of bestiality or people who stick jam jars up their backsides either. I don't think we should be putting them in prison, though.

[geoffrey]

Most of it is regurgitated stuff from the 70s anyway. I'm not saying I don't find it off-putting, but I don't think much of bestiality or people who stick jam jars up their backsides either. I don't think we should be putting them in prison, though.

Come on Argus. I tend to agree with you on most of those statements, we shouldn't arresting people for being 'different.' But I draw the line at when children are sexually exploited. You can't have child porn without child abuse, and people that enjoy looking at stuff knowing that children have been hurt and permenantly scared from this trauma are most definitely sociopaths that shouldn't be in our society.

[Argus]

Most of it is regurgitated stuff from the 70s anyway. I'm not saying I don't find it off-putting, but I don't think much of bestiality or people who stick jam jars up their backsides either. I don't think we should be putting them in prison, though.

Come on Argus. I tend to agree with you on most of those statements, we shouldn't arresting people for being 'different.' But I draw the line at when children are sexually exploited. You can't have child porn without child abuse, and people that enjoy looking at stuff knowing that children have been hurt and permenantly scared from this trauma are most definitely sociopaths that shouldn't be in our society.

As someone who has been arguing against censorship for decades, I know all the arguments of the anti-porn crowd. Even when the bible thumpers join in with the feminists, they always couch their arguments in the same way - not with moral imperatives about how disgusting the images are but in support of women's dignity, and against violence against women. For longer than I've been alive the censorship crowd has tried to show that looking at dirty pictures leads to nasty behaviour - and failed miserably. So when the anti-child porn craze started up and used, basically, the same arguments, I'm afraid I was not convinced. Looking at pictures of naked kids does not make you want to attack kiddies any more than looking at pictures of guys humping sheep makes you want to get into bestiality.

The argument that all child porn has to come out of the exploitation of children is only slightly better. Because Canada's laws are so broad that no actual children need to be involved for something to be labelled as child porn. Adults in schoolgirl outfits qualify, or adults playing underage types, as in movies - like, say, Porkies. Paintings, drawings and stories qualify as well. I once had a copy of Penthouse magazine which featured the notorious Tracy Lords when she was 15. That qualfies as child pornography too, though I rather doubt many paedophiles were ever attracted to it. She certainly didn't look very child like to me!

As for sociopathic, you're mistaken. Most of those I've read about who have been arrested for downloading or even uploading kiddy porn had never molested children (and believe me, the police check their history with a fine tooth comb). Since one would assume they are paedophiles (a psychologically diagnosed disorder, btw, not some willingly acquired perversion), the fact they hadn't ever molested children would seem to show they were not, in fact, socioaths.

In any event, I am not arguing for the legalization of material which exploits children. I'm simply saying that it makes no sense for society to spend a fortune locking up otherwise harmless and generally productive people who download some thirty year old images from the internet. If you really want to address children's safety then lock up the people who molest the children - for a VERY long time.

[gerryhatrick]

Since when is helping fight AIDS a lefty activity?

Since the track record of rightwingers is to care about little other than themselves I guess. So, long time now.

How about the Bush admin...removing funding in the fight against AIDS because a small part of that funding included condom distribution. Real nice.

Most rightwingers; although most would only admit it on anonymous forums, would be happy to see money against AIDS spent on other things. They think it's a gay/drug user disease and the world would be better off without them.

[Shakeyhands]

Most of it is regurgitated stuff from the 70s anyway. I'm not saying I don't find it off-putting, but I don't think much of bestiality or people who stick jam jars up their backsides either. I don't think we should be putting them in prison, though.

Come on Argus. I tend to agree with you on most of those statements, we shouldn't arresting people for being 'different.' But I draw the line at when children are sexually exploited. You can't have child porn without child abuse, and people that enjoy looking at stuff knowing that children have been hurt and permenantly scared from this trauma are most definitely sociopaths that shouldn't be in our society.

There is no question that we should vigourosly chase down child molesters and the whackos that fill the child porn world with images, my issue is with the people trying to change the laws and do searches on someone who say does like Jam jars up their arse or say looking at someone the same sex or whatever, allowing reports on those who search out porn, as opposed to kiddy porn, is a slippery slope

[sharkman]

There is an element here who are getting defensive about porn. There are very CLEAR laws about porn in Canada and you have no need to worry. But it appears some of you are almost reluctant to condemn child porn out of fear one day adult porn may be taken off the menu. Why are you worrying about this when our porn laws have been going the opposite way since porn has been allowed? It's okay to condemn kiddie porn and hope the guilty get sentences!!

But this case is not about child porn so much is it is about child RAPE. Anyone who rapes an 18 month old baby needs to be punished severely as a deterent to others who would grab a kid off the street. I can't understand why there is so much concern about the criminal and so little about the victims.

[Shakeyhands]

no one has said any such thing, no one here is supportive of any type of child porn. What is at issue is the further decline of privicy and the advance of the religious right into private issues, child porn excepted.

[Argus]

Since when is helping fight AIDS a lefty activity?

Since the track record of rightwingers is to care about little other than themselves I guess. So, long time now.

How about the Bush admin...removing funding in the fight against AIDS because a small part of that funding included condom distribution. Real nice.

Most rightwingers; although most would only admit it on anonymous forums, would be happy to see money against AIDS spent on other things. They think it's a gay/drug user disease and the world would be better off without them.

AIDS IS largely a gay/drug user disease. At least in North America. I'll go further and say it's largely a promiscuous-male-homosexual/drug user disease here. And yet we and the Americans spent more on AIDS research than cancer research. Huh? We spend ten times more on AIDS research than breast cancer research or prostate cancer research, despite the fact, far, far more people die of the latter diseases.

So yeah, I'd take funding away from AIDS research and put it on other types of research.