Concerns Over The Environment

Lost in Manitoba · August 22, 2003

I don't consider myself an environmentalist or an activist of any sort. I occasionally litter, I don't go out of my way to recycle, I sometimes leave the lights on when I leave, and I drive a lot and let the car idle when I go into the store. Despite this, one of my chief concerns is the state of the environment.

Is global warming real or is it a matter of 400yr weather cycles? And really, even if global warming is ficticious, wouldn't it be nice not to have smog alerts?

With environmentalism also comes sustainabillity. As in electricity (solar/wind). As in no longer depleting natural resources (fish stocks). As in smarter farming, not slash/burn/fertilize. As in not worrying about E.coli or feces in your tap water.

I have plenty of concerns about the environment and the lawmakers and business that affect it. Do you?

daniel · September 12, 2003

Nobody has responded to you because 1) they agree with you; and 2) their agreement with you is in conflict with their party-line affiliation.

Most of the people in with forum are either Alliance or PC supporters whose party policies are either opposed to what you are concerned about or are in denial that these are real problems.

Greg · September 12, 2003

Most of the people in with forum are either Alliance or PC supporters whose party policies are either opposed to what you are concerned about or are in denial that these are real problems.

You've been registered here for ONE day and you think that you can make these sorts of generalizations? Do the participants in this forum need to jump on every opportunity to affirm their support for the environment in order to convince you that they're not insensitive and immoral right-wingers?

Cameron · September 12, 2003

I'm a PC member and I have concerns about the environment. We do need to find alternatives. Just because you have an affiliation to a party doesn't mean that you agree with everything that the party says or does. We are allowed to have our own thoughts aren't we? Of course!

FastNed · September 12, 2003

Hi Lost, and hello daniel - welcome to the Forum.

There has been a literal explosion in human knowledge these last hundred years and perhaps we are merely beginning to scratch the surface of the unknown. What strikes me is that if we examine the thoughts of early philosophers, it's doubtful if mankind is more intelligent now rather then in the past, we just have a greater knowledge base.

An area(s) where we have not discovered much is that of Solar flares, Solar winds, gravitational fields (Lunar effects) and electromagnetic fields and the causal interrelationship between these forces (identical/different?) and our weather and, in fact human actions. Ask anyone who has worked in the liquor industry, law enforcement or medicine about the relationship between a full moon and nutty actions and brace yourself for an earful.

There are a number of weird correlations shown between sun spot/Solar flares and human activity; these may be statistical oddities but they repeat with predictable frequency so we may be more subject to electromagnetic (gravitational?) fields than we can explain at this time. Weather is one of the areas that appears in this category - statistical anomaly or unknown solar effects? We simply don't know the answers yet. Considering the scale involved and the relative insignificance of man, I suspect the Sun has more to do with our global climate than we.

And then we come to that political concept of "sustainability". It's very much a "First World" concept because until your civilization reaches a point where survival is no longer a question, you lack the leisure and the luxury to play with such a concept. In much of Asia and just about all of Africa, survival is the primary problem; when you spend 12 hours a day fighting nature to raise the food needed for survival of your family, 'sustainable' agriculture or 'save the rain forest' are not concepts which you have the leisure to consider.

Fish stocks are disappearing, perhaps from the actions of man - but not quite in the manner promoted in the popular press. Fact: anti-fur movements have stopped or greatly reduced the harvesting or 'slaughter' of seals (baby or otherwise). The seals are an essential element of the life cycle of the parasitic worm which infests the cod and pollack (and perhaps others) and the explosion in the seal population brought with it an explosion of the parasitic population. How much of the depletion in our fish stock comes from over-harvesting and how much from parasitic infestation? We don't know the answer!

I am not speaking of salt water when I state that most of the water in the world is unfit for human consumption. While e.coli is an significant problem, parasitic entities blind, cripple or kill far more people in the First World than all the infections flowing from our water taps. For a fraction of what is spent on 'political' programs, clean drinkable water could be provided to most of the population of the world.

Electricity, yes indeed, let's talk about electricity! All of the proposed alternative generation bright ideas appear to forget a basic fact - it has to be there when you flip the switch! A zillion wind generators or solar collectors do not solve one basic problem - the wind doesn't blow (except from politicians) and the sun doesn't shine at our command. When that problem is solved (generation on demand) let's talk - and, oh yes, please advise how we are to solve the NIMBY problem: "You are not going to put those ugly towers and transmission lines in MY neighborhood!"

I acknowledge the problems but I've yet to hear workable solutions to them.

daniel · September 12, 2003

Yes, I can make this kind of generalization after being a member for only one day. I've read enough posts to make that conclusion.

Lost in Manitoba has had four posts for three weeks without any responses - until today when I struck a chord.

Black Dog · September 12, 2003

Ask anyone who has worked in the liquor industry, law enforcement or medicine about the relationship between a full moon and nutty actions and brace yourself for an earful.

There have been studies on the effects of the full moon and behavior. there's been no correlation found, so it's likely that "full moon fever" (apologies to Tom Petty) is a byproduct of supersition and urban legend.

I acknowledge the problems but I've yet to hear workable solutions to them.

They are out there, but most governments and corporations are so enraptured with either being pro-growth (apparently for its own sake) and making a quick buck that sustainability falls by the way side.

Consider the current measure of economic well-being, the GDP. GDP is a straight-up measure of economic activity that does not consider the costs. We need to change how we measure growth in order to reflect the costs to ourselves, our society and the environment. We're running a environmental defecit due to mass consumtion and waste that is putting us in an increasingly untneable position.

Greg · September 12, 2003

Consider the current measure of economic well-being, the GDP. GDP is a straight-up measure of economic activity that does not consider the costs. We need to change how we measure growth in order to reflect the costs to ourselves, our society and the environment. We're running a environmental defecit due to mass consumtion and waste that is putting us in an increasingly untneable position.

Ok I'll bite: If we were to take into account the environment into our economic reporting, how would we do it? Is there anyone (preferably an economist) who is doing research into this area?

SirRiff · September 13, 2003

i have always been very very conscious of how i value the environment. i have never littered and recycle whenever possible. just common sense in my opinion.

the problem is that alot of people feel no personal accountabilty because the problem occurs so slowly its unlikely it will ever effect thier lifes in a concret way during thier time on earth. the problem shows up slowly in cancer rates, national parks becoming trashy, asthma rates increasing, and so on.

it pisses me off that we as a progressive nation cant come to a national concensus that we dont have any more land after this, and its much harder to clean a nation up then it is to not pollute in the first place. these are the kinds of things that great leaders should see and lead people on, things that the ordinary person with an ordinary job wouldnt think of or see ahead of time.

one of us on this thread will have a kid or grandkid who will suffer because of it.

hell, i think just being environmentally friendly as a nation will reap technological and efficiency benefits along teh way.

Sirriff

Cartman · July 11, 2004

Since I first watched a CBC story on fish farms and the sea lice problem, I have never eaten fish again YUK! I will take my chances with mad cow thank you very much.

Alberta environmental laws are pathetic compared to BC. Privatized liquor stores do not have to take back empty bottles and grocery stores do not have to take back any of the waste (plastics, bottles, cardboard etc) they produce. Essentially, you can waste as much as you want here without penalty. I am not a huge environmentalist either, but people do not even want to try the little things. I asked my condo association to create a recycling area inside the roomy building for the garbage and was told no way. At one point in time, Ralph was Minister of Environment :rolleyes: