REAL WOMEN

[betsy]

When hubby and I got together, my son was 7 and I took a year and a half off work.

I was bored stiff! My house was spottless, fresh cookies coming out of the oven at 3pm

dinner on the table by 5:30, all the laundry done...

Today I work 40 - 47 hours a week, my house is a disaster throughout the week and we all get together and clean it on the weekends.

I am much happier now than I was staying at home.

When I was staying at home, I went through a period of depression, didn't want to get out of my pj's at all. I felt I wasn't contributing, wasn't pulling my own weight, so to speak. (I've worked and earned my own money since I was 15yo)

Of course, this is only my experience and I have only one child. Easy Peasy IMO.

BTW, I wasn't envious of the moms because they stayed at home, but because they got everything given to them and I had to work at a crappy job with long hours and little pay and there was no way for me to afford a new vehicle or any special treat at all.

LOL there are days when I wish it were 1950 and nothing was expected of me except taking care of the children and hubby. Thankfully those days are few and far between.

I don't think that stay at home moms (with more than one child) work less, their work is simply more intangable.

As a working mom I still do exactly all the same stuff a non-working mom does, only I get it done on the weekends and after work.

My work load has pretty much doubled even though I have a man who contributes almost as much to the "household" chores as I do. I'm thankful I've met an understanding "liberal" man who does not feel it's beneath him to scrub the floors or the toilet (and he does a great job of it too!)

Please don't think I'm "slamming" stay at home moms. They are an invaluable part of our society. But I should also not be vilified for working outside the home and "abandoning" my child to the daycare system. In my case it's a choice I've made.

No, I'm not against women who work outside their homes. For a lot, it is a necessity.

I guess I lament those gone days during our parents' time....it will never be like that again. I'm also a romantic...so there you go.

[Black Dog]

You've made a sweeping statement about "misinformation" being given by REAL WOMEN and Fathers' Rights Groups. What "misinformation" are you referring to being given by both groups?

Please support your allegations.

How cute. You're getting creamed so you try to turn the tables. But here's the thing: I've already specifically pointed out groups that have been perpetuating ridiculous generalizations about feminists and feminsim, while you've done nothing but spout the same generalizations I've took issue with in the first place. Your pathetic diversions won't work.

[betsy]

You've made a sweeping statement about "misinformation" being given by REAL WOMEN and Fathers' Rights Groups. What "misinformation" are you referring to being given by both groups?

Please support your allegations.

How cute. You're getting creamed so you try to turn the tables. But here's the thing: I've already specifically pointed out groups that have been perpetuating ridiculous generalizations about feminists and feminsim, while you've done nothing but spout the same generalizations I've took issue with in the first place. Your pathetic diversions won't work.

You mean, you can't support your allegations.

[betsy]

You've made a sweeping statement about "misinformation" being given by REAL WOMEN and Fathers' Rights Groups. What "misinformation" are you referring to being given by both groups?

Please support your allegations.

How cute. You're getting creamed so you try to turn the tables. But here's the thing: I've already specifically pointed out groups that have been perpetuating ridiculous generalizations about feminists and feminsim, while you've done nothing but spout the same generalizations I've took issue with in the first place. Your pathetic diversions won't work.

I posted a source. And what did you say about it? "Betsy, check your source...yada-yada-yad"

You took the time to find the background of this Baxter guy (Elvis impersonator/Minister...big deal).

Since when do backgrounds automatically mean falsehood to statements?

What you should have done was find something to negate the allegations from CourtWatch.

Then I told you about the odd reaction of a womens' group spokeperson towards a man who was throwing his support behind the movement. What was your response?

You answered:

"Well, in my personal experience, even "femisist" men have a tendancy to barge in and dominate discussions with their views. Sometimes women just get tired of men telling them how to soleve their problems, y'know. I think this post from another discussion board sums it up."

It was not even a discusion board. It was a letter of support sent to the group!

Your view is terribly clouded by your obvious bias. Therefore, unless you can substantiate your allegations, your opinion, regarding this, imho, is not credible.

[Black Dog]

I posted a source. And what did you say about it? "Betsy, check your source...yada-yada-yad"

You took the time to find the background of this Baxter guy (Elvis impersonator/Minister...big deal).

Since when do backgrounds automatically mean falsehood to statements?

What you should have done was find something to negate the allegations from CourtWatch.

The guy is running around making unsubstansiated claims (when he's not dressing up as Elvis and proclaiming himself Archbishop of his own church): the women's shelters thing you posted was a great example: a laundry list of outrageous claims with absolutely no documetary evidence to support it. Even if he wasn't so clearly kooky, the fact he cites "evidence" but doesn't provide any is telling.

Then I told you about the odd reaction of a womens' group spokeperson towards a man who was throwing his support behind the movement. What was your response?

You answered:

"Well, in my personal experience, even "femisist" men have a tendancy to barge in and dominate discussions with their views. Sometimes women just get tired of men telling them how to soleve their problems, y'know. I think this post from another discussion board sums it up."

It was not even a discusion board. It was a letter of support sent to the group!

Whether it was a discussion board or a letter isn't really relevant. Way to miss the point.

Your view is terribly clouded by your obvious bias. Therefore, unless you can substantiate your allegations, your opinion, regarding this, imho, is not credible.

Yeah and you ain't biased. No sir, nobody here but us chickens.

Perhaps I should take a page out of your book and trot out some unprovable "anecdotes" to support my position.

[betsy]

Then I told you about the odd reaction of a womens' group spokeperson towards a man who was throwing his support behind the movement. What was your response?

You answered:

"Well, in my personal experience, even "femisist" men have a tendancy to barge in and dominate discussions with their views. Sometimes women just get tired of men telling them how to soleve their problems, y'know. I think this post from another discussion board sums it up."

It was not even a discusion board. It was a letter of support sent to the group!

Whether it was a discussion board or a letter isn't really relevant. Way to miss the point.

No, you're the one who's missing the point. You've automatically "reached" for an excuse to justify uncalled-for hostility and rudeness to someone due to his gender.

The last thing the Movement needs is for somebody to exploit it for whatever personal reasons they may have...using it to vent insensibly for whatever chips they do carry on their shoulders. Women have worked hard to have what we have gained so far.

[Black Dog]

No, you're the one who's missing the point. You've automatically "reached" for an excuse to justify uncalled-for hostility and rudeness to someone due to his gender.

The last thing the Movement needs is for somebody to exploit it for whatever personal reasons they may have...using it to vent insensibly for whatever chips they do carry on their shoulders. Women have worked hard to have what we have gained so far.

Well, considering you haven't provided any evidence of the incident you're referring to, it's kinda hard to make accurate judgements.

[piercj2]

I know that I am going to get blasted by this, especially by women, but I really beleive thtat women are just totally irrational human beings. This doesen't make them not capable of acheiving the same things that men can, it just makes them so annoying. I have never seen a group of humans (kindof generalized?) that really don't have a firm hold on thier own aspirations. Weather some woman is crying about some guy that doesen't love her (probably should have known that-women are terrible judges of character), going to school for a number of years to get prestigous degrees and then not even working, changing and modifying thier personality to any degree to get attention from guys, taking behind eachother backs about people they will immediately be nice to five secounds later, mnipulating and crying to get thier way, marrying someone because they are rich, or just acting bitchy, I really can't understand them. Nothing is consistend about women, i even emailed some random author about women and who they are, and they gave me this reply. Thier is no level of bad character that I women will not stoop to.

I just pasted the whole thing, her response, and then my entire letter

Jamie,

If you think women are confused, you are well on your way to understanding women. If you read my book "How to Get What You Want from Your Man Anytime" and David Wood's e-book "The Truth about Women" , you will have a very honest picture about who women are and why they behave the way they do. Young men and women are quite confused with good reason. Our society has placed many limits of behaviour and this certainly has affected the way that relationships occur and the extremely high divorce rate. If you are truly interested in having an honest successful relationship, you will do some research (see the books above) and also realize that the makeup and dress that adorn college girls today is a superficial way of attracting attention. You must look beyond the superficial. What do you want? A date, to get laid, a girlfriend, a wife? Get clear on your own intentions and you will have more success with women.

Love, Susan

-----Original Message-----

>From: Jamie Pierce <[email protected]>

>Sent: Mar 6, 2006 10:58 AM

>To: [email protected]

>Subject:

>

>Hey, I read your article on line and I liked it. I am a 22 year old

>male college student. Alot of the stuff that you said is very true,

>however, I am under the impression that most women, in thier heart,

>really dont even know what they want. Living in a college town, I have

>noticed that women will literally do anything for a guys attention. If

>you go out to a bar in my hometown it is not hard to tell that our

>society has evolved in the 21st century into girls that are caked with

>make up, wear tiny miny skirts, act flirty/bitcy to get attention, act

>differently around different guys to get thier attention, and any other

>physical body motion to attract attention (play with thier hair, look

>off to the side and then look back at a guy, at airheaded). When I ask

>my mom and older women they always comment that, "they can't beleif the

>way college girls dress." Also I have noticed that alot of girls I know

>date guys who are jerks, while alot of the good guys dont get dates.

>Then the girl complains that the guy is a jerk or they have a bad

>relationship. So many girls claim they want wise and sensitvive guys,

>however, deep down I think they like a bad, disrespectful guys. Above

>all of this is the fact that alot of girls who have great grades, and

>are very career oriented, really want nothing more than a soul mate and

>a family, while also, many women spend thousands of dollars on medical

>school, law school, and prestigous universities and never even enter the

>work world, or enter part time. My overall conclusion is that women,

>while alot of them are very book smart are really kindof irrational, and

>don't even have a firm grasp on thier own aspirations.

Susan Sheppard

Getting What You Want

Author of the book "How to Get What You Want From Your Man Anytime"

Relationship Coach

"I help people seeking sacred intimacy in a hot relationship, get what they want from each other so that they can experience more fun, more sex and less bickering. "

www.gettingwhatyouwant.com

818-414-6032

email: [email protected]

[Drea]

I know that I am going to get blasted by this, especially by women, but I really beleive thtat women are just totally irrational human beings.

This doesen't make them not capable of acheiving the same things that men can, it just makes them so annoying. I have never seen a group of humans (kindof generalized?) that really don't have a firm hold on thier own aspirations. Weather some woman is crying about some guy that doesen't love her (probably should have known that-women are terrible judges of character), going to school for a number of years to get prestigous degrees and then not even working, changing and modifying thier personality to any degree to get attention from guys, taking behind eachother backs about people they will immediately be nice to five secounds later, mnipulating and crying to get thier way, marrying someone because they are rich, or just acting bitchy, I really can't understand them. Nothing is consistend about women, i even emailed some random author about women and who they are, and they gave me this reply. Thier is no level of bad character that I women will not stoop to.

I just pasted the whole thing, her response, and then my entire letter

Jamie,

If you think women are confused, you are well on your way to understanding women. If you read my book "How to Get What You Want from Your Man Anytime" and David Wood's e-book "The Truth about Women" , you will have a very honest picture about who women are and why they behave the way they do. Young men and women are quite confused with good reason. Our society has placed many limits of behaviour and this certainly has affected the way that relationships occur and the extremely high divorce rate. If you are truly interested in having an honest successful relationship, you will do some research (see the books above) and also realize that the makeup and dress that adorn college girls today is a superficial way of attracting attention. You must look beyond the superficial. What do you want? A date, to get laid, a girlfriend, a wife? Get clear on your own intentions and you will have more success with women.

Love, Susan

-----Original Message-----

>From: Jamie Pierce <[email protected]>

>Sent: Mar 6, 2006 10:58 AM

>To: [email protected]

>Subject:

>

>Hey, I read your article on line and I liked it. I am a 22 year old

>male college student. Alot of the stuff that you said is very true,

>however, I am under the impression that most women, in thier heart,

>really dont even know what they want. Living in a college town, I have

>noticed that women will literally do anything for a guys attention. If

>you go out to a bar in my hometown it is not hard to tell that our

>society has evolved in the 21st century into girls that are caked with

>make up, wear tiny miny skirts, act flirty/bitcy to get attention, act

>differently around different guys to get thier attention, and any other

>physical body motion to attract attention (play with thier hair, look

>off to the side and then look back at a guy, at airheaded). When I ask

>my mom and older women they always comment that, "they can't beleif the

>way college girls dress." Also I have noticed that alot of girls I know

>date guys who are jerks, while alot of the good guys dont get dates.

>Then the girl complains that the guy is a jerk or they have a bad

>relationship. So many girls claim they want wise and sensitvive guys,

>however, deep down I think they like a bad, disrespectful guys. Above

>all of this is the fact that alot of girls who have great grades, and

>are very career oriented, really want nothing more than a soul mate and

>a family, while also, many women spend thousands of dollars on medical

>school, law school, and prestigous universities and never even enter the

>work world, or enter part time. My overall conclusion is that women,

>while alot of them are very book smart are really kindof irrational, and

>don't even have a firm grasp on thier own aspirations.

Susan Sheppard

Getting What You Want

Author of the book "How to Get What You Want From Your Man Anytime"

Relationship Coach

"I help people seeking sacred intimacy in a hot relationship, get what they want from each other so that they can experience more fun, more sex and less bickering. "

www.gettingwhatyouwant.com

818-414-6032

email: [email protected]

AW guys, it's not entirely your fault.

Both of you are quite young and youth tends to be "confused". Comes with the territory. Puppies are confused too, but they eventually grow up and become really good dogs LOL

For goodness sake, you're 22 - go get laid. The sad thing is, you will be getting laid for the feeling of power it gives you and the girl you lay with with be getting laid because she thinks she's supposed to. So be nice to her. Don't lie to her and tell her you love her just to get laid.

And as aside: women and girls have, for millenia, been the "property" of men. Their only worth was the "level" of man they could attract. Our media hasn't gotten out of the dark ages on this issue, just take a look at the images on our TV screens, in our magazines, etc. The media tells us that a girl's "worth" is in how good she looks, not whether or not she has a brain.

Sad isn't it.

I, thankfully, am no longer one of the "confused young ones". Really, I never was confused. Went to college, got a job, had a kid, met a great guy. Yup, in that order.

Cheer up Jamie, one day, when you grow up you'll meet a real woman. For now, just go have fun, you are waaaay to young to be thinking of mating for life.

[piercj2]

I am not really thinking about mating for life. And I can and do get laid relatively often. Its not a power trip for me either, its called being horney. Sorry for the brute honesty. The main thing is, I just want to meet a girl who is good hearted, so it can be a real freindship. Hookups get old, and they just serve to accomplish physical needs. I do, however think about my future, and I think it is smart too. I dont want to be one of the millions who hit a mid life crisis when thier 25 single, internet dating phone dating, in a dead end job, and really just unfulfilled. I want every year of my life to be fulfilling. And by the way, way to find a man, but what happend to the man you had the kid with. It would be good if people took a little more responsibility

[Drea]

I am not really thinking about mating for life. And I can and do get laid relatively often. Its not a power trip for me either, its called being horney. Sorry for the brute honesty. The main thing is, I just want to meet a girl who is good hearted, so it can be a real freindship. Hookups get old, and they just serve to accomplish physical needs. I do, however think about my future, and I think it is smart too. I dont want to be one of the millions who hit a mid life crisis when thier 25 single, internet dating phone dating, in a dead end job, and really just unfulfilled. I want every year of my life to be fulfilling. And by the way, way to find a man, but what happend to the man you had the kid with. It would be good if people took a little more responsibility

If you just have fun, get involved in stuff (whether it be sports, volunteering, the gym, etc) you will run into the woman of your dreams. The less pressure you put on yourself to find the perfect person, the more likely you are to run into her.

Funny, I am currently trying my darndest to find a woman for this single guy I know. He's 43, has his own business, no kids, never been married, and he's hot like crazy! This guy has travelled the world getting laid but now, at 43, he's realizing he doesn't want to be wild and single forever.

This guy is middle aged, you're not -- LOL 25 years old is not mid life. IMO 25 is still to young to get married. Wait until you're at least 30.

The man I had the kid with... Well, I got married at 18yo -- divorced at 21 (we didn't have kids together), moved away and instantly met my son's father. We dated for a few years and then I wound up pregnant. We were wild and crazy party people and I had no intention of marrying him (he was fun for partying, but not a suitable mate for life). I raised my kidlet on my own until I met a man (set up on a blind date, btw) I wanted to share my life with.

[Black Dog]

Comments like this:

know that I am going to get blasted by this, especially by women, but I really beleive thtat women are just totally irrational human beings. This doesen't make them not capable of acheiving the same things that men can, it just makes them so annoying.

Make me really doubt statements like this:

And I can and do get laid relatively often

.

Actually, scratch that. If women are willing to sleep with you in spite of your appalling attitude towards them, then maybe they are confused.

[piercj2]

I guess your life turned out ok, even though it really doesn't seem like you were carefully planning for your future. By the way, did you actually marry the guy you are with now, or do you just want to spend your life with him. Also, I personally think having children out of wedlock is irresponsible. I know of and hear of millions of moms who do this who end up barely being able to support themselves and thier kid, not giving the kid all the attention and nurturing he needs (bc does not have a dad) and often time the kid and the parent are miserable. I also find that many single parent (more often women) who have to take care of thier kid or kids are overly stressed, and are underpaid at work. In my opinion due to the breakdown of the traditional family in the U.S our society does not bring kids and adults up as well as we use to. I mean how many times do we hear on the news or see a miserbale divorce, a kid being violent at school, A rape by a teacher at school, kids getting into drugs, a murder, homosexual -lesbian households (am not really for this) and other terrible things that go on in our society. Living a responsible life and bringing a kid into a high income two parent family is important in our society.

[Concerned]

I know that I am going to get blasted by this, especially by women, but I really beleive thtat women are just totally irrational human beings. This doesen't make them not capable of acheiving the same things that men can, it just makes them so annoying. I have never seen a group of humans (kindof generalized?) that really don't have a firm hold on thier own aspirations. Weather some woman is crying about some guy that doesen't love her (probably should have known that-women are terrible judges of character), going to school for a number of years to get prestigous degrees and then not even working, changing and modifying thier personality to any degree to get attention from guys, taking behind eachother backs about people they will immediately be nice to five secounds later, mnipulating and crying to get thier way, marrying someone because they are rich, or just acting bitchy, I really can't understand them. Nothing is consistend about women, i even emailed some random author about women and who they are, and they gave me this reply. Thier is no level of bad character that I women will not stoop to.

I just pasted the whole thing, her response, and then my entire letter

Jamie,

If you think women are confused, you are well on your way to understanding women. If you read my book "How to Get What You Want from Your Man Anytime" and David Wood's e-book "The Truth about Women" , you will have a very honest picture about who women are and why they behave the way they do. Young men and women are quite confused with good reason. Our society has placed many limits of behaviour and this certainly has affected the way that relationships occur and the extremely high divorce rate. If you are truly interested in having an honest successful relationship, you will do some research (see the books above) and also realize that the makeup and dress that adorn college girls today is a superficial way of attracting attention. You must look beyond the superficial. What do you want? A date, to get laid, a girlfriend, a wife? Get clear on your own intentions and you will have more success with women.

Love, Susan

-----Original Message-----

>From: Jamie Pierce <[email protected]>

>Sent: Mar 6, 2006 10:58 AM

>To: [email protected]

>Subject:

>

>Hey, I read your article on line and I liked it. I am a 22 year old

>male college student. Alot of the stuff that you said is very true,

>however, I am under the impression that most women, in thier heart,

>really dont even know what they want. Living in a college town, I have

>noticed that women will literally do anything for a guys attention. If

>you go out to a bar in my hometown it is not hard to tell that our

>society has evolved in the 21st century into girls that are caked with

>make up, wear tiny miny skirts, act flirty/bitcy to get attention, act

>differently around different guys to get thier attention, and any other

>physical body motion to attract attention (play with thier hair, look

>off to the side and then look back at a guy, at airheaded). When I ask

>my mom and older women they always comment that, "they can't beleif the

>way college girls dress." Also I have noticed that alot of girls I know

>date guys who are jerks, while alot of the good guys dont get dates.

>Then the girl complains that the guy is a jerk or they have a bad

>relationship. So many girls claim they want wise and sensitvive guys,

>however, deep down I think they like a bad, disrespectful guys. Above

>all of this is the fact that alot of girls who have great grades, and

>are very career oriented, really want nothing more than a soul mate and

>a family, while also, many women spend thousands of dollars on medical

>school, law school, and prestigous universities and never even enter the

>work world, or enter part time. My overall conclusion is that women,

>while alot of them are very book smart are really kindof irrational, and

>don't even have a firm grasp on thier own aspirations.

Susan Sheppard

Getting What You Want

Author of the book "How to Get What You Want From Your Man Anytime"

Relationship Coach

"I help people seeking sacred intimacy in a hot relationship, get what they want from each other so that they can experience more fun, more sex and less bickering. "

www.gettingwhatyouwant.com

818-414-6032

email: [email protected]

Well Jamie, you are young and obviously just as confused as the girls you meet...and that's ok because its all part of growing up. And yes, women are very much pressured into the "looks" thing, despite if it is what they want or not. Scroll through a post on Belinda Stronach in this website and you will see that some men never grow out of this attitude!!

When I was in university I went through a stage, for about a year or two, where I decided I was just going to be my pure and simple athletic self. Most of my best friends were biology buffs, and I joined them in their earthy looks..gave up all the make up and the rest of it.

It was the deadest years of dating I've ever had ! I got more dates after my divorce at 40 then I did at 21 not wearing any makeup.

So I guess women have to present themselves regardless, and if you are truly looking for that good hearted girl, why don't you look at some of the ones that do not wear the makeup and the short skirts and ignore the rest.....

[Concerned]

I've mentioned from the topic Scheherezade that women had gained through the movement, but unfortunately we've lost some too.

It seems that now when we've supposedly acquire more "freedom", women seems to have been entrapped into a situation where there's palpable "pressure" to "rise" above that position in the kitchen which, a lot of women, suddenly find so shameful and degrading. Ironically, the pressure doesn't come from the men....but from fellow-women who show contempt and scorn to those who prefer to remain in their kitchens.

Why is it so surprising to find a lot of women preferring home and kitchen? I think it is our natural habitat. We're natural born nurturers.

Way back, it was a big deal that women had finally managed to get men to do their share with house chores. But lately, when you talk to women, most of them admit that they still do the bulk of chores at home. Some even confess that nothing had changed...their husbands still would not lift a finger when it comes to domestic chores, other than the traditional taking-out-the-garbage routine, or handling the BBQ.

The reason why a lot of women end up doing the chores is basically identical. Men are so clueless when it comes to cleaning...that either you put up with a sloppy job or end up doing the chore yourself. A lot of women cannot abide by the former, thereby they end up opting for the latter.

I think we've been had!

Now women do so much more in AND outside the house! They're stressed out and harried more than ever!

I don't know about you Betsy, so many of your posts are in line with Margraces comments above. What are you exactly and what do you really stand for?

Men are good at certain tasks at home and not at others. This is a fact most women have learned...men are not that adaptable around the homes, they have their limitations. However they have their strengths and are very good at certain stuff...mr. fix it stuff , the garbage, the remote control, you know what I mean.

For the rest of it you hire a housekeeper at 10 bucks an hour. Get an education and go out into the workplace and make $30 plus. Take a few risks, that is the downfall of women, they just don't want to do stick their necks out a bit and manage instead of letting their lives drive them.

When I said "I think we've been had!", I neglected to put a smiley to indicate it was a joke.

But yes, I believe in some points that womens' movements are fighting for (and I find that based on their objectives, REAL WOMEN is the group that actually represents me...for I share the same values).

So that's where I stand.

But going back to working women, I sense that:

Women who prefer and had chosen to stay at home to become TRADITIONAL wives and moms are somewhat made to feel that they are either being taken advantaged of or dominated by their spouses, that they are simpering morons who go along with the dictates of their husbands...and therefore do not have a voice in the matter of womens' rights agendas.

The movement had evolved into something that had unintentionally somehow put a great deal of pressure on all women, in a negative way. I guess this was not really the intention when the movement first started...but it had taken on a different route.

Concerned, please elaborate on this statement. I might've misunderstood what you mean so I'll keep my comment for now until I hear from you.

"For the rest of it you hire a housekeeper at 10 bucks an hour. Get an education and go out into the workplace and make $30 plus. Take a few risks, that is the downfall of women, they just don't want to do stick their necks out a bit and manage instead of letting their lives drive them."

Betsy, my point was in response to your statement:

...""The reason why a lot of women end up doing the chores is basically identical. Men are so clueless when it comes to cleaning...that either you put up with a sloppy job or end up doing the chore yourself. A lot of women cannot abide by the former, thereby they end up opting for the latter.""

If women are at home because they want to be at home choring away on household tasks and spending more time with the children, good for them, I'm all for it. But if they are resentful of the fact that men can't or won't do the work they have to do, then get a housekeeper and get out and take some risks and make some serious money. Women do not have to be slaves to their homes or their families, some of them choose to be and that is their choice. Its not that I think that men should not contribute, its just that we all know when it comes to domestic detail, many of them just don't have those talents. Nor do I have the talent to fix things and I hate taking out the garbage...so I have a nanny, on top of my Mr. Fix it.... It sounds almost like reverse feminism that I have to hire a women and keep her in a 10 buck an hour job, but for her she has no choice but to do what she does....she is a foreigner with language issues and does not wish to do much else.

So my point is, women, do your choring if you love it and if you don't, get some hired help, get an education, and get out and make a career for yourself. You can have both a successful and rewarding career and a happy family too, it is VERY possible.

[piercj2]

Women do have alot of expectation in our society that are oppresive to them, and that they do not deserve, and sometimes they are treated unfairly. Though, I still hold to what I think. I do think that it is hard to find a women with good character- it is a rartity. I am not saying this because I am bitter or angry, am just saying it because I beleive that it is true

[Concerned]

Women do have alot of expectation in our society that are oppresive to them, and that they do not deserve, and sometimes they are treated unfairly. Though, I still hold to what I think. I do think that it is hard to find a women with good character- it is a rartity. I am not saying this because I am bitter or angry, am just saying it because I beleive that it is true

well I guess you just need a new circle of friends !

Keep looking , you will find. There are many women of good character. And probably the ones you meet are just fine, but they are growing up too, and are playing the games that we all played in our twenties....part of this is just learning to be comfortable with who they are. Be patient, and spend the time getting comfortable with who you are, you will eventually find somebody who will appreciate you.

[geoffrey]

Women do have alot of expectation in our society that are oppresive to them, and that they do not deserve, and sometimes they are treated unfairly. Though, I still hold to what I think. I do think that it is hard to find a women with good character- it is a rartity. I am not saying this because I am bitter or angry, am just saying it because I beleive that it is true

well I guess you just need a new circle of friends !

Keep looking , you will find. There are many women of good character. And probably the ones you meet are just fine, but they are growing up too, and are playing the games that we all played in our twenties....part of this is just learning to be comfortable with who they are. Be patient, and spend the time getting comfortable with who you are, you will eventually find somebody who will appreciate you.

Oh ya, I know more women of good character than men of good character, thats for sure. Definitely just the wrong circle of friends.