The Motivated Ignorance of Trump Supporters

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Trump's economy tanked during covid.

The true test of leadership, is when a country's back is against the wall. He failed, pointed fingers. Voters remembered.

People fired Trump, because America needed Biden's steadying and predictable hands.

Trump is unpredictable. This has hurt him immensely where he still has a chance to get votes.

OMG you're stupid. I have no idea how I so grossly overestimated you prior to this.

THE ECONOMY TANKED BECAUSE WE WERE ALLEGEDLY FACING AN APOCALYPTIC VIRAL OUTBREAK.

When people stop going to work, because they're not allowed to go to work, the economy shrinks. IE, "tanks". Get it?

The true test of a leader in that scenario is: "Does bread keep getting to the table in this obliterated economy?" The answer was "YES!"

The second true test of a leader in that scenario (which is heavily dependent on the first test) is "Was civil obedience maintained", and aside from the violent riots that the Dems and CNN incited with their constant stream of lies and hiding of video evidence, the answer is again, "YES".

FYI your credibility has sunk to 2% of what it was before you posted in this thread. 

Edited June 27, 2024 by WestCanMan

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

His televised address should have followed, immediately.

If I may...

Hunter's laptop alone proves election fraud. It just does and that's an inescapable fact. Those CIA pr1cks...a few of which were actually working for the CIA at the time...lied their a55es off! And the laptop had been in FBI possession all along. They lied their a55es off too!

I can easily imagine Trump watching that riot and laughing...for a while. I'd bet that was his first reaction when he saw what was going on. But it got outta hand...surprise surprise...a female vet got shot dead and he put a halt to it. And the mob listened and did what he asked.

This reaction scares the pubies off Demoncrats. It scares all of the Globalist shills.

The public...here and in Europe...have seen enough abuse of power, culture and society. If you think the public is wound up here, you should check out East Germany. They ain't happy campers.

All those hundreds of thousands...from all over the USA...felt in their bones that the laptop was real and that the Libbies cheated...

And they were right...weren't they.

Edited June 27, 2024 by Nationalist

[WestCanMan]

19 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

If I may...

Hunter's laptop alone proves election fraud. It just does and that's an inescapable fact. Those CIA pr1cks...a few of which were actually working for the CIA at the time...lied their a55es off! And the laptop had been in FBI possession all along. They lied their a55es off too!

I can easily imagine Trump watching that riot and laughing...for a while. I'd bet that was his first reaction when he saw what was going on. But it got outta hand...surprise surprise...a female vet got shot dead and he put a halt to it. And the mob listened and did what he asked.

This reaction scares the pubies off Demoncrats. It scares all of the Globalist shills.

The public...here and in Europe...have seen enough abuse of power, culture and society. If you think the public is wound up here, you should check out East Germany. They ain't happy campers.

All those hundreds of thousands...from all over the USA...felt in their bones that the laptop was real and that the Libbies cheated...

And they were right...weren't they.

The theoretical comeback is "It was only 'former agents' who signed that letter, and who went on TV parading as 'informed professionals' for the one-party media".

But the fact is that it was current FBI agents who went around to social media giants and told them "Russian disinformation about a laptop is coming out, you need to ban it", so the FBI actually was directly involved in the disinformation campaign. 

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The theoretical comeback is "It was only 'former agents' who signed that letter, and who went on TV parading as 'informed professionals' for the one-party media".

But the fact is that it was current FBI agents who went around to social media giants and told them "Russian disinformation about a laptop is coming out, you need to ban it", so the FBI actually was directly involved in the disinformation campaign. 

Also quite true.

There is no rational way to argue against the obvious here...although...a lot o' people try. Its a joke now though. The whole thing is one tragic joke. Unfortunately...the joke's on the entire population because...

NOBODY is better off now, than they were under the Trump presidency.

[WestCanMan]

16 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Unfortunately...the joke's on the entire population because...

NOBODY is better off now, than they were under the Trump presidency.

And TBH, the Dems have been destroying the fabric of democracy for the past 8 years now, minimum. It's debatable if there even is democracy in the US now. 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Dems and the FBI went on a lies & crimes spree together.

Thats fair and am open to believing it, but until you provide a cite, its nothing but hearsay.

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

HAS THE FBI BEEN CAUGHT

I honestly haven't seen anything concrete that points to this being the case. Like I said, am open to be proven wrong, which you have failed to do.

Your "OMG, how could you not know this?!" histrionic fit won't do as well as simply providing a cite. 

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

That's a CNN opinion

Its not a CNN opinion, its a common sense opinion. I don't watch CNN, unless looking for a chuckle.

They border on being more of a tabloid than anything remotely news worthy.

Common sense as a leader, would be to address your country immediately during a crisis, to bring reassurance. It also communicates your intentions, clearly and concisely.

You can't complain about left leaning politicians embracing murky waters, then have Trump dive in head first, and scuba dive.

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

TRUMP ABSOLUTELY DID CALL FOR PEACE SEVERAL TIMES. TRUMP ABSOLUTELY DID DO THAT.

No immediate televised address. You're ignoring that his responsibility is to an entire country.

Again, as per above, am happy to be proven wrong on this, as I simply haven't seen one, but one may exist.

You have yet to deliver, on what would be an effortless means of proving me wrong, if he did in fact immediately address the country in a televised address.

This isn't a "narrative". Its part of the presidents job. Calm the situation, and reassuring the country that all steps will be taken to regain order, especially since this was a self inflicted crisis.

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

And you're doing that while accusing others of being ignorant?

I don't live in the US, and don't watch much American news, as a result.

I have no shame in my game in not knowing every nook and cranny of this American political situation, as know enough to have an educated debate. I know more about global politics than you do, and am confident I speak more languages and have traveled to more places, adapted to more cultures than you have.

All the more reason for you to provide cites, that overwhelmingly would prove my points wrong.

You have yet to do so, which looks rather suspicious on your end.

I can easily provide cites for my stances. Name one, and will gladly do so.

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Quick question

I don't follow much US news, or much news to begin with. You're deflecting, because you have nothing to bring to the table.

Like Don Lemon telling Ramaswamy that he wasn't black and hadn't lived the "black experience", which sounds like something an escort would offer, vs discrediting a strong opinion against you.

When I do watch the news however, I trust sources like Ground news, and any source that provides me as objective of information as possible. That rules out Fox and CNN, and any other extreme left or right agency.

I will watch both, for entertainment though.

I like and need to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. I will trust a source that provides this for all candidates.

[impartialobserver]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

especially since this was a self inflicted crisis.

You can't honestly blame Trump for not taking responsibility. Modern politicians simply do not have the DNA for this. The Stop the Steal march was his idea. The fact that some went too far is somewhat his fault. 

[WestCanMan]

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Thats fair and am open to believing it, but until you provide a cite, its nothing but hearsay.

That's just sea-lioning at this point. Honestly if you've ever watched the news you should know that the FBI was caught committing crimes, it's no small thing:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/fbi-attorney-admits-altering-email-used-fisa-application-during-crossfire-hurricane#:~:text=Former FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith%2C 38%2C pleaded guilty,H. Durham%2C Special Attorney to the Attorney General.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/secret-fisa-court-issues-highly-unusual-rebuke-fbi-mistakes-n1103451

• Rosemary Collyer, presiding judge on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, said in the unusual public order that the report "calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable." She ordered the FBI to explain in writing by Jan. 10 how it intends to remedy those problems. [like I said - as if she's their Gr 6 teacher]

  Collyer said the FBI's handling of the Page case "was antithetical to the heightened duty of candor" required by the law that established the surveillance court. Judges on the court rely entirely on the government's submissions. Because they are the only documents the court sees, the government has a heightened duty of candor, she said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/01/10/fbi-director-christopher-wray-outlines-surveillance-reforms/4432312002/

• FBI Director Christopher Wray outlined a series of proposed reforms Friday aimed at bolstering public confidence in sensitive surveillance operations in wake of a damning report that revealed flaws in how the bureau handled wiretap applications for a former Trump campaign aide.  

  In a filing ordered by the chief judge of the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, Wray pledged that the bureau would overhaul its training program for agents and lawyers to ensure that information used to support future surveillance applications is complete and properly vetted.

  The plan comes more than a month after the Justice Department's inspector general identified 17 inaccuracies in requests to wiretap former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser Carter Page in 2016 and 2017. The surveillance of Page, whom the FBI believed was conspiring with the Russian government, was conducted as the FBI investigated Russia's efforts to meddle in the 2016 presidential election.

 

Keep in mind that Clinesmith was nothing more than a fall guy.

This particular crime:

• The CIA sent emails to the FBI informing them that Carter Page's "unusual Russian contacts" were due to the fact that he was spying for the CIA. This happened BEFORE THE FIRST FISA COURT APPLICATION. The FBI chose not to inform the FISA court of Page's CIA involvement, and used his contacts with various Russians as a reason for getting the first warrant to spy on Trump & co. As you know, the Dems and FBI made a show trial of this
• Due to the heavy protection of "sources and methods", the names of spies and what they're doing is never supposed to be made public, but eventually Page's name was leaked as a nefarious individual, likely a spy for Russia/traitor to America. He threatened to sue for libel. I don't know if he ever did.
• The top 4 FBI officials, who were all aware of Page's CIA connections at the time, all signed off on FISA request #1. That's 4 crimes right there. Not all of them were still employed to sign off on the 3 subsequent renewal applications, but basically the 4 top FBI officials involved in the case signed off on each one. So while there were only 4 per application, there were more than 4 different FBI criminals who signed them.
• After the 3rd warrant was approved to spy on Trump, Page finally came fwd and told the world that he was actually a spy for the CIA. The FISA court found out about it the same time as the Russians and everyone else.
• In order to blow past Page's statement, and get the 4th warrant to spy, the FBI submitted another request with with the CIA's email about Page, but it was altered to say [paraphrasing] "Page is NOT a spy for the CIA". 

So multiple crimes were committed to get these warrants to spy - if you believe that presenting false evidence to a judge is a crime - but only 1 guy took the fall for everyone, and that guy was sentenced to nothing.  Zero days in jail, and he never even lost his license to practice law. 

 

The FBI are known liars and criminals from the top down, but nothing is ever going to happen about it. They work hand-in-hand with the Dems, and the Dems call all the local PD's in the US a bunch of racist losers, while Hollywood (Dem sycophants all) and TV portray the FBI as the world's most effective, professional police force. 

 

FYI when the federal police force is under one-party rule, isn't that the sign that democracy is dead?

[Guest]

15 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

but nothing is ever going to happen about it.

One of the laws of power. Get others to do the work for you.

This includes your dirty work.

Trump had his hand in the cookie jar, and demonstrably so.

He speaks power, but doesn't understand how power works.

Even if the officials you pointed to were indicted on crimes, it still wouldn't incriminate the entire organization. You wouldn't be able to prove it, other than via hearsay. 

Powerful people know how to keep their hands clean.

The only thing this proves is that Trump is a master at keeping his hands dirty making it easy to punish him for it.