NDP = Communism... is that what 2 million canadians want?

[BubberMiley]

They've reduced taxes?

Manitoba's top Provincial Tax rate is a whopping 17.4% and it kicks in at only $65,001. Manitoba's Basic Personal Amount is only $7734. Were taxes actually higher than this?

The top rate hasn't changed, but they reduced the middle rate modestly about two years ago.

How do you keep your best and brightest there if you are soaking them in taxation?

Stinky bud at about $175 an ounce and a 2500 sq-ft house in a nice neighbourhood for less than $200k.

[Hicksey]

I'd like to know why you think that last quote is wrong/bad ? I'm not judging you by the way or anything.

In a communist world, there is no "wealthy to live off and no elitist leaders. The whole point of living isn't trying to amass capital (hence control over others) anymore, it's to enrich your life. I don't know about you but working 4 days a week with 7 hrs shifts while learning and understanding the world better sounds pretty sweet to me. The problem I think people have is that they look at a communist world through capitalist eyes. I know I'm opening a can of worms here but I'd like to keep the flames to a minimum.

So no motivation to actually work. I know if communism came to Canada, I'd never lift a finger.

I can tell you right now, that people aren't equal. Give up on this. Some people are better than others. They need to be paid and have status accordingly to encourage those below to work their way up to that level. Otherwise, economic collapse happens. I'm sure 4 day weeks at 7 hours would be nice... especially when your living in a straw hut with no TV or car because the country is broke and nothing is being manufactured.

Where do you think all the stuff in your life comes from? Thin air? No, people work to make that.

Look at the Soviet Union. Is that the life you want to live? If so, Cuba awaits your arrival. Thats what communism is really, poverty for everyone.

Geoffrey, you nailed it.

There's no incentive for greatness. The few that do things because they believe it is what is right will still achieve will continue to do that. But most people are driven by knowing there will be a reward beyond the status quo to drive them to go above and beyond what is required of them. Without that system, society will flounder in mediocrity.

If you think you'll still have a nice house and car when the dust settles in the Layton Utopia, you're sadly mistaken. You'll be working four days a week and seven hours a day for no more than the average welfare recipient gets today. I may not have much more than that in a material sense, but I still have immeasureably more now because I have hope that my future holds better days. Take that away and I have nothing.

[BubberMiley]

That's why I think the NDP has realized it has to focus its resources in terms of social programs. They know that the ability to tax is at its max--beyond it in many jurisdictions. But social programs have to be strong to protect those who can't help themselves. This means disabled people, sick people, people who are mentally ill and can't hold a job.

Would you like to see these people living in back alleys and bus shelters? In a country as wealthy as Canada, that shouldn't be necessary. It's not even good for the economy in general and probably winds up costing you more in the long run than it takes to pay for a room and three squares.

[ritamd]

I can tell you right now, that people aren't equal. Give up on this. Some people are better than others.

ALL people are equal some people are just better at doing things other peoples are not and visa versa!!!!!!

[Montgomery Burns]

We remain in the forefront of the people’s struggles : for labour rights, social justice and the environment; defending the rights of minorities, women, gays and lesbians; fighting for youth and students.

The struggle of the Canadian people for democracy, sovereignty, peace and social advance is essentially a political struggle against big business and its control of the Canadian State. The interests of the vast majority of Canadians are in conflict with the anti-democratic, neoliberal policies of the transnationals and the banks.

...offering a clear and consistent vision of a socialist Canada, where the priority is people’s needs, not corporate greed

Actually the last quote is from the official platform of the Communist Party of Canada.

Both loathe private business and both want an unmotivated population where everyone scrapes by from month to month with table scraps from the wealthy (but lives in subsidized housing) elitist Dear Leader.

I'd like to know why you think that last quote is wrong/bad ? I'm not judging you by the way or anything.

In a communist world, there is no "wealthy to live off and no elitist leaders. The whole point of living isn't trying to amass capital (hence control over others) anymore, it's to enrich your life. I don't know about you but working 4 days a week with 7 hrs shifts while learning and understanding the world better sounds pretty sweet to me. The problem I think people have is that they look at a communist world through capitalist eyes. I know I'm opening a can of worms here but I'd like to keep the flames to a minimum.

The dictators are always wealthy in a totalitarian society. They keep the riches and give scraps to the masses. And it is human nature to "enrich your life" by amassing capital. Everyone would like to work only 28 hrs a week, but look at how well France's 35 hour work week worked out...

[lost&outofcontrol]

So no motivation to actually work. I know if communism came to Canada, I'd never lift a finger.

I can tell you right now, that people aren't equal. Give up on this. Some people are better than others. They need to be paid and have status accordingly to encourage those below to work their way up to that level. Otherwise, economic collapse happens. I'm sure 4 day weeks at 7 hours would be nice... especially when your living in a straw hut with no TV or car because the country is broke and nothing is being manufactured.

Where do you think all the stuff in your life comes from? Thin air? No, people work to make that.

Look at the Soviet Union. Is that the life you want to live? If so, Cuba awaits your arrival. Thats what communism is really, poverty for everyone.

NOTE: I'm also replying to Hicksey here.

Your definition of communism is off, Cuba and the soviet union were state run capitalist countries and not communist countries. People may not be born physically/intellectually equal but why this be a reason for some to spend a life of misery ? It's like nationalism, why should people be proud of were they were born and think they are entitled to more just because they were born in a "developed" country ?

As for living in a straw hut, almost half the population of the world either lives in one or would be happy to have one.And why would you not want to work ? Spend 2 months on your ass doing nothing, you'll be happy to work after that. It's human nature to want to work and better yourself. For materiel things, communism would work in a system of reciprocal altruism. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours basically.

Again, I think people need to remove themselves form a capitalistic mindset to better understand communism. Communism isn't a totalitarian one-party state running the economy and controlling citizen’s lives where political rights are repressed like it was in the soviet union. Stop accepting the status quo and start questioning the "establishments". You'll only better yourselves and what you learn can't really hurt.

Alright, I'm done. Hope I didn't sound nuts.

[uOttawaMan]

Scary pet projects like what? Daycare? That sends chills down my spine.

I didn't say the pet projects were scary, I was saying the amount of money they would rape us for is scary. Socialism is obsolete, the United States didn't become the most powerful and innovated nation in the world because they micro-managed the economy.

Your right.. China and Japan are now about to take the most powerful and innovative nations titles and run with them.

[margrace]

Scary pet projects like what? Daycare? That sends chills down my spine.

I didn't say the pet projects were scary, I was saying the amount of money they would rape us for is scary. Socialism is obsolete, the United States didn't become the most powerful and innovated nation in the world because they micro-managed the economy.

Your right.. China and Japan are now about to take the most powerful and innovative nations titles and run with them.

Saw an American documentary not too long ago on a town somewhere just south of Chicago. The people were living in huts with mud floors, no windows, all boarded up, no local jobs, no grocery stores, of course the people were all black. How long before this comes back to haunt them.

[scribblet]

I can tell you right now, that people aren't equal. Give up on this. Some people are better than others.

ALL people are equal some people are just better at doing things other peoples are not and visa versa!!!!!!

Sad to say but they are not. Not all people have the same capabilities, some people have much higher IQs than other people, some people will always do better than others, thats humanity, we are not all born the same.

We can provide equality of opportunity and publivc education, but we cannot provide equality of outcome. We we can provide a social safety net, but if we equalized all people at the same level, with no chance for improvement or financial success - then that is communism.

[BubberMiley]

We can provide equality of opportunity and publivc education, but we cannot provide equality of outcome. We we can provide a social safety net, but if we equalized all people at the same level, with no chance for improvement or financial success - then that is communism.

That's pure anthill communism, and I don't think anybody has that in mind. I don't even think we can provide equality of opportunity--nor should we even attempt that. I think the NDP these days is more about providing opportunities where they are affordable and practical, and providing a social safety net to those who need it, not those who just don't want to work.

[Spike22]

Scary pet projects like what? Daycare? That sends chills down my spine.

I didn't say the pet projects were scary, I was saying the amount of money they would rape us for is scary. Socialism is obsolete, the United States didn't become the most powerful and innovated nation in the world because they micro-managed the economy.

Your right.. China and Japan are now about to take the most powerful and innovative nations titles and run with them.

Saw an American documentary not too long ago on a town somewhere just south of Chicago. The people were living in huts with mud floors, no windows, all boarded up, no local jobs, no grocery stores, of course the people were all black. How long before this comes back to haunt them.

The US is in a definite downward spiral as a world leader especially regarding human rights and living conditions. They have everything from the worst possible poverty to the richest people in the world. Luckily us Canadians only see places like Disney World and get the hell out of Hicksville.

All imperilastic countries reign comes to an end sometime (The Romans, Greeks, Britain, France). I think after 911 their focus and ecomony is so geared towards anti terrorism that social programs have taken a back seat. I think the bubble will bust on their economy when people realize the huge deficits are unmanagable and they have to repay this debt. When their ecomomy goes into the dumpster big time their social programs will have to be revamped and become more of a social state like Sweden or us...

[Hicksey]

I can tell you right now, that people aren't equal. Give up on this. Some people are better than others.

ALL people are equal some people are just better at doing things other peoples are not and visa versa!!!!!!

No, they're not equal. Some people are better than others. Some are smarter in other areas that others are not. We reward those who achieve because in the end we all reap the reward for their hard work.

People make the false assumption that equal opportunity means equal outcome. But reality tells us that conditions often exist where people that put in the same effort won't get the same results because one will work smarter than the other, or because one will put in more overall effort than the next. People who go above and beyond, this means in all aspects not just how hard they work but also how smart they work, should reap increased rewards for their better work and ingenuity.

[concerned citizen]

I believe that it is a moot point because the NDP will never come into power federally. As we have seen in past elections you need Ontario in order to form the gov't and Ontario will never forget what Bob Rae and the NDP did to it for the brief time they were in office.

According to the latest poll the NDP are in a "dead heat" with the liberals in Ontario.

As a side note, I still don't understand all this hate towards the former Rae government especially with the government workers. He at least saved their jobs, Harris just cut them out of the budget altogether.

I wouldn't put too much into that poll. That poll had the NDP leading in Ontario and yet they only rec'd about 19.5% of the Ontario vote in the election itself.

The reason for the hate of the Rae gov't is that he mismanaged everything and spent money that the province didn't have. But that's more for the provincial forum.

The poll said that it's accurate 19 times out of 20. I think this is the 20th time. Can't see how in a couple of weeks with nothing really going on how they could almost double their support. Just doesn't make sense.

[SamStranger]

if you add up the votes for people who Agree with me, and people who somewhat agree, it kills the ammount of people who flat out said No, so that proves im not " on my own" in the theory of commusism and NDP.

ps: that fucker Layton better not stop the GST cut.

[margrace]

if you add up the votes for people who Agree with me, and people who somewhat agree, it kills the ammount of people who flat out said No, so that proves im not " on my own" in the theory of commusism and NDP.

ps: that fucker Layton better not stop the GST cut.

And Mr. Harper had better not cut the GST rebate to senior citizens and lower income people

[Toro]

It blew me away when someone on this site mentioned that the NDP was the closest party to Communism. I think thats a fair statement.

You're a funny guy Sam.