Tories create committee to scrap gun registry.

[IPSC STORM]

This side doesn't respect THAT side's opinion.

That side doesn't repect THIS side's opinion.

This argument could go on and on and on and on, never to be resolved.

Fixer1, you seem to have a hate on for city folk. Too bad. Most city folk have some country roots! Me included.

IPSC STORM, your just angry.

Why don't I "like" handguns? They serve only one purpose -- the harming of a human being.

Comparing computers and guns is simply ridiculous. My computer can't "go off" accidentally and maim me... if I walk into a bank with a laptop, it's not very threatening LOL.

Yes, the internet was invented by the military. So was the helicopter, but it has more uses than one. Guns have ONE purpose -- to propel a lead or steal pellet at incredible speeds into something. "Something" could be a living thing, a piece of paper, or a clay plate.

Handguns should be banned. Period. Anyone caught with a handgun should receive an automatic 2 year sentence. Period.

Would this get the guns out of the hands of criminals? IMO it would. The more difficult firearms are to get, the less likely the gangbanger is going to have one. Simple logic. If there is only 6 of one thing (instead of 60,000) less people would have it.

Rifles for hunting? Different story altogether.

Like I said before it would be pretty darn difficult to hide a long barrel whilst strolling in the mall.

I agree that the gun registry was a stupid idea and it should be scrapped -- we in Canada have always had to register our rifles.

THis is my last post on this subject.

Cheers!

I sure am glad this was your last post on the subject because it is JUST TOO STUPID!!

Handguns or any firearm DO NOTJUST GO OFF!!

Computers are used to ROB MORE MONEY than any firarm ever has.......

Oh and the registration of rifles STARTED IN 1998!! If you do not know EVEN THAT little tidbit of information on the subject at hand...........then you lack the very basic knowlege to talk about this subject.

As such any debate with you is USLESS as you do not have a CLUE!!

You say Guns have ONE purpose..............then go on to list THREE possibilities!! LOL!! Yep your logic is sure on the ball!!

LOL!!

Damn but you ANTI gun nuts are a JOKE!!

[Hollus]

I have my guns for sport and for varmint control. I live in the country roughly 45 miles from any large city. I guess I would also have to say my guns are for my family's safety because the policing of rural areas is not wht you would call fast. There are many times during a day that police responce even to an emergency could be 30-60 minutes away. Now, yes I am a bit of a do everything myself type person, and that is because I have to be. Not so long ago most Canadians were this way because they had to be as well. Our country is not fully settled and yes there are many more wild areas then there are civilized ones.Why is it that the stuffy fat headed liberal city dwellers think that only what they want counts. Maybe if some of these panty waists would learn that sometimes being a man, is also standing up to things. Those who whine run and hide, when violence is around them, should be ashamed of them selves because if people stood up to these people, they would not be in your faces all the time. Those will say it is the job of the police to catch them, forget that police can not be everywhere. The troble is everyone is afraid to act, and that is exactly why these punks get away with all they do.

Just because your stupid enough to run towards a hail of gunfire and get yourself killed doesn’t make people who react naturally cowards. I welcome you to move to a city and practice your vigilante ways; you wouldn’t last a second. It’s not like the movies, where Bruce Willis battles through a dozen marauding hoods and prevails as the hero. The last time someone tried to dissuade a gun wielding hood in Vancouver he got shot in the head. When a bullet is fired on a busy street you get your fucking head down! ‘Cause you don’t know why or where its coming from.

So yes I have my guns, I would never use them in a criminal way, but you can be assured that id you are my neighbour and some one is attacking you, I will be running to help you defend against thius attack. Not hiding under cover waiting for it to be over with. Yes many will say, I am crazy for getting involved, but I say I would be crazier not to. Some things are worth risking your life for. Being able to be free and feel good about my life and my beliefs is one of the things I think is worth fighting for.

I wouldn’t so much call you crazy, maybe just narrow minded. That you would grab your hunting riffle and shoot out your window(or whatever) with the element of surprise, at a violent druggie trying to invade your neighbors home; that doesn’t equate to unarmed citizens defending against surprise outbreaks of gunfire from thugs.

People like Margrace who think no one needs guns except the police, are only kidding themselves. The police can not protect you all the time. You do need to have a back bone some where in you to at times stand up and take control of your own fate. When people in Toronto start tackling these gunman when they start their rampages, and stand op against the neighbourhood bullies. Then you will have safer streets. If you are waiting for the police to do it all for you, then you will have what you have now.

Ridiculous. Can you picture that? -This is channel 10 reporting: Gunfight broke out on downtown street this afternoon. Bystanders immediately dropped their shopping bags and lunged their unarmed bodies at the assailants. And then rainbow colored monkeys started leaping out of everyone’s asses.

The choice is yours. But registering law abiding people with guns is not the answer. It is like taking the roaster out of the hen house when the fox comes. Then there is no protection until the farmer comes. How many hens die while they wait for the farmer? I do not know but plain old country sense is what the city people need.

Uhh? I hope 'plain old country sense' is more intelligent than what you’ve proposed. Don’t forget that the cities population is largely fed by rural areas, so the people are not that disconnected from rural life and crime. I’ve yet to find a rural town that does not have at least a couple violent home grown criminals that the locals are unable to deal with.

The gun registry was not a problem for me at first and I registered all my guns several times. It was when time after time they kept losing the data and always asked for it to be done again and again, that I had problems with it. After 4 attempts I managed to get one gun registered and the others thye could not say it they made it to the data base. 6 months later I found that they all did make it, but they again lost the data and were asking me to register again. Well, I did comply the last time, and I mean the last time. I have all the paper worlk I did for every attempt, just so I could prove I did what I was supposed to do. Now I am glad to hear the registry will be long gone. I do not care if they have a record of my guns or not. I have all the serial numbers and they are always in a gun safe and amunition is kept in a different house safe. If they are ever stolen I can give them all the information they need if they ever find my guns to identify them. Now do I sound like I am a criminal trying to subvert attempt to have weapons?

So your problem is not with the gun registry but with the bureaucracy that’s prevented it.

[fixer1]

Hollus

You probably are what I would call a problem. You take simple things that are said and then try to make them fit some wild idea you have. That makes you a big problem. It is people of that type that make it harder for anyone who would do things. I never said I would shoot out from the window of my house. Where did you even get that. I have lived in the city and yes I have stood up to gang bangers. I am still here they are not. No I did not kill them. They simply went away to both people who do not stand up to these types.

Do not get me wrong though I would not want to stand up to them unarmed if they had any time to plan their responce. Yes I have been shot at. Would I do it again? Yes, when you do the good thing and the right thing it is easy to say you would do it again. Yes I would expect people who are shopping to jump in and help if someone tacked a gunman, but I can never count on it.

I do not hate city people, I feel sorry for them not understanding that they first must learn to help themselves before any police agency can finish the job. The plane that was hijacked and the people fought the hijackers and crashed before it could be used to fly into a building, do you understand that I stand proud of each and everyone of them, they did the smartest thing they could, and unfortunately paid the ultimate price. Just by what I have seen of you here, I am sure you would just sit there and not lift a finger, as that is what you have police for right?

Also the problem with gangs does not only come when the shooting starts. It starts with bully's picking on smaller younger kids and grows from there. When was the last time you decided to stop an act of one kid bullying another? That is where it al starts, but that is not your problem is it?

So you can take what I say and try and find some extreme situation to denigrate it, but just remeber the sometime when you are all alone on the street at night and some punks are following you calling you pussy etc. It may well be me who is driving by and sees it. I will stop and help you out of that situation, even though I am endangering myself. Can you say the same?

[Hollus]

Hollus

You probably are what I would call a problem. You take simple things that are said and then try to make them fit some wild idea you have. That makes you a big problem. It is people of that type that make it harder for anyone who would do things. I never said I would shoot out from the window of my house. Where did you even get that. I have lived in the city and yes I have stood up to gang bangers. I am still here they are not. No I did not kill them. They simply went away to both people who do not stand up to these types.

Do not get me wrong though I would not want to stand up to them unarmed if they had any time to plan their responce. Yes I have been shot at. Would I do it again? Yes, when you do the good thing and the right thing it is easy to say you would do it again. Yes I would expect people who are shopping to jump in and help if someone tacked a gunman, but I can never count on it.

I do not hate city people, I feel sorry for them not understanding that they first must learn to help themselves before any police agency can finish the job. The plane that was hijacked and the people fought the hijackers and crashed before it could be used to fly into a building, do you understand that I stand proud of each and everyone of them, they did the smartest thing they could, and unfortunately paid the ultimate price. Just by what I have seen of you here, I am sure you would just sit there and not lift a finger, as that is what you have police for right?

Also the problem with gangs does not only come when the shooting starts. It starts with bully's picking on smaller younger kids and grows from there. When was the last time you decided to stop an act of one kid bullying another? That is where it al starts, but that is not your problem is it?

So you can take what I say and try and find some extreme situation to denigrate it, but just remeber the sometime when you are all alone on the street at night and some punks are following you calling you pussy etc. It may well be me who is driving by and sees it. I will stop and help you out of that situation, even though I am endangering myself. Can you say the same?

I understand your sentiment completely, and it’s a very noble one. I honor any one who defends the innocent. However, what you suggest sounds a lot like vigilantism. Civilized people cannot be expected to defend against the crazies. Last week while waiting at a bus stop, three bigger men than I came running around the corner; two chasing the other. The lone man fought them back and kept moving as fast as he could. I had no idea how this altercation began. I didn’t know if it was two good guys chasing a bad guy, or two bad guys chasing a good guy. Should I have ran to the lone mans defense? Or should I have called 911?

Does it make me a “stuffy fat headed liberal city dwelling panty waist” for calling the police instead of taking matters into my own hands?

[geoffrey]

On the issue of the registry specifically, I've yet to hear any examples of how having legitimate gun owners register their guns that will never be used in a crime (because none have so far), will protect us from gun smugglers and gangsters.

More money to police, less to New Brunswick.

[tml12]

On the issue of the registry specifically, I've yet to hear any examples of how having legitimate gun owners register their guns that will never be used in a crime (because none have so far), will protect us from gun smugglers and gangsters.

More money to police, less to New Brunswick.

Like when the libs promised to ban handguns...

No ex-PM Martin, the guns that are being used now are legal...

[Hollus]

On the issue of the registry specifically, I've yet to hear any examples of how having legitimate gun owners register their guns that will never be used in a crime (because none have so far), will protect us from gun smugglers and gangsters.

More money to police, less to New Brunswick.

What I have heard is that the registry was undermined by opposition who deliberately sabotaged progress as a political tactic to cause it to go over budget and kill it. I don’t think the registry is the one solution we need, but if we could have implemented it without all the costly resistance it would have been a useful tool.

[geoffrey]

On the issue of the registry specifically, I've yet to hear any examples of how having legitimate gun owners register their guns that will never be used in a crime (because none have so far), will protect us from gun smugglers and gangsters.

More money to police, less to New Brunswick.

What I have heard is that the registry was undermined by opposition who deliberately sabotaged progress as a political tactic to cause it to go over budget and kill it. I don’t think the registry is the one solution we need, but if we could have implemented it without all the costly resistance it would have been a useful tool.

It's not even the over-budget that bothers me. If it was at all useful I'd want to keep it around reformed. But its just a big money sucker from both the government and responsible gun owners that accomplishes absolutely nothing!

We need tougher laws for those that abuse their priveledge to own guns, and not tougher laws against those that are responsible owners.

I don't think gun ownership is a right, I'm not a NRA crazy. I do think that having a gun if your a responsible citizen is absolutely no problem at all, it doesn't impact anyone else one bit.

[Wilber]

On the issue of the registry specifically, I've yet to hear any examples of how having legitimate gun owners register their guns that will never be used in a crime (because none have so far), will protect us from gun smugglers and gangsters.

More money to police, less to New Brunswick.

What I have heard is that the registry was undermined by opposition who deliberately sabotaged progress as a political tactic to cause it to go over budget and kill it. I don’t think the registry is the one solution we need, but if we could have implemented it without all the costly resistance it would have been a useful tool.

Useful for what?

[Hollus]

Ya, Im not against responsible gun ownership, but why does it have to be so much trouble to manage a list of registered gun owners? I can’t see how it could suck that much money up. Do you really think it’s useless? Detectives have solved murders from using pawn shop records; the registry would be another avenue to lead them closer to the perpetrator of a murder weapon.

[IPSC STORM]

Ya, Im not against responsible gun ownership, but why does it have to be so much trouble to manage a list of registered gun owners? I can’t see how it could suck that much money up. Do you really think it’s useless? Detectives have solved murders from using pawn shop records; the registry would be another avenue to lead them closer to the perpetrator of a murder weapon.

Hollus........

Please explain the theory behind the above. How does the registry get you closer to the murderer?

Remember the registry of handguns has been around since 1934 and has NEVER in its entire history been used to solve a crime.

Here is an idea.......

REGISTER CRIMINALS!!

Do you realize that as a gun owner if I do not tell the police I have moved within 30 days.............I GET CHARGED!!

Meanwhile a convicted rapist........is free to move about the country with abandon!!

That is just not right!

[BubberMiley]

I do think that having a gun if your a responsible citizen is absolutely no problem at all, it doesn't impact anyone else one bit.

Tell that to Harry Whittington.

[Hollus]

Ya, Im not against responsible gun ownership, but why does it have to be so much trouble to manage a list of registered gun owners? I can’t see how it could suck that much money up. Do you really think it’s useless? Detectives have solved murders from using pawn shop records; the registry would be another avenue to lead them closer to the perpetrator of a murder weapon.

Hollus........

Please explain the theory behind the above. How does the registry get you closer to the murderer?

Remember the registry of handguns has been around since 1934 and has NEVER in its entire history been used to solve a crime.

Here is an idea.......

REGISTER CRIMINALS!!

Do you realize that as a gun owner if I do not tell the police I have moved within 30 days.............I GET CHARGED!!

Meanwhile a convicted rapist........is free to move about the country with abandon!!

That is just not right!

I must admit I’m not too familiar with the specifics proposed. That does sound unjust. My theory behind the idea stems from American justice show or one of those: The detectives had a body with some bullets in it, and they eventually came across a gun that matched the bullets. Then the detectives searched the country for pawn shops to see if this gun had ever been bought and by whom. The search led them to a man who remembered buying the gun from the pawn shop but had lost it. The detectives worked with the man on remembering where he;d last seen it, and that led them to the man that committed the crime. Why couldn’t a registered list of gun owners serve the same purpose?

[Drea]

This side doesn't respect THAT side's opinion.

That side doesn't repect THIS side's opinion.

This argument could go on and on and on and on, never to be resolved.

Fixer1, you seem to have a hate on for city folk. Too bad. Most city folk have some country roots! Me included.

IPSC STORM, your just angry.

Why don't I "like" handguns? They serve only one purpose -- the harming of a human being.

Comparing computers and guns is simply ridiculous. My computer can't "go off" accidentally and maim me... if I walk into a bank with a laptop, it's not very threatening LOL.

Yes, the internet was invented by the military. So was the helicopter, but it has more uses than one. Guns have ONE purpose -- to propel a lead or steal pellet at incredible speeds into something. "Something" could be a living thing, a piece of paper, or a clay plate.

Handguns should be banned. Period. Anyone caught with a handgun should receive an automatic 2 year sentence. Period.

Would this get the guns out of the hands of criminals? IMO it would. The more difficult firearms are to get, the less likely the gangbanger is going to have one. Simple logic. If there is only 6 of one thing (instead of 60,000) less people would have it.

Rifles for hunting? Different story altogether.

Like I said before it would be pretty darn difficult to hide a long barrel whilst strolling in the mall.

I agree that the gun registry was a stupid idea and it should be scrapped -- we in Canada have always had to register our rifles.

THis is my last post on this subject.

Cheers!

I sure am glad this was your last post on the subject because it is JUST TOO STUPID!!

Handguns or any firearm DO NOTJUST GO OFF!!

Computers are used to ROB MORE MONEY than any firarm ever has.......

Oh and the registration of rifles STARTED IN 1998!! If you do not know EVEN THAT little tidbit of information on the subject at hand...........then you lack the very basic knowlege to talk about this subject.

As such any debate with you is USLESS as you do not have a CLUE!!

You say Guns have ONE purpose..............then go on to list THREE possibilities!! LOL!! Yep your logic is sure on the ball!!

LOL!!

Damn but you ANTI gun nuts are a JOKE!!

Nah,

I think I'll stay on this thread for a while longer.

Looks like this one's blood pressure is so high he might just explode -- and I wouldn't miss that for the world.

Mellow out dude. Sheesh. You for one absolutely should not have access to a firearm. You have anger management issues, man.

*Drea walks away shaking her head at how some people can get soooo angry over this issue*

[IPSC STORM]

[

Mellow out dude. Sheesh. You for one absolutely should not have access to a firearm. You have anger management issues, man.

Na I will leave it to left wing nuts like you to MELLOW out.............

Once again you do not have a logical argument so you resort to personal attacks. That tactic speaks volumes for your position or rather lack of position.

I note that you did not address the FACT that your entire post was so much BS!

Yes indeed you sure add to the facts of this debate.

Lies

Lies

Lies and insults.

Face it your argument does not hold water at all...............but anyone with a brain would know that.

Hollas............ Taking Television as a source of data is not a very good idea. Not even PBS etc.

What you really want is a Registry of CRIMINALS. Guy walks into a gun shop. Says......Hey I would like that .357 revolver. Ok says the clerk. Let me check the data base of criminals.

Type type......................

PING..

Good you are not on the list of people who are prohibitted from owning firearms. That will be $800 please

End of story.

Meanwhile with the data base of criminals you can track where they live.

Have a rape in the area?

Click click......click and you have a list of possible suspects.

Now THAT would help solve crimes that are a risk to people.

But then the resident anti gun nuts would cry FOUL and say that the Criminals have "rights". Of course they do not allow gun owners to have rights. makes you wonder doesnt it.

Take the FACT that police do not need a warrant to enter the home of a gun owner but they do need one for a drug dealer. How backwards can you get!

[geoffrey]

Nah,

I think I'll stay on this thread for a while longer.

Looks like this one's blood pressure is so high he might just explode -- and I wouldn't miss that for the world.

Mellow out dude. Sheesh. You for one absolutely should not have access to a firearm. You have anger management issues, man.

*Drea walks away shaking her head at how some people can get soooo angry over this issue*

Let me explain Drea in a non-crazy manner.

This country won't register criminals because of their rights. It took alot of teeth pulling to get the pedophile/sex offender registry.

Yet it was no big deal to register all gun owners. It's like we are classed below pedophiles and violent criminals. It's not justified.

The only wrong many of us have done in the government's eyes is own a gun, and thats simply unjustified.

[Spike22]

Nah,

I think I'll stay on this thread for a while longer.

Looks like this one's blood pressure is so high he might just explode -- and I wouldn't miss that for the world.

Mellow out dude. Sheesh. You for one absolutely should not have access to a firearm. You have anger management issues, man.

*Drea walks away shaking her head at how some people can get soooo angry over this issue*

Let me explain Drea in a non-crazy manner.

This country won't register criminals because of their rights. It took alot of teeth pulling to get the pedophile/sex offender registry.

Yet it was no big deal to register all gun owners. It's like we are classed below pedophiles and violent criminals. It's not justified.

The only wrong many of us have done in the government's eyes is own a gun, and thats simply unjustified.

You both are a little unstable - we are all getting a little nervous in this forum. Stop freakin' us out you two...

[IPSC STORM]

[ You both are a little unstable - we are all getting a little nervous in this forum. Stop freakin' us out you two...

Yes indeed more words of wizdom from the anti side.

So much for debate. Just fling some insults......hope they stick then carry on spouting lies.

Sorry but it just does not work that way.

I can imagine that you are a little nervous. YOU SHOULD BE. You have to contend with people that actually KNOW the law and KNOW the firearms issue. You should indeed be running for the hills. Your arguments are now MUD.

Cheers

[sharkman]

Let me explain Drea in a non-crazy manner.

This country won't register criminals because of their rights. It took alot of teeth pulling to get the pedophile/sex offender registry.

Yet it was no big deal to register all gun owners. It's like we are classed below pedophiles and violent criminals. It's not justified.

The only wrong many of us have done in the government's eyes is own a gun, and thats simply unjustified.

Well, that makes it clearer for me, although I've always known the gun registry was a waste of money since the gun owners that shoot people simply don't register their guns.

But not registering criminals because of 'rights' issues, while registering gun owners kind of sounds like if you own a gun you're guilty until proven innocent, not to mention the fact that the criminal gets their rights respected over gun owners. Every now and then you here of a violent sex offender who is being released and all the cops can do is warn the public he's in the area. Can't register him, but watch out if you own a gun. What a country we live in.

[Hollus]

Well, that makes it clearer for me, although I've always known the gun registry was a waste of money since the gun owners that shoot people simply don't register their guns.

But not registering criminals because of 'rights' issues, while registering gun owners kind of sounds like if you own a gun you're guilty until proven innocent, not to mention the fact that the criminal gets their rights respected over gun owners. Every now and then you here of a violent sex offender who is being released and all the cops can do is warn the public he's in the area. Can't register him, but watch out if you own a gun. What a country we live in.

Why? Does it require police to warn public if a gun owner is moving into the nieghborhood?

[D.B.]

But not registering criminals because of 'rights' issues, while registering gun owners kind of sounds like if you own a gun you're guilty until proven innocent...

You've got a point, except they were registering the guns, not the owners. It's like when you buy a car. You bring in the transfer paper and they switch the registration over to you. I don't know what it's like across the country, but in my province if I move I need to tell the government or I'm subject to a fine aswell. If we ask people to be responsible for their cars is it too much to ask them to be responsible for their guns?

Geoffrey you're absolutely right about the criminal rights. It's a pisser because it would be SO sweet to be able to go and just round up the usual suspects... but you just can't do that. It would probably also make me question the fairness of our police system

I think the root issue here is increased regulation of gun ownership. I think it's also safe to say those who own guns are generally not in favour of this.

But the gun registry sounds like a nice idea to the rest of us. It really does. It's not hard to think of possible benifits to having a list of all the guns in the country. There's a murder and you've got the weapon... where to from there...?

Is it so bad to require someone to have a licence to register a gun?

In theory it's great. Problem is we live in the real world and theory doesn't always translate. It's been a cash cow and from what I understand a total pain in the ass to gun owners. To top it off, police forces don't seem to be using it. How's that for your money's worth?

Problem is it's too late for a refund. The billion dollars has been spent... we aint gettin' it back. The question becomes do we continue with the registry, continue to work out it's kinks and treat guns like cars but also increase government bureaucracy or really throw away that billion, cut back on government and de-regulate gun ownership.

For me, in my life it's not a big deal. As I said, I don't own any guns, or intend to for that matter. (You can save your sissy comments here storm, some of your posts can be pretty offensive for someone complaining about insults.) So if it went one way or the other I could really care less, but the logic behind it to me doesn't seem so asinine, if maybe the planning was.

[Wilber]

"In theory it's great. Problem is we live in the real world and theory doesn't always translate. It's been a cash cow and from what I understand a total pain in the ass to gun owners. To top it off, police forces don't seem to be using it. How's that for your money's worth?

Problem is it's too late for a refund. The billion dollars has been spent... we aint gettin' it back. The question becomes do we continue with the registry, continue to work out it's kinks and treat guns like cars but also increase government bureaucracy or really throw away that billion, cut back on government and de-regulate gun ownership."

The police use it. Why wouldn't they? They just have little faith in it in the real world, especially as something that might keep them alive. The money has already been thrown away, the question is how much more do we want to throw at it when there are other things far more pressing when it comes to law enforcement. This argument has everything to do with ideology and little to do with real issues when it comes to dealing with crime.

[sharkman]

But it's not the same as registering the car at all! A potential gun owner has a deep background check and if he fails on something he's not allowed to legally own a gun. Any shmuck can own a car.

Again, it's trampling on the rights of people who own guns to force them to register them when they don't register criminals. Don't kid yourself, the Gun Registry does not sound 'good' to most Canadians.

And criminals have shown a clever way around the gun registry - they DON'T BOTHER REGISTERING THEIR GUNS! And these are the people who will be shooting others, not law abiding citizens.

We can 'work out all the kinks' of the gun registry all we want and we'll never get the criminals to register them, so the registry is ineffective and a waste of money. The Liberals were too proud to admit it was a black hole for money at the 1 billion mark and now we are at 2 billion or so. It's time to pull the plug. We need hard time for gun crimes. That means more prison space and legislation forcing judges to hand down the hard time. There are car thieves and drug grow op owners in the Vancouver area that have literally ten convictions or more who still get a slap on the wrist. Put them behind bars so they can't do the crime, force them to learn a trade while behind those bars and that will prove a deterent to young punks still smart enough to want to aviod prison. The rest will have to learn the hard way.

[IPSC STORM]

Not to mention a fine is a far far cry from 5 years in jail..........

The car/gun analogy just does not hold water at all.

Wilber..........registration just does not work. It cannot work. If you like I can give you the technical reasons. But rest assured. The RFC said it woudl cost BILLIONS of dollars to try it the way they did. I am certain that when the AG accounting comes out we will once again be proven right.

There is simply no way to do it on the cheap. There is no way that the data in it can be used for anything but confiscation and then only from those who obey the laws.

The police in fact do NOT use the system for the purpose it was intended. The much flaunted 5000 uses per day is an outright distortion. The real question is HOW MANY TIMES IS IT USED TO SOLVE A CRIME>

The 5000 figure came about this way.

You are pulled over for speeding....

They put you in CPIC.

CPIC is tied to CFC. BINGO a "use" of the system. Did it really do anything? Did it tell the cop that there was NO gun in the car? Of course not. Did the officer take off his vest to approach the car because he KNEW that there was no gun? Of course not. So what did we find? Well if it comes back as the driver is a gun owner. We now know that he is a law abiding gun owner. WOW! What great intel that must be!! LOL!

The anwwer that the CFC (Canadian Firearms Centre) gives to that question???

"We do not track this data".

What? You do not track to see if your program actually does what you said it was designed to do? Only in a goverment department can you get away with that sort of reply!

DB...........which of my posts was offensive? All I have done is point out that FACTs that the "anti" crowd have been flaunting and how they are flawed. If you do not have a simple grasp of a submect (Like them) then how on earth can you expect to debate it? That is just plain stupid and I stand by that. If you do not want to own guns........more power to you. I am not here to force anyone to own guns. I just wish that those who are on the other side had the same respect for the individual. Sadly that is plainly not true.

[D.B.]

The car/gun analogy just does not hold water at all.

I like that. That's really good. You call that a debate? Your using this message board as a soapbox for your personal opinions and anyone one that disagrees is dismissed because they 'don't understand the issue' or their arguements are 'illogical.'

If you want to have a REAL debate why don't you drop the games and address some of the issues that have been brought up. Because so far all you've done is come across as one more angry, hot head gun owner that's making me think the gun registry is a better and better idea.

Would you care to EXPLAIN why it doesn't hold any water?