cybercoma Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Shouldn't Canadians be pledging allegiance to the Crown? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) And it can't be taken from my words that I said US citizens pledge allegiance to that country's constitution. "They" and "citizens" in my sentence aren't necessarily the same thing. After all, as smallc rightly points out, all US citizens, whether born as such or naturalised by taking an oath, uphold a promise to give allegiance to the constitution and an inanimate object can do nothing for them in return for that. Of course, this is a game of pure pedantry. Your specialty. No. One. more. time. All US citizens do NOT do that. I've never made a promise or an oath or a pledge to give allegiance to the constitution. Fact is, it's a "game" of who's right and who's wrong. With you being wrong. Your specialty. Edited May 25, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Shouldn't Canadians be pledging allegiance to the Crown? People who move here and become citizens do (or rather, to the personification of the Crown), but when you're born here, it's implied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) All US citizens do NOT do that. I've never made a promise or an oath or a pledge to give allegiance to the constitution. The latter point you make doesn't prove the former to be correct. Fact is, it's a "game" of who's right and who's wrong. Based on semantics, yes. [c/e] Edited May 25, 2011 by g_bambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 People who move here and become citizens do (or rather, to the personification of the Crown), but when you're born here, it's implied. the implication being that we are second class citizens & that there is no odor from her Majesty's feces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 the implication being that we are second class citizens & that there is no odor from her Majesty's feces Only when one is on the same malprescribed drugs as yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 the implication being that we are second class citizens & that there is no odor from her Majesty's feces How exactly does it imply that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Shouldn't Canadians be pledging allegiance to the Crown? Given that I am one of those Canadians who wishes to get rid of the monarchy, I will not pledge allegiance to the crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Given that I am one of those Canadians who wishes to get rid of the monarchy, I will not pledge allegiance to the crown. Doesn't matter. If you're a Canadian, it has your allegiance already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 What bambino said. We live in a constitutional monarchy. That means Queen Elizabeth is your Queen whether you like it or not. Any attempts to attack her or destroy the monarchy are high treason in the Criminal Code of Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) I think we should pledge to the flag more often. I don't have a huge problem with "god save the Queen". Why: As Canadian scholar/author/professor Rand Dyck explains, "since the Queen represents the whole state and its people, oaths to the Queen are really pledges of support for the Canadian political system" and the state/people of Canada, and that "'God save the Queen' really means 'God help us govern ourselves'". He also explains that "to put the Queen's picture on stamps/coins & courtrooms etc. is not to glorify her personally, but to recognize her as a unifying symbol of the state". She is akin to being the physical embodiment of the state and its people. To cheer her is to cheer for Canada, not really the woman herself. I see the Queen/monarch as more of a figurehead or a symbol of Canada. The monarch technically has some political power, but its largely by convention and the monarch/GG acts on the advice of the PM, only not doing so as a much-needed check on the vast power of the PM. I care little either way about the fact that she recently woo'd Obama. What she does personally i don't much care, she still symbolizes Canada, I don't need her to kiss our ass. Edited May 26, 2011 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I think we should pledge to the flag more often. I don't have a huge problem with "god save the Queen". Why: I see the Queen/monarch as more of a figurehead or a symbol of Canada. The monarch technically has some political power, but its largely by convention and the monarch/GG acts on the advice of the PM, only not doing so as a much-needed check on the vast power of the PM. I care little either way about the fact that she recently woo'd Obama. What she does personally i don't much care, she still symbolizes Canada, I don't need her to kiss our ass. Well said, it's refreshing to read a post where someone actually understands the function of the Crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Well said... a post where someone actually understands the function of the Crown. Not entirely. But, I'll let the details slide this time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Not entirely. But, I'll let the details slide this time... Hah perhaps I'm just happy someone isn't harping on how discriminatory the Monarchy is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Hah perhaps I'm just happy someone isn't harping on how discriminatory the Monarchy is So when you don't like what someone is saying, when you don't agree with the issue they raised, it's "harping? So why, pray tell, did you make a point of calling my attention to your post, telling me that you'd really like my opinion? Thanks for letting me know where you're coming from - too bad I already wasted my time with a civil response to your request, but I won't be wasting any more of my time now that I know you have the maturity of a fifth grader. Buh bye! - And do have a great day now that you're happy again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Doesn't matter. If you're a Canadian, it has your allegiance already. Nope. My allegiance is to Canada, not a foreign monarch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Nope. My allegiance is to Canada, not a foreign monarch. I'm confused how is the Queen of Canada a foreign Monarch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Nope. My allegiance is to Canada, not a foreign monarch. Yup. The sovereign is the personification of Canada and, as a citizen of Canada, you are bound to recognise the authority of the Canadian monarch, as vested in her by the constitution, and abide by her laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Nope. My allegiance is to Canada, not a foreign monarch. That's true. You owe zero allegiance to a foreign monarch. As everyone has been agreeing all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 That's true. You owe zero allegiance to a foreign monarch. As everyone has been agreeing all along. Elizabeth is British, not Canadian, therefore, she is a foreign monarch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Elizabeth is... not Canadian, therefore, she is a foreign monarch. Incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Elizabeth is British, not Canadian, therefore, she is a foreign monarch. It's not even that I don't get your point. I do. But we are not beholden to the Queen of England. That's a different role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Incorrect. Is she a Canadian? NO. She is British, therefore a foreigner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Nope. My allegiance is to Canada, not a foreign monarch. The monarch isn't foreign. The Queen is OUR Queen, her title is the Queen of Canada, but she is Queen of many states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Incorrect. Is Queen Elizabeth a Canadian citizen? I would think she is but am not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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