A wasted win?

[Hicksey]

I really hope it doesn't. If it does that wins the Liberals the next election.

Not giddy about writing PM Harper, but I am not a schoolgirl either

Abortion won't go to Parliament but SSM will...

Look, when it is over it is over. We'll live with the result and know that Prime Minister Harper (am I the only one who gets giddy when they write that now? ) will live with the decision.

That was LOW Shoop... :angry:

Now that I've read the other part of your post though, Harper did promise the more socially right-wing part of his party that he would bring it up as a free vote and he has to. It will be very close...as another post started recounts, we would need to know how many anti-SSM Liberals won.

I disagree. That part of his base are the broken-glass conservatives. They'll excuse that as one of the political realities of a minority. The centrists are the ones he can't anger.

[tml12]

I agree SSM should be put to a close. But how can he simply ignore what he promised during the campaign? I mean he has been promising this for close to a year now. I just can't see him not doing it.

[Hicksey]

I agree SSM should be put to a close. But how can he simply ignore what he promised during the campaign? I mean he has been promising this for close to a year now. I just can't see him not doing it.

Me either. But that doesn't make it any less a mistake in judgement.

Most people had long ago written these issues off as lost. He should have let sleeping dogs lie.

[sage]

Leaving SSM alone is not a good idea because it feeds the ability of the liberals to raise the hidden agenda nonsense.

If Harper does not raise the issue I guarantee the Lib's end the next campaign with an attack saying the only reason SSM legislation was not amended was because Harper had a minority, with the implicaiton being that if he had a majority SSM would be removed from the definition marriage.

Best case scenario SSM is introduced early on in the new parliament and resoundly defeated in a free vote.

The worst thing that could happen is it actually passed, then all hell would break loose with Supreme Court references on amended legislation,etc.

[shoop]

The centrists are the key.

The SSM issue will be a key to seeing how Harper will govern. Fashioning a reasonable compromise is a true test on his ability to govern.

I disagree. That part of his base are the broken-glass conservatives. They'll excuse that as one of the political realities of a minority. The centrists are the ones he can't anger.

[Hicksey]

Leaving SSM alone is not a good idea because it feeds the ability of the liberals to raise the hidden agenda nonsense.

If Harper does not raise the issue I guarantee the Lib's end the next campaign with an attack saying the only reason SSM legislation was not amended was because Harper had a minority, with the implicaiton being that if he had a majority SSM would be removed from the definition marriage.

Best case scenario SSM is introduced early on in the new parliament and resoundly defeated in a free vote.

The worst thing that could happen is it actually passed, then all hell would break loose with Supreme Court references on amended legislation,etc.

You're saying best to brave the issue now while the opposition isn't likely to bring the government doen so it can be defeated and take the issue away from the 'hidden agenda' argument.

Having given it a second thought, if in fact it turns out that way, that may be the best idea yet. And Harper wouldn't be nearly as scary as once thought. If it works with SSM they should send Abortion down that river too.

[sage]

Exactly Hicksey. I think there is a difference though with abortion.

Harper has to address SSM because he made it an issue, the CPC did not make abortion an issue whatsoever. I know what you're getting at though in trying to get out in front of all this hidden agenda nonsense.

You know what I was just thinking. The last election the hidden agenda of Harper was health care. I don't think I've heard this once in the last 2 weeks. Funny how Lib's pick and choose these things and the East laps it up.

[Black Dog]

The real tradegy is that with the minority government, he'll have to keep the 'crazies' quiet. I personally enjoy hearing from people like Anders, Thompson and Hanger (who were all at HQ last night, Anders is halarious, he was dancing around in the foyer area, looked halarious). They'll have not only the backbench, but the back corner of the backbench if we hope to break into Toronto and Vancouver.

I don't really see that as a tragedy. Bigotry and ignorance have never struck me as funny.

Leaving SSM alone is not a good idea because it feeds the ability of the liberals to raise the hidden agenda nonsense.

'cause everyone knows the best way to show you're not against equal marriage is to re-open the issue and hold a free vote (despit already having held a free vote the last time). Makes sense.

I for one, would looove Stephen Harper to re-open the equal marriage issue. Unleash Cheryl Gallant, Vic Toews and the rest of the Redneck Caucus. Then go after abortion. After all, what better way to show you have no hidden agenda than to stop hiding it? The Liberals will thank you for it.

[STEFROCKS]

I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him, I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket... Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.. unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can

Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts...

The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are...

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say.

A PROUD LIBERAL

[STEFROCKS]

I forgot to include this link, maybe you all should check it out to prove my point...

http://www.intheirownwords.ca/harper.html

[Hicksey]

I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him, I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket... Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.. unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can

Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts...

The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are...

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say.

A PROUD LIBERAL

You've said your piece.

I would still vote for the NDP over the Liberals. At least they have more to offer than hate, vitriole and lies that Liberals the likes of you buy hook, line and sinker. The Liberals used to be a decent party but in their current incarnation they're only slightly more useful than used toilet paper.

[STEFROCKS]

I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him, I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket... Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.. unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can

Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts...

The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are...

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say.

A PROUD LIBERAL

You've said your piece.

I would still vote for the NDP over the Liberals. At least they have more to offer than hate, vitriole and lies that Liberals the likes of you buy hook, line and sinker. The Liberals used to be a decent party but in their current incarnation they're only slightly more useful than used toilet paper.

So are you saying that all Liberals are liars and all liberal's promote hate, and all liberals are thieves cause if you are that is pretty hypocritical of you... we will see how much lying your precious Stephen Harper does, and his people, probably about as much as Mulroney did and he did alot of it, and see how much hate they dish out to other people... yeah I said my piece, but I see you did not comment on anything I said, maybe you know that I am right, and guess what hicksey, the conservatives did not win, it is just the liberals lost, if our country really wanted a big change you would of gotten the majority regardless. And answer me this question, why do you feel that when there is need for a change that it has to be a new government, why can't the old governement fix what is wrong and change from within, answer me that.

[Wilber]

I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him, I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket... Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.. unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can

Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts...

The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are...

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say.

A PROUD LIBERAL

You've said your piece.

I would still vote for the NDP over the Liberals. At least they have more to offer than hate, vitriole and lies that Liberals the likes of you buy hook, line and sinker. The Liberals used to be a decent party but in their current incarnation they're only slightly more useful than used toilet paper.

So are you saying that all Liberals are liars and all liberal's promote hate, and all liberals are thieves cause if you are that is pretty hypocritical of you... we will see how much lying your precious Stephen Harper does, and his people, probably about as much as Mulroney did and he did alot of it, and see how much hate they dish out to other people... yeah I said my piece, but I see you did not comment on anything I said, maybe you know that I am right, and guess what hicksey, the conservatives did not win, it is just the liberals lost, if our country really wanted a big change you would of gotten the majority regardless. And answer me this question, why do you feel that when there is need for a change that it has to be a new government, why can't the old governement fix what is wrong and change from within, answer me that.

It had 13 years to change. It didn't. It got worse.

[normanchateau]

The fundamental error in your reasoning Norman is that you surmise the Liberals and NDP will never vote for a measure the Tories are proposing, and thus they have to rely on the Bloc. I don't think the Lib's and NDP will be as obstructive as you suggest.

No Sage, I don't surmise that the Liberals and NDP will never vote for a measure proposed by the Conservatives. For example, I'm confident the Accountability bill will pass. Why would anyone oppose it?

What I'm saying is that when the Cons propose something which the Liberals and NDP oppose, the Cons will need to make deals with the Separatist BQ to get it passed. Essentially the Cons are powerless or dependent on the BQ except when making changes which the Liberals and NDP support anyway, or which the Liberals and NDP don't care about.

[STEFROCKS]

I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him, I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket... Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.. unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can

Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts...

The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are...

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say.

A PROUD LIBERAL

You've said your piece.

I would still vote for the NDP over the Liberals. At least they have more to offer than hate, vitriole and lies that Liberals the likes of you buy hook, line and sinker. The Liberals used to be a decent party but in their current incarnation they're only slightly more useful than used toilet paper.

So are you saying that all Liberals are liars and all liberal's promote hate, and all liberals are thieves cause if you are that is pretty hypocritical of you... we will see how much lying your precious Stephen Harper does, and his people, probably about as much as Mulroney did and he did alot of it, and see how much hate they dish out to other people... yeah I said my piece, but I see you did not comment on anything I said, maybe you know that I am right, and guess what hicksey, the conservatives did not win, it is just the liberals lost, if our country really wanted a big change you would of gotten the majority regardless. And answer me this question, why do you feel that when there is need for a change that it has to be a new government, why can't the old governement fix what is wrong and change from within, answer me that.

It had 13 years to change. It didn't. It got worse.

Your an idiot, tell how canada got worse, list me points in how we got worse, by paying down the debt, lowering the unemployment, by the provinces actually becoming more, by a stronger dollar, more investment in canada, balanced budgets, stronger trade with other countries besides the united states... come on smart guy tell me how it got worse over the last 13 years, list your points... or are you just a disgruntled conservative from the mulroney days when the liberals wiped your party out in 1993, and your are still bitter by it, and not matter what the liberal party does, you will still hate them and think they are all liars and thieves... oh yeah and they promote hate, I believe you said that as well, tell me then, what hate did the liberal party promote. give me your answers smart guy.

[Wilber]

I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him, I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket... Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.. unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can

Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts...

The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are...

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say.

A PROUD LIBERAL

You've said your piece.

I would still vote for the NDP over the Liberals. At least they have more to offer than hate, vitriole and lies that Liberals the likes of you buy hook, line and sinker. The Liberals used to be a decent party but in their current incarnation they're only slightly more useful than used toilet paper.

So are you saying that all Liberals are liars and all liberal's promote hate, and all liberals are thieves cause if you are that is pretty hypocritical of you... we will see how much lying your precious Stephen Harper does, and his people, probably about as much as Mulroney did and he did alot of it, and see how much hate they dish out to other people... yeah I said my piece, but I see you did not comment on anything I said, maybe you know that I am right, and guess what hicksey, the conservatives did not win, it is just the liberals lost, if our country really wanted a big change you would of gotten the majority regardless. And answer me this question, why do you feel that when there is need for a change that it has to be a new government, why can't the old governement fix what is wrong and change from within, answer me that.

It had 13 years to change. It didn't. It got worse.

Your an idiot, tell how canada got worse, list me points in how we got worse, by paying down the debt, lowering the unemployment, by the provinces actually becoming more, by a stronger dollar, more investment in canada, balanced budgets, stronger trade with other countries besides the united states... come on smart guy tell me how it got worse over the last 13 years, list your points... or are you just a disgruntled conservative from the mulroney days when the liberals wiped your party out in 1993, and your are still bitter by it, and not matter what the liberal party does, you will still hate them and think they are all liars and thieves... oh yeah and they promote hate, I believe you said that as well, tell me then, what hate did the liberal party promote. give me your answers smart guy.

It's you're an idiot. Calm down before you do yourself some damage.

[normanchateau]

It's you're an idiot.

Why not actually address the issues rather than exchange insults?

[Wilber]

It's you're an idiot.

Why not actually address the issues rather than exchange insults?

I was addressing spelling. If he is going to insult me the least he can do is spell it properly.

[na85]

Your an idiot, tell how canada got worse, list me points in how we got worse, by paying down the debt, lowering the unemployment, by the provinces actually becoming more, by a stronger dollar, more investment in canada, balanced budgets, stronger trade with other countries besides the united states... come on smart guy tell me how it got worse over the last 13 years, list your points... or are you just a disgruntled conservative from the mulroney days when the liberals wiped your party out in 1993, and your are still bitter by it, and not matter what the liberal party does, you will still hate them and think they are all liars and thieves... oh yeah and they promote hate, I believe you said that as well, tell me then, what hate did the liberal party promote. give me your answers smart guy.

First of all, stop trolling. This is a place for intelligent debate, not flame wars. If you're here looking for an argument gtfo.

Second of all, he's not saying Canada as a country got worse, he's saying that the government has gotten worse. I don't think anyone can argue that paying down the deficit is bad. The problem is all the American-bashing, all the corruption, all the bad calls.

And before you start flaming me, no, I'm not a conservative from the Mulroney era, I'm a staunch Liberal and I voted that way this past monday. I still think Harper has a hidden agenda and I just don't like or respect him as a leader. Unfortunately, he's probably what we need right now, because without any competition the Liberals got sloppy and corrupt. A term out of office will let them regroup.

[normanchateau]

It's you're an idiot.

Why not actually address the issues rather than exchange insults?

I was addressing spelling. If he is going to insult me the least he can do is spell it properly.

Well said. You're right.

[Argus]

I would like to put in my 2 cents

A vast overestimation of the value of your ignorant drivel.

because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his,

Apparently, though, you couldn't see through Martin's phoney patriotism, phoney emotion, and patent lies about everything he talked about.

, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket...

Like me, you mean?

Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot,

None anywhere near as big as the Liberal kickbacks.

his government screwed us on NAFTA

NAFTA was a very good idea. I was against it at first, but began to realize that it was the only protection we were going to get from a protectionist minded US Congress, especially after the White House was alienated by anti-American morons in the Liberal party - including Paul Martin - spewing incendiary garbage towards our immensely important trading partners.

brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed..

Nothing. Mulroney at least had the excuse of having governed during one of the deepest world-wide recessions in recent memory. Martin had massive surpluses due to the expanding economy (for which he personally can take no credit), and he still kept the GST and still kept EI premiums sky high and payouts scandalously low, adding our premiums into general government revenue.

unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased,

All of which can be credited to the United States and their booming economy. It was that which drew us out of recession, and kept us out of recession. It is still exports to the US which drive our economy. Martin has nothing to do with any of this.

if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected...

I didn't vote against Martin because of the sponsorship scandal. I voted against him because he was a lying, two-faced, hypocrtical weasel, because of his phoney, self-righteousness over issues he himself didn't even believe in, and his complete lack of anything approaching principles.

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's,

It is not clear Bebimbo has any beliefs other than the need of good hair and shiny shoes. Then again, that does make her a lot like Martin, who similarly has no beliefs to speak of. Both value only power.

I think not,

The only accurate part of your rant.

[Hicksey]

I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics, I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him, I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket... Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.. unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery, most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can

Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts...

The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are...

And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say.

A PROUD LIBERAL

You've said your piece.

I would still vote for the NDP over the Liberals. At least they have more to offer than hate, vitriole and lies that Liberals the likes of you buy hook, line and sinker. The Liberals used to be a decent party but in their current incarnation they're only slightly more useful than used toilet paper.

So are you saying that all Liberals are liars and all liberal's promote hate, and all liberals are thieves cause if you are that is pretty hypocritical of you... we will see how much lying your precious Stephen Harper does, and his people, probably about as much as Mulroney did and he did alot of it, and see how much hate they dish out to other people... yeah I said my piece, but I see you did not comment on anything I said, maybe you know that I am right, and guess what hicksey, the conservatives did not win, it is just the liberals lost, if our country really wanted a big change you would of gotten the majority regardless. And answer me this question, why do you feel that when there is need for a change that it has to be a new government, why can't the old governement fix what is wrong and change from within, answer me that.

No, I said the Liberal party is the one espousing the lies, hate and vitriole. And while we're at it I'll amend it to include stealing. Ordinary small 'l' liberals generally are much more civilized in my experience.

IMO it is never wise to trust the people that broke it to fix it. We needed a new government for no other reason than to bring accountability and go as far as we can to purging Ottawa of the profiteering and scandal. If Harper can achieve no more than that and his crime bill under the current lineup of the house I'll be satisfied but not impressed.

[scribblet]

No, I said the Liberal party is the one espousing the lies, hate and vitriole. And while we're at it I'll amend it to include stealing. Ordinary small 'l' liberals generally are much more civilized in my experience.

IMO it is never wise to trust the people that broke it to fix it. We needed a new government for no other reason than to bring accountability and go as far as we can to purging Ottawa of the profiteering and scandal. If Harper can achieve no more than that and his crime bill under the current lineup of the house I'll be satisfied but not impressed.

Right - Although I would hope he can achieve more than that, his accountability and ethics act should pass as the NDP are on board with that one.

[tml12]

"I would like to put in my 2 cents, because that is all I have to offer or will probably get from this new government, I personally think you are all idiots to believe that Stephen Harper is the messiah who is going to change federal politics."

Right away you have let everyone know that you want to debate issues in a respectful manner without regard to partisanship and that you are willing to respect everyone's opinions.

"I can see through that fake smile of his, how can he go from being an angry right wing leader to this smilie leader overnight as he has done, I think it is bullshit, and most of you are taken in by him."

Almost halfway through your anti-Conservative rhetoric and so far your odious jargon has produced other than vicious attacks without basis.

"I do not agree with their policies other than one, and that is the accountability act, and that is it, reducing the gst will do nothing other than add more money into the rich's pocket..."

I am not a huge fan of reducing the GST but your Liberal Party would have reduced the income tax...something that most certainly would have put more money into the rich's pocket.

"Mulroney left in a scandal if you all forgot, his government screwed us on NAFTA brought in the GST and did everything else to Canada including erasing the EI benefits where you could not collect if you quit or got fired, but the liberal government fixed.."

That the Liberals need to defend their own party by bringing up Brian Mulrooney is hillarious. "No," Liberals say, "We are not a clean party...compare us to Brian Mulrooney...compare us to Brian Mulrooney PLEASE!!!" BTW: At least Mulrooney's MPs had the audacity to step down rather than make us pay their legal fees like your man Chretien.

"unemployment was down to the lowest it has been in 30 years, the dollar went up, our economy has increased, if you cannot see what they have done for our country then you are all blind, and all you like all the others out here in alberta can focus on is the scandal of which PAUL MARTIN and HIS government was exhonerated by Gomery."

That is all good and great, at the expense of universal health care and social programs which you apparently care little about. And yes, Martin was exonerated personally because Chretien should have had to accept the ultimate responsibility. That does not mean that there are not corrupt elements still within the Liberal Party that out new government led by Prime Minister Harper will not find.

"most of the people involved in that were kicked out or not re-elected... but you do not even see that... did we suffer so bad under the liberal government as idiot Harper and Layton lead us to believe and what the rag newspapers in the SUN were reporting, I believe not, I believe the liberal party sat on it's laurels for too long and did not bring fresh ideas on what they should do and I think now they can."

At this point, the liquor bottle must be half empty because you really aren't making much sense anymore. You seem to believe that most of the people were kicked out or not re-elected. Do you have proof of this? If so, do tell. And you also must support the fact that the Liberals lost a lot of ridings in order to ensure their corrupt MPs were not re-elected. You also must fault Martin for allowing corrupt MPs to run again.

"Stephen Harper is not the next political messiah and I personally do not trust him nor his party at all, considering they are former reform members from alberta, and maybe all of you should check out a sight that has quotes from Stephen Harper himself, then maybe you will get your heads out of your butts..."

Your Liberal Party has presented us with all those links. Of course then, Harper's job was at a LOBBYING group. I suppose you also support missile defence and the war in Iraq. After all, Martin fully supported both of those things while a Liberal leadership candidate.

"The conservatives are not something new, what they offer is not that great, heck even their chief economist pulled his recommendation for their platform because it was not the one that they showed him the first time, what does that tell you... oh but Stephen Harper is the new political messiah, lets see how he handles his people and what trouble they will get into then maybe everyone will believe that they are not the perfect politicians they want everyone to believe that they are..."

Here you are repeating your blasphemous and fallacious accusations. I will not respond again.

"And to the one that called Belinda Stronach a hypocrite, is it hypocritial to believe in something your party does not and go to a party or person that represents your belief's, I think not, your the one being hypocritcal on this, Belinda stuck to her beliefs and I admire that, what are your belief's anyways... this is all I have to say."

Hell, I'd stick to my beliefs too for a plum cabinet post. I wonder why she left then? You know, the Conservative leadership convention was two months earlier. I wonder why she suddenly felt the need to go then...and especially after leaving McKay's bed. She is unscrupulous... :angry:

"A PROUD LIBERAL"

A PROUD CONSERVATIVE

[normanchateau]

You also must fault Martin for allowing corrupt MPs to run again.

What corrupt MPs ran again?