Did America Have a Christian Founding?

[Deluge]

Since leftism has gotten so pervasive in the last 7 or 8 years, the need to discuss this topic is once again, necessary. 

This article explains it pretty well: 

"The role of religion in the American republic has been a source of controversy since the nation’s inception. Debates are particularly fierce when they concern religious liberty and the proper relationship between church and state. Arguments on these questions are often framed in the light of the Founders’ intentions, but unfortunately, their views are often distorted.

Did America have a Christian Founding? Two popular answers to this query—“Of course not!” and “Absolutely!”—both distort the Founders’ views. There is in fact a great deal of evidence that America’s Founders were influenced by Christian ideas, and there are many ways in which the Founders’ views might inform contemporary political and legal controversies."

https://www.heritage.org/political-process/report/did-america-have-christian-founding

[Dougie93]

certainly the foundations of the War of Independence derive from the Lowland Scots Protestant Enlightenment

although Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe were Deists

in that they believed that God was the creator of the Universe

but that God does not otherwise intervene therein

thus human reason is the mechanism of salvation

that being said, there was another revolution which swept across America in 1820

the Second Great Awakening Evangelical Protestant revival

 this was the birth of the Glorious Union to come : the Abolitionists

to free all the slaves everywhere, or die trying

 

[Deluge]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

certainly the foundations of the War of Independence derive from the Lowland Scots Protestant Enlightenment

although Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe were Deists

in that they believed that God was the creator of the Universe

but that God does not otherwise intervene therein

thus human reason is the mechanism of salvation

that being said, there was another revolution which swept across America in 1820

the Second Great Awakening Evangelical Protestant revival

 this was the birth of the Glorious Union to come : the Abolitionists

to free all the slaves everywhere, or die trying

 

The Founding Fathers were mostly too honest to be deists.

Washington was Anglican; Jefferson was a theist; Franklin dabbled in that deism bullshit, but some believe he moved toward Christ in his later years. It's unclear where Madison stood, but he was raised Episcopalian; and Monroe was raised in the Anglican Church - it's reasonable to believe that he also was at least a theist, and the same with Madison. 

 

[robosmith]

NOWHERE in the nation's founding documents is there ANY mention of "Christian."

The ONLY mention of religion is the prohibition of the Federal government to "make any laws respecting" it.

If it wasn't written, it was NOT agreed to. Duh

 

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Deluge said:

The Founding Fathers were mostly too honest to be deists.

Washington was Anglican; Jefferson was a theist; Franklin dabbled in that deism bullshit, but some believe he moved toward Christ in his later years. It's unclear where Madison stood, but he was raised Episcopalian; and Monroe was raised in the Anglican Church - it's reasonable to believe that he also was at least a theist, and the same with Madison.

fair enough

interesting post

although I view Anglicans to be Papists in sheep's clothing

Episcopalians also embrace assorted Pharisees & Scribes

as I eluded to, I am an Abolitionist

so I believe Presbyterian John Brown is the founder of America as we know it

Glorious Union

New Jerusalem

in the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea

praise the Lord

 

[impartialobserver]

Were the Founders religious? undoubtedly. Was the Christian faith (regardless of denomination)  a key underpinning to their ways, policies, and culture? Again.. yes. Not really sure what there is to debate. 

[Deluge]

56 minutes ago, robosmith said:

NOWHERE in the nation's founding documents is there ANY mention of "Christian."

The ONLY mention of religion is the prohibition of the Federal government to "make any laws respecting" it.

If it wasn't written, it was NOT agreed to. Duh

 

robogodless wants America to be a dystopian wasteland, just like Tenderloin, San Francisco.

[Deluge]

6 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Were the Founders religious? undoubtedly. Was the Christian faith (regardless of denomination)  a key underpinning to their ways, policies, and culture? Again.. yes. Not really sure what there is to debate. 

The left will debate it to the end of time.

But it's good that you are able to acknowledge that, observer. 

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, Deluge said:

robogodless wants America to be a dystopian wasteland, just like Tenderloin, San Francisco.

It's REALLY STUPID to equate "not Christian nation" with "dystopian wasteland."

You've lost what little credibility you had.

8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Were the Founders religious? undoubtedly. Was the Christian faith (regardless of denomination)  a key underpinning to their ways, policies, and culture? Again.. yes. Not really sure what there is to debate. 

The debate is whether it was in any way OFFICIAL. It wasn't, cause it's NOT SPECIFIED.

[Deluge]

Just now, robosmith said:

It's REALLY STUPID to equate "not Christian nation" with "dystopian wasteland."

You've lost what little credibility you had.

No it isn't. "Not Christian" and "Dystopian" are one in the same. 

[impartialobserver]

Just now, Deluge said:

The left will debate it to the end of time.

But it's good that you are able to acknowledge that, observer. 

There may not have been explicit language.. such as "christian nation" or whatever. However, that is not necessary. History shows that folks were more religious in the past. 

[Deluge]

2 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

There may not have been explicit language.. such as "christian nation" or whatever. However, that is not necessary. History shows that folks were more religious in the past. 

That's a good point. Religion goes down with each passing decade. 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

That's a good point. Religion goes down with each passing decade. 

Where we differ is that I do not view morality and religiosity as one in the same. Being less religious does not automatically mean less moral. However, back to the point.. folks were more religious. The best evidence that I have found of this is that when a new town was created.. the church predated any government buildings of any sort. 

[Deluge]

3 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Where we differ is that I do not view morality and religiosity as one in the same. Being less religious does not automatically mean less moral. However, back to the point.. folks were more religious. The best evidence that I have found of this is that when a new town was created.. the church predated any government buildings of any sort. 

I can agree with that, but it doesn't mean you banish Christianity to the corner to make secularism the driving force behind this country. 

[robosmith]

10 minutes ago, Deluge said:

No it isn't. "Not Christian" and "Dystopian" are one in the same. 

You're ridiculous. Show ONE definition of dystopian which includes the word "Christian" LMAO

Quote

dystopian

adjective

dys·to·pi·an (ˌ)dis-ˈtō-pē-ən 

 

variants or less commonly dystopic 

(ˌ)dis-ˈtō-pik -ˈtä- 

Synonyms of dystopian

: of, relating to, or being an imagined world or society in which people lead dehumanized, fearful lives : relating to or characteristic of a dystopia

A twisted romantic haunted by dystopian visions, Gibson borrows the language of science fiction and crafts doomed love stories with high-tech trappings.—Maitland McDonagh

 

Dystopian visions are in a sense mythopoeic: depicting a creation myth in a future world of darkness and silence.—Sarah Lefanu

 

Biotechnology is a force for good, but without adherence to the ideal of universal human equality, it opens the door to the soft tyranny of Gattaca and, ultimately the dystopian nightmare of Brave New World.—Wesley J. Smith

 

Like many advances in science and technology, the dystopian implications of data mining have been described best by science-fiction writers.—John Markoff

 

… Orwellian has become a word itself: an adjective denoting a dystopic world where language is cut adrift from meaning.—Harvey A. Daniels

 

Letter by letter, we read of a society that seems to move from one dystopic nightmare to another …—Simon Winchester

 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

I can agree with that, but it doesn't mean you banish Christianity to the corner to make secularism the driving force behind this country. 

I do believe that government should be secular. If the folks in government are Christian.. so be it. Therefore, if their Christian values filter into the laws that they propose/write/pass, again so be it. The converse is true. It is a simple matter of freedom of religion (to believe or not). 

[Deluge]

Just now, robosmith said:

You're ridiculous. Show ONE definition of dystopian which includes the word "Christian" LMAO

 

Wrong question, burnout. 

The right question is, show something non-Christian that isn't dystopian in nature. 

 

[Deluge]

3 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I do believe that government should be secular. If the folks in government are Christian.. so be it. Therefore, if their Christian values filter into the laws that they propose/write/pass, again so be it. The converse is true. It is a simple matter of freedom of religion (to believe or not). 

I'm not going to fight that there, even though I've been tempted to. 

In the end, if the US decides to keep going left until there is no right, then so be it; that what the people chose. But that doesn't mean that the right throws in the towel. We continue to keep trying to convince Americans that they can do better than what the left has in store for them, which is 100% government control, like the old USSR. 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

I'm not going to fight that there, even though I've been tempted to. 

In the end, if the US decides to keep going left until there is no right, then so be it; that what the people chose. But that doesn't mean that the right throws in the towel. We continue to keep trying to convince Americans that they can do better than what the left has in store for them, which is 100% government control, like the old USSR. 

I believe in the freedom to be whatever you want to be. I am not religious and so like the fact that I can live a fulfilling life without anyone/anything religious in my life. However, If I was religious, I would like to think that I could live a fulfilling life with it being central to my life. Out least out west.. if you want to live in a more conservative place where religious values are codified in the laws.. you generally just have to live in a rural and most likely isolated place. Some will say, "I should not have to do that". Well... I guess it is a matter of how bad you want this. 

[Yakuda]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

NOWHERE in the nation's founding documents is there ANY mention of "Christian."

The ONLY mention of religion is the prohibition of the Federal government to "make any laws respecting" it.

If it wasn't written, it was NOT agreed to. Duh

 

Like abortion bozo?

[Deluge]

1 minute ago, Yakuda said:

Like abortion bozo?

That exceeds robolimit's programming. 

[Yakuda]

17 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I believe in the freedom to be whatever you want to be. I am not religious and so like the fact that I can live a fulfilling life without anyone/anything religious in my life. However, If I was religious, I would like to think that I could live a fulfilling life with it being central to my life. Out least out west.. if you want to live in a more conservative place where religious values are codified in the laws.. you generally just have to live in a rural and most likely isolated place. Some will say, "I should not have to do that". Well... I guess it is a matter of how bad you want this. 

The whole basis for your freedom to "...live a fulfilling life without anyone/anything religious in my life.", which you claim to live is rooted in the christian idea that our rights comes from God not men. That govts exists legitimately only if they defend our rights. They dont bestow them on us. 

4 minutes ago, Deluge said:

That exceeds robolimit's programming. 

Lol 

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

Wrong question, burnout. 

^Deflection because you cannot tie dystopian to non-Christian.

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

The right question is, show something non-Christian that isn't dystopian in nature. 

Almost every nation that is non-Christian, including the USA, is NOT DYSTOPIAN.

[Deluge]

9 minutes ago, robosmith said:

^Deflection because you cannot tie dystopian to non-Christian.

Almost every nation that is non-Christian, including the USA, is NOT DYSTOPIAN.

There's no such thing as me deflecting anything you bring up.

Let's take a look at dystopian nightmares right here in good ol' USA! 

We'll start with Detroit! 

 

Edited March 1, 2024 by Deluge

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

There's no such thing as me deflecting anything you bring up.

Let's take a look at dystopian nightmares right here in good ol' USA! 

We'll start with Detroit! 

 

You're DELUGINAL. Tearing down old unused buildings is capitalism in ACTION to re-use the land. Duh