Multipolar World of Peace

[August1991]

Between 1618 and 1648, Europeans suffered a Thirty Years war.

After the 1789 revolution, ordinary Europeans suffered again another 30 years of war.

Between 1815 and 1914, Europe largely enjoyed peace.

From 1914 to 1945, Europe endured yet another Thirty Years War.

====

Since the 1990s the end of the Cold War, we have no need for NATO.

Berlin is no longer divided. There is one Germany. Russian tanks are no longer west of the Oder, or even in Poland.

People in Vietnam are free to make shoes for me; I am free to travel in Vietnam.

 

[August1991]

Reagan and Churchill and Thatcher and Stalin wanted to defeat the enemy.

Chamberlain and Trudeau and Nixon and Brezhnev wanted to get along.

I reckon that we won when the Wall fell.

Since 1990, let"s get along.

[myata]

Where's "peace" here?

How do we stop Putin who came to grab a piece, or all why not? of your land? How do we stop Hitlers, in the wonderful multipolar peace world?

"Get along" with who? With Hitler? With mass murderer dictators who will invade and crush, whenever they choose, whoever they like, with no consequences and at will?

How many moons do you see in your Universe?

[August1991]

Thinking back: We and our western ideas won when Deng took control. I travelled in both China and the Soviet Union in the early 1980s.

China was already different. 

[August1991]

3 minutes ago, myata said:

.....

How do we stop Putin who came to grab a piece, or all why not? of your land? How do we stop Hitlers, in the wonderful multipolar peace world?

-----

Is Putin grabbing a piece? Or is he simply being a typical stubborn Slav: it was mine.

====

Napoleon and Hitler wanted to change the world. Putin is no Lenin.

 

[myata]

5 minutes ago, August1991 said:

it was mine.

I'm getting exhausted with that, sigh. Russia signed no less than six international treaties in which it recognized the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

This is what it means, an unprovoked aggression, "to barge in, invade, take by force" at will, whenever he wants it. Now just try to figure out how "multipolarity" would work in the world where every aspiring dictator could do that at will, the moment they lay their hands on the nukes and without NATO.

[August1991]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:05 AM, myata said:

I'm getting exhausted with that, sigh. Russia signed no less than six international treaties in which it recognized the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

This is what it means, an unprovoked aggression, "to barge in, invade, take by force" at will, whenever he wants it. Now just try to figure out how "multipolarity" would work in the world where every aspiring dictator could do that at will, the moment they lay their hands on the nukes and without NATO.

The Communists/Leninists/Soviets wanted to control/change the world.

Russians? Slavic people, stubborn.

======

America won the cold war in 1989/1991. Americans fought in Korea, Vietnam. 

We westerners defeated the communists. We have no need for NATO.  

[August1991]

Kissinger recently died. I recall a phrase from his work.

Kissinger believed in a balance of power, like Trudeau Snr.

Yet Kissinger said that the Soviets were Marxists and wanted to change the world.

[myata]

You are not answering direct, simple question: who will stop Hitler's; Putins and other, contemporary and future aggressive dictators bent on aggression, suppression and killing, in their countries and abroad?

A bullshit pipedream fantasy is not a real answer in the real world. Again?

[Nationalist]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:27 AM, myata said:

You are not answering direct, simple question: who will stop Hitler's; Putins and other, contemporary and future aggressive dictators bent on aggression, suppression and killing, in their countries and abroad?

A bullshit pipedream fantasy is not a real answer in the real world. Again?

NATO has lost Turkey and with it, Black Sea access and the second largest military in NATO. The organization is losing teeth.

Now...myata...did NATO promise to not expand east toward Russia? Yes it did. Did NATO promptly break that promise? Yes it did.

Did Ukrainian forces attack the Donbas in 2014? Yes it did. Did the people of the Donbas plead with Russia for protection? Yes they did.

Reality...its so...

Liberating.

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Now...myata...did NATO promise to not expand east toward Russia? Yes it did.

Wait, how do you know it? Promised, to who? Where can it be seen, the promise? Your buddy Putin whispered it to you, secretly?

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Wait, how do you know it? Promised, to who? Where can it be seen, the promise? Your buddy Putin whispered it to you, secretly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_in_Russia_regarding_the_legitimacy_of_eastward_NATO_expansion

See the Historical Context section.

[myata]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Yes it did.

"Controversy". Liar.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, myata said:

"Controversy". Liar.

Do you know what a controversy is myata.

(Oh lord...look who I'm askin'...)

Quote

con·tro·ver·sy

/ˈkäntrəˌvərsē/

 

noun

noun: controversy; plural noun: controversies

1. disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated.

Now...pay attention 'cause this is gonna be direct and straight to the point English.

1. Is there disagreement concerning any commitments made by NATO (read...USA) to not expand EXCEPT for East Germany? Yes.

2. This contraversy has been going on for decades. This it is "prolonged, public, and heated".

You can call Putin and his diplomatic core liars all you like. That changes nothing. The quotes made by NATO and UN officials says it all. This argument that it is not in writing, only further serves to show how untrustworthy the US government is...most of the time.

And myata...I happen to have been working in a Central European, former Soviet nation, Canuck embassy with NATO reps on staff. I remember the negotiations and heard what these reps discussed, concerning NATO and EU joining. I think I can safely say...it was all very interesting to watch.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Nationalist

[August1991]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:27 AM, myata said:

You are not answering direct, simple question: who will stop Hitler's; Putins and other, contemporary and future aggressive dictators bent on aggression, suppression and killing, in their countries and abroad?

A bullshit pipedream fantasy is not a real answer in the real world. Again?

Putin is not Hitler or Napoleon- anymore than Biden or Nixon is.

Putin does not want to dominate, change Europe. IMHO, Putin is a typical Russian Czar - he wants to ensure Russia exists.

[August1991]

Napoleon wanted to change the world.

Hitler wanted to change the world.

Lenin, he also, wanted to change the world.

=====

When Clinton, Bush Jnr and Blair bombed/invaded Serbia/Iraq, they too wanted to change the world.

[August1991]

7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

'....

And myata...I happen to have been working in a Central European, former Soviet nation, Canuck embassy with NATO reps on staff. I remember the negotiations and heard what these reps discussed, concerning NATO and EU joining. I think I can safely say...it was all very interesting to watch.

I remember those times.

At the time, 1990 or so, no one knew what would happen. I reckoned that we should bring as many places under our western NATO umbrella as possible.

It was the Cold War.

====

By 2000 and Blair's numerous flights to St. Petersburg to meet Putin, I should have known better.

Putin was learning politics. Blair didn't understand life.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by August1991

[myata]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Putin is not

Your fantasies for a meaningful answer? Only in your fantasy world.

[myata]

7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

(Oh lord...

There's no point in discussing anything with patented liars. They wouldn't be interested in understanding or establishing truth, only pumping more of their lies. Obviously.

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

I remember those times.

At the time, 1990 or so, no one knew what would happen. I reckoned that we should bring as many places under our western NATO umbrella as possible.

It was the Cold War.

====

By 2000 and Blair's numerous flights to St. Petersburg to meet Putin, I should have known better.

Putin was learning politics. Blair didn't understand life.

 

 

I think one of the biggest problems was, the Cold War was over, but very few were able to sè that.

Today a lot of people still think the Cold War is on. So much so that they've reignited it.

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, myata said:

There's no point in discussing anything with patented liars. They wouldn't be interested in understanding or establishing truth, only pumping more of their lies. Obviously.

What truth myata?

[myata]

44 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

What truth myata?

Exactly. You can, and will say anything whatever suits your ends. There's no service in this world to prove every of the boldface lies wrong one by one, and I've no interest in wasting my time. Moving on.

[Nationalist]

45 minutes ago, myata said:

Exactly. You can, and will say anything whatever suits your ends. There's no service in this world to prove every of the boldface lies wrong one by one, and I've no interest in wasting my time. Moving on.

lol...when pinned, you make thin excuses and move on.