TONIGHT'S DEBATE

[tml12]

Martin=Desperate

Duceppe=Incoherent

Layton=Profound

Harper=Direct

[Argus]

Martin=Desperate

Duceppe=Incoherent

Layton=Profound

Harper=Direct

I admit I didn't watch much of it. I can't stand politicians giving rehearsed, spin-doctored spiels. The longest part I caught was when they asked whether there were any Canadian values which would justify using the override clause in the constition (if I heard right). Layton spoke, talking about health care, i believe, and then Harper said something or other, and then Martin launched into a ludicrous rant about that old speech Harper gave 10 years back to that US conservative group, about Canada being a 2nd rate welfare state, and never actually answered or even addressed the question. I don't know if it was all like that but it just gave me even more contempt for Martin.

And yes, he sounded desperate.

[August1991]

I don't know if I would describe Layton as profound, but he did make a good sales pitch.

Martin was desperate, and I think frustrated. He came close several times to breaking through but it never quite came together.

Harper showed up and sounded like he knew what he was talking about. The guy's a policy wonk.

I have never quite understood who Duceppe is speaking to in these things. Anglo-Quebecers? Francophone political junkies who watch English debates? Quebec journalists? English-Canadians? He seems to do a bit of all that.

----

I thought it was funny when Duceppe tried to get Martin to say la nation québécoise.

I was also impressed with how Harper stepped around the various banana peels laid out for him about the notwithstanding clause, his leadership campaign funds and tax cuts.

[Cameron]

What I thought.

Martin = Same old song. All show and no go.

Duceppe = Like his attitude, not afraid to challenge the others. But still a separatists.

Layton = Looks like a salesman desperately trying to get you to buy the NDP.

Harper = Too stiff, garbled the message. He looked uncomfortable on stage.

But over all I didn't like the format. There seemed to be too many bated questions, you know. You are dammed if you do dammed if you don't.

[tml12]

I don't know if I would describe Layton as profound, but he did make a good sales pitch.

Martin was desperate, and I think frustrated. He came close several times to breaking through but it never quite came together.

Harper showed up and sounded like he knew what he was talking about. The guy's a policy wonk.

I have never quite understood who Duceppe is speaking to in these things. Anglo-Quebecers? Francophone political junkies who watch English debates? Quebec journalists? English-Canadians? He seems to do a bit of all that.

----

I thought it was funny when Duceppe tried to get Martin to say la nation québécoise.

I was also impressed with how Harper stepped around the various banana peels laid out for him about the notwithstanding clause, his leadership campaign funds and tax cuts.

Yes I am pro-Conservative. But I liked Layton's performance tonight. I would call it a tie between Layton and Harper (err and eureka...surely you can appreciate my honesty).

Duceppe commanded the French debate in December. I expect him to do it again tomorrow night. Correct me if I am wrong, but do you guys think Duceppe did a better job in English in 2004? He seems to be a little unsure of himself now.

Martin seemed desparate and fumbled a bit. Sure, a lot of Global viewers picked him as prime ministerial. But I think that is because he is the Prime Minister tonight. While I don't think he did a bad job, he did seem desparate and a little tired.

Overall, a good debate.

[Cameron]

But I liked Layton's performance tonight. I would call it a tie between Layton and Harper (err and eureka...surely you can appreciate my honesty).

I don't know...he seemed too "VOTE NDP!" for me. He was like that in the last election. He kind of goes into these uncomfortable poses. He is like that Video Professor person on infomercials...too "Buy ME, BUY ME!"

[tml12]

But I liked Layton's performance tonight. I would call it a tie between Layton and Harper (err and eureka...surely you can appreciate my honesty).

I don't know...he seemed to "VOTE NDP!" for me. He was like that in the last election. He kind of goes into these uncomfortable poses. He is like that Video Professor person on infomercials...to "Buy ME, BUY ME!"

LMAO Cameron you are SO right...I haven't seen those commercials in a long time...

But he wasn't as annoying as he was two years ago...you make good points though...

[August1991]

Also, about style:

I thought Martin kept raising his hands too often as if he was trying to gather his argument and present it physically. Once is OK, but not at every question.

Harper had this silly grin sometimes that made him look goofy when speaking about a serious issue.

Layton had this tendency to stare straight into the camera sometimes.

Did anyone else catch the moment when the camera caught Duceppe making starnge faces?

----

Overall, I thought it was good debate. Argus, you're wrong that it was merely established talking points. Layton and Martin frequently made accusations and even Harper felt obliged to respond. This format was better than the last because the moderator could allow rebuttals but it still lacked the direct one-on-one debates of 2004.

I thought the taped questions of December gave an edge that this debate lacked.

Incidentally, here is a link to Harper's leadership campaign contributions.

[tml12]

Also, about style:

I thought Martin kept raising his hands too often as if he was trying to gather his argument and present it physically. Once is OK, but not at every question.

Harper had this silly grin sometimes that made him look goofy when speaking about a serious issue.

Layton had this tendency to stare straight into the camera sometimes.

Did anyone else catch the moment when the camera caught Duceppe making starnge faces?

----

Overall, I thought it was good debate. Argus, you're wrong that it was merely established talking points. Layton and Martin frequently made accusations and even Harper felt obliged to respond. This format was better than the last because the moderator could allow rebuttals but it still lacked the direct one-on-one debates of 2004.

I thought the taped questions of December gave an edge that this debate lacked.

Incidentally, here is a link to Harper's leadership campaign contributions.

Duceppe WAS making strange faces at some point. He looked uncomfortable several times.

Layton stared into the camera A LOT, hence my saying he was "profound."

Martin raising his hands indicated a bit of desperation.

Harper's smiling was a bit forced, yet we know it is what his advisers wanted. His points were direct though.

[Canuck E Stan]

Did anyone else catch the moment when the camera caught Duceppe making starnge faces?

I think this took away from Captain Canada's rant, it made the viewer watch Duceppe instead of listenenig to Martin. Probably got a chuckle from Bloc supporters.

[Martial Shadow]

Harper was on message. Duceppe was on the attack but could not be understood. Martin is trying to stand up with his pants down and Layton is did quite well selling his ideas.

[tml12]

Harper was on message. Duceppe was on the attack but could not be understood. Martin is trying to stand up with his pants down and Layton is did quite well selling his ideas.

You know Martial Shadow, you don't post here every day but when you do you make good points.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[The Honest Politician]

The link on the CBC website (which won't work for me) has this for the link to Harpers contributions: Harper lists some of his leadership campaign contributors

Notice where it says some. There is something here. Why are not all donors disclosed?

[Wilber]

I thought they all did reasonably well considering what they had to work with and where they were trying to get. The polls will be interesting.

Martin - Feisty performance but a lot of baggage to overcome. Wonder if he convinced anyone.

Prefaced to many answers with a speech that had nothing to do with the question.

I find that irritating. Not a quitter though

Harper - Well controlled and reasonable. Generally got right to the question, and his answers on policy were

well delivered. A bit weak on a couple of questions concerning his political history.

Layton - Top marks for avoiding direct answers questions and also beginning with speeches that had

nothing to do with the question. Accused others of playing political games a couple of times. For

gods sake Jack, you're all politicians. We understand.

Duceppe- Smart guy. Good performance as usual but he only has to speak to Quebec, so he gets off easy.

[tml12]

The link on the CBC website (which won't work for me) has this for the link to Harpers contributions: Harper lists some of his leadership campaign contributors

Notice where it says some. There is something here. Why are not all donors disclosed?

Will the Liberals release the names of everyone involved with:

1) Spending our money.

2) Fixing our "democratic" elections.

3) Scamming our government

???

[scribblet]

Harper was on message. Duceppe was on the attack but could not be understood. Martin is trying to stand up with his pants down and Layton is did quite well selling his ideas.

Good points I agree with that assessment. I also had more of a problem this time understanding Duceppe, wonder why? Layton although got his points across, did sound like a salesman: Have I got a deal for you, vote NDP...it got to be funny.

The Martin tactic of wanting to get parliament to do away with the notwithstanding clause is a trap for Harper. Martin is by inference suggesting Harper will take away minority rights, when in fact, Harper has said he wouldn't use it. I don't think they should remove the NWC ( if they can actually do it) its a safeguard and the reason the Charter was accepted. This sounds like a desperate move on Martin's part and his Captain Canada act doesn't fly anymore.

[August1991]

The link on the CBC website (which won't work for me) has this for the link to Harpers contributions: Harper lists some of his leadership campaign contributors

Notice where it says some. There is something here. Why are not all donors disclosed?

HP, rather than highjack this thread, I'll respond in the other thread you created.

[CoachCartman]

Did anyone else catch the moment when the camera caught Duceppe making starnge faces?

I was laughing

I think Martin is out to lunch with his "not withstanding clause" rant. It would truly be scary if that safe guard was taken away. And he has the gall to say he's gonna open the charter after going after Harper? (Senate elections)

I agree with tml 12

Layton did better then I expected.

Harper did good.

I have been wondering about the latest political ads that have Martin, saying that the Conservative tax plan would put us back into a deficit. After watching the debate, I can see how Martin comes up with his numbers.

To do with Harper's Child care plan, ($1200.00 dollars a year per child under 6). My 6 year old daughter's math would have been better than Martin's math in the debate. He made 1200 dollars shrink down to one dollar a day after taxes.......

[Biblio Bibuli]

Martin=Desperate

Duceppe=Incoherent

Layton=Profound

Harper=Direct

Martin=Old money/ Father knows best

Duceppe=Debate king/Prime ministerial

Layton=Buddhist saddened by current world situation

Harper=Dull but studious guy at the back of the class

I have the perverse notion that if Gilles ran Bloc candidates in the ROC he'd wake up PM. He was the only one who could actually think on his feet & wasn't just Binder Boy.

God love Jack Layton ... he's such a delicate flower.

[Kula]

Personally I thought Harper won, because he didn't lose. Nobody zinged him. He did exactly what he had to do. He even got a great shot in at Martin shortly after Martin tried to play the passionate caring Quebecer card again. He questioned why Martin wouldn't debate Duceppe after saying he would debate him anytime. Good one.

I actually like Layton, but he seemed like he was trying to be too compassionate. Fake compassion really comes off bad on tv.

Martin lost because he didn't win. No knockout punch tonight and he needed a knockout punch.

CTV announced that the Conservatives have 14 point lead on the Liberals according to Ipsos Reid. Another poll has the Conservatives ahead 21% to 15% in Quebec.

Kula

[CoachCartman]

Kula Posted Today, 11:33 PM

Personally I thought Harper won, because he didn't lose. Nobody zinged him. He did exactly what he had to do. He even got a great shot in at Martin shortly after Martin tried to play the passionate caring Quebecer card again. He questioned why Martin wouldn't debate Duceppe after saying he would debate him anytime. Good one.

another 30 seconds it would have been the knockout punch.......

[Leafless]

Mr. Martin sounded more dictatorial than ever when he suggested removing the notwithstanding clause from the federal level and having the courts rule on everything and looked very uncomfortable and it was clear he was after Stephen Harpers head rather than answer questions properly.

Jack Layton for sure would make a good used car salesman but over emphasized his social policies.

Mr. Duceppe of course is free to say anything he pleases as he does not have to represent Canada or really be accountable and for that reason I don't really know why he is even there. He looked uncomfortable and seemed his thoughts were not focused on the debate.

I think Stephen Harper won hands down was cool and collective and presented his policies and arguments in a rational proffessional manner.

Steve the moderator borrowed from TVO really made a difference in this debate.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Did anyone else catch the moment when the camera caught Duceppe making starnge faces?

I think this took away from Captain Canada's rant, it made the viewer watch Duceppe instead of listenenig to Martin. Probably got a chuckle from Bloc supporters.

It took away from Martin's on camera time because everyone was watching Duceppe's facial expressions. Including the camera.

They weren't so strange ... just facial variations on the gallic shrug.

[scribblet]

whoops wrong thread.

[Canuck E Stan]

Any relationship to the big boys being in town today?

Montreal January 9 2006