Southern Border? - No Longer Exists

[August1991]

We in Canada can have a "southern border". Foreigners don't like to live here because it is too cold. (Not now in Oct 2023 but that's another story..... )

Like it or not, people can easily travel nowadays. Foreigners marry Japanese women and Koreans learn English.

This idea of a border between Texas and Mexico is utopic.

Despite the cold, even Norway now has immigrants. Iceland - an island - has immigrants.

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At issue, how do we bring all these kids into this new century. No child is born with the knowledge of how to take a derivative or tie a shoe-lace.

Does it take a village? Uh, no. 

[Michael Hardner]

We have to start to think about declining population, environmental problems and how the political economy relates to these things...

The old rules don't apply anymore, including National borders.  The nation state really isn't that old an idea in the grand scheme of things it was only around for a couple of hundred years of our history...

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

We have to start to think about declining population, environmental problems and how the political economy relates to these things...

The old rules don't apply anymore, including National borders.  The nation state really isn't that old an idea in the grand scheme of things it was only around for a couple of hundred years of our history...

National borders don't apply anymore? Now there's a purely bullshit idea. Anything else you'd like to destroy while you're at it?

[August1991]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:27 AM, Nationalist said:

National borders don't apply anymore?

....

National borders still exist - but in a different way.

Check how our OAP or CPP is calculated, determined.

[August1991]

On 10/7/2023 at 6:36 AM, Michael Hardner said:

We have to start to think about declining population, environmental problems ....

Disagree.

Declining population? Environment?

Most immigrants to Canada live near Toronto or Vancouver.

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For many centuries: Iceland, like Newfoundland, has a sustainable population.  

 

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

Disagree.

Declining population? Environment?

Most immigrants to Canada live near Toronto or Vancouver.

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For many centuries: Iceland, like Newfoundland, has a sustainable population.  

 

The pill became popular fifty years ago.  Centuries ago isn't relevant.

[August1991]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:13 AM, Michael Hardner said:

The pill became popular fifty years ago.  Centuries ago isn't relevant.

Iceland has had a population of some 300,000 for several centuries.

The island of Newfoundland had a population of some 200,000 in 1900.

To me, this is the definition of sustainable.

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Iceland has had a population of some 300,000 for several centuries.

The island of Newfoundland had a population of some 200,000 in 1900.

To me, this is the definition of sustainable.

Those places are anomalies... And here's the graph of Iceland's population over time.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[August1991]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Those places are anomalies... And here's the graph of Iceland population

 

 

They are not anomalies.

But fair enough... I was wrong. Iceland had only a population of some 70,000 in 1700 

And according to Google, about the same in 1900 - some 80,000.

[August1991]

How these various people, Icelanders or Newfoundlanders, have managed over the years - I can only imagine.

But I suspect that they live better now - not because of more people - they live better because of trade and new technology.

They are not better off because there are more people among them. That's a fool's errand.

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For centuries, whether 100,000 or 500,000, these places are sustainable.

Edited October 11, 2023 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

They are not anomalies.

The latest report from Bangladesh shows it's birthrate has now dipped below replacement.  Bangladesh will now start to see depopulation - Bangladesh !

The economics of depopulation is chronically understudied and we will be seeing impacts that will baffle the 'everyman' who thinks political economics is about tarriffs, zero immigration and identity politics.

[impartialobserver]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:26 AM, Michael Hardner said:

The latest report from Bangladesh shows it's birthrate has now dipped below replacement.  Bangladesh will now start to see depopulation - Bangladesh !

The economics of depopulation is chronically understudied and we will be seeing impacts that will baffle the 'everyman' who thinks political economics is about tarriffs, zero immigration and identity politics.

 I do think that we will not see tangible effects for at least another 10 years. When the data starts making change not just abstract but reality.. the changes will be both interesting and baffling. Most social safety nets are based on the assumption of steadily increasing population growth. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

 I do think that we will not see tangible effects for at least another 10 years. When the data starts making change not just abstract but reality.. the changes will be both interesting and baffling. Most social safety nets are based on the assumption of steadily increasing population growth. 

Tangible effects of what ?  Depopulation ?  It's like sand through an hourglass though... there won't be any big change just sow and pervasive increases in labour costs... like most important changes it will go unnoticed... like the trees on Easter Island or a frog in boiling water.

There's an argument that some of the inflation we are seeing now is attributable to China's demographics.  Not sure how we could evaluate the claim but something for sure will be happening.

[August1991]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:26 AM, Michael Hardner said:

The latest report from Bangladesh shows it's birthrate has now dipped below replacement.  Bangladesh will now start to see depopulation - Bangladesh !

The economics of depopulation is chronically understudied...

Michael,

The world does not lack children. It lacks educated children.

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Our planet can support several billion more - and if, by chance, one of those is a Euler, a Newton, a Einstein...

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by August1991

[August1991]

The world of von Neuman and Einstein no longer exists. I mean, the civilised, multi-cultural world of their life.

Why did this civilised Europe collapse/implode in August 1914?

[impartialobserver]

20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Tangible effects of what ?  Depopulation ?  It's like sand through an hourglass though... there won't be any big change just sow and pervasive increases in labour costs... like most important changes it will go unnoticed... like the trees on Easter Island or a frog in boiling water.

There's an argument that some of the inflation we are seeing now is attributable to China's demographics.  Not sure how we could evaluate the claim but something for sure will be happening.

Depopulation. on the smaller scale.. we are seeing what depopulation does to places like Wyoming and West Virginia. Continued out migration coupled with negative birth rates (deaths exceed births) has led to a decline in their local social services (police, fire dept). On the bigger scale, the changes will come due to lack of tax revenues. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

Depopulation. on the smaller scale.. we are seeing what depopulation does to places like Wyoming and West Virginia. Continued out migration coupled with negative birth rates (deaths exceed births) has led to a decline in their local social services (police, fire dept). On the bigger scale, the changes will come due to lack of tax revenues. 

Well sure but that's not new - that's just migration away.  Depopulation on a national and global scale without war and such is something even more rare and hard to assess.

[August1991]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, impartialobserver said:

Depopulation. on the smaller scale.. we are seeing what depopulation does to places like Wyoming and West Virginia. Continued out migration coupled with negative birth rates (deaths exceed births) has led to a decline in their local social services (police, fire dept). On the bigger scale, the changes will come due to lack of tax revenues. 

The world does not lack for children. Like kittens, we have many of those.  

The world lacks educated children -kids who know how to tie their shoelaces.

[August1991]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, impartialobserver said:

Depopulation. on the smaller scale.. we are seeing what depopulation does to places like Wyoming and West Virginia. Continued out migration coupled with negative birth rates (deaths exceed births) has led to a decline in their local social services (police, fire dept). On the bigger scale, the changes will come due to lack of tax revenues. 

OK. I get your argument. I know Newfoundland and regional Quebec,

My answer?

Iceland. 300,000 people. They have survived for several centuries. 

[impartialobserver]

On 10/14/2023 at 10:15 PM, August1991 said:

The world does not lack for children. Like kittens, we have many of those.  

The world lacks educated children -kids who know how to tie their shoelaces.

Depopulation does not mean they are no children.. come on now. It means that less children are being produced today than in the past. All you have to do is look at birth rates in the developed world. 

[August1991]

9 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

Depopulation does not mean they are no children.. come on now. It means that less children are being produced today than in the past. All you have to do is look at birth rates in the developed world. 

No child is born with the ability to tie a shoe lace. We must teach each child how to do this.

Every time a person dies, their knowledge is lost.

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How we organize ourselves matters. I prefer a federal state. 

[impartialobserver]

13 hours ago, August1991 said:

No child is born with the ability to tie a shoe lace. We must teach each child how to do this.

Every time a person dies, their knowledge is lost.

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How we organize ourselves matters. I prefer a federal state. 

Going off into left field.. the point of this is not education or quality of education. It is lower birth rates and depopulation. 

[August1991]

On 10/18/2023 at 12:10 PM, impartialobserver said:

Going off into left field.. the point of this is not education or quality of education. It is lower birth rates and depopulation. 

Disagree.

We in Canada are fortunate that we live in a cold climate.

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Steve Jobs famously said that death is the ultimate change agent.