Is popular democracy doomed in the time of instant news?

[myata]

Taking right off the news, how many poor folk lost so much (some, all what they had) with the collapse of some crypto house. Earlier, same story with Theranos.

Important here that these aren't just your ordinary folk, from the street. They were supposed to know; have experience; check the information; think; and think again. Doesn't work this way. The return is too high. The distance between the desirable and imagined, and the reality on the other side, grows and beats all questions and doubts. Exponentially?

Now, let's consider an average individual in a popular democracy these days. If the times are rolling good, Joe is happy, buys stuff for the cave, goes on annual vacation maybe even twice. In the elections, his first and main priority would be for the things to keep rolling. That is, don't change anything, don't fix it even if a change anticipating problems or laying foundations for future is really needed.

And then, there are times of uncertainty. Brexit. One in three in Europe votes against the establishment. The old prosperity model seems to be stalling and nobody knows what the new one will be, or if. How would we vote? Would we think, talk and discuss necessary, possibly difficult solutions? Or go with the Theranos and Sam something strategy, push for where it looks more like what you want, and who cares if and how realistic. Vote for me and all your problems are solved. I'm telling you. Just believe. The news spreads at the lightspeed. Yes, there's new hope: just push the button, here.

Is it the final, ultimate answer?

 

[Michael Hardner]

The main problems we have are: Unity, economy and environment.

Unity: people have to get used to hearing a LOT of dissent from people who are not like them.  Rural Christians - your kids will be taught that trans is normal.  Get used to it.  Urbanites - you will have to accept that lots of people despise you and don't accept liberal city lifestyles.  Get used to it.

Economy: Our real GDP per capita is higher than ever.  If the model starts to break, then it's tax the rich and CERB time...  

The alternative is revolution.

[myata]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Economy: Our real GDP per capita

It would not be the full story, is it though? Shared, broad prosperity is not equal to "GDP per capita". We may have the first cues, like why would a third of the population feel unhappy and restless? Why folks across the planet pick loudmouth lying populists if the system was working so great for them? There has to be the reason(s), right? except we're trying our best to shake it off till it's staring us right in the face and completely blocks the way. It's been this way like always. So what have we learned.

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If the model starts to break, then it's tax the rich and CERB time... 

except that doesn't work

the wealthy will simply flee offshore

printing money to pay for everything is what has incited the inflationary debt crisis

mind you, the real threat is deflation

when the massive bubble bursts

and prices & wages start to fall

otherwise known as a depression 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, myata said:

It would not be the full story, is it though? Shared, broad prosperity is not equal to "GDP per capita". We may have the first cues, like why would a third of the population feel unhappy and restless? Why folks across the planet pick loudmouth lying populists if the system was working so great for them? There has to be the reason(s), right? except we're trying our best to shake it off till it's staring us right in the face and completely blocks the way. It's been this way like always. So what have we learned.

You missed my next sentence.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You missed my next sentence.

And looks like you're missing the point too. The old model of relative prosperity is stagnating. The folks down below already felt it and for a while. So band aids may not work. That just may be why they are following big mouths and deep throats promising them to bring back good old times, except in this reality time isn't going back. The only way forward is to come up with a) new and b) working better. And here, we have a problem: who's thinking? And who is interested and invested, in working positive change?

 

[Michael Hardner]

54 minutes ago, myata said:

And looks like you're missing the point too. The old model of relative prosperity is stagnating. The folks down below already felt it and for a while. So band aids may not work. That just may be why they are following big mouths and deep throats promising them to bring back good old times, except in this reality time isn't going back. The only way forward is to come up with a) new and b) working better. And here, we have a problem: who's thinking? And who is interested and invested, in working positive change?

 

Yeah you definitely missed my next sentence...

[myata]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yeah you definitely missed my next sentence...

What, CERB? Bread and circuses, like two millennia back?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

What, CERB? Bread and circuses, like two millennia back?

Yes, precisely.  Please note I did not say this was a good thing.

[myata]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Please note I did not say this was a good thing.

Ah I see it was a well-veiled irony. Well, irony means nothing to the evolution. Whoever fails to change, renew and adapt will be replaced by something else eventually. Talking never counts.

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, myata said:

Ah I see it was a well-veiled irony. Well, irony means nothing to the evolution. Whoever fails to change, renew and adapt will be replaced by something else eventually. Talking never counts.

A new CERB would be a change, renewal, and adaptation.

[myata]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

A new CERB would be a change, renewal, and adaptation.

No. It would only be the millennia old handout thing, and for an obvious reason: it would provide a survival-level, probably second or third rate living standard and not shared, broad and sustained prosperity. So, it would fix nothing.

We will need to find a way to involve citizens directly in important choices and decisions. Like in juries, only for political matters. Broad citizen panels to understand and discuss problems and solutions with reason, intelligence and responsibility. More referendums, way more. Or back to the default options: rule by elites, or mob. The same thing more or less, in the history perspective.

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, myata said:

No. It would only be the millennia old handout thing, and for an obvious reason: it would provide a survival-level, probably second or third rate living standard and not shared, broad and sustained prosperity. So, it would fix nothing.

We will need to find a way to involve citizens directly in important choices and decisions. Like in juries, only for political matters. Broad citizen panels to understand and discuss problems and solutions with reason, intelligence and responsibility. More referendums, way more. Or back to the default options: rule by elites, or mob. The same thing more or less, in the history perspective.

I didn't say it would be a long-term fix but it would be a change, renewal, adaptation.

What you're calling for sounds like a great idea, but implementing it would take longer than the collapse that is in motion now.

Direct democracy for people who haven't got deep knowledge, and who have been listening to either mainstream media or Internet chuds wouldn't make sense.  Designing an actual Democratic process would take generations.

[myata]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What you're calling for sounds like a great idea, but implementing it would take longer than the collapse that is in motion now.

There are no quick fixes to evolutionary dead ends. One has to change or fade away. Repetition of the default modes, worshiping the leader/elites and mob rule will get us there, eventually.

[Michael Hardner]

47 minutes ago, myata said:

There are no quick fixes to evolutionary dead ends. One has to change or fade away. Repetition of the default modes, worshiping the leader/elites and mob rule will get us there, eventually.

I appreciate your perspective.