Why we must prevent Harper from becoming PM

[Black Dog]

It allows parents the choice of having a spouse home with their kids, paying a family member they trust to watch their kids and some flexibility in when they can work.

$20 a week is not enough to allow a family that would otherwise need two incomes to cut out one income, nor is it much compensation for family members to watch the kids.

Like it or not, daycare doesn't help people working afternoons or midnights. The conservative plan helps everyone equally. Not just the 9-5ers like the Liberal and NDP plans do.

As I say above, given that the Tory plan is barely enough to cover a babysitter, let alone a daycare facility, how does it help people working nights?

[Hicksey]

It allows parents the choice of having a spouse home with their kids, paying a family member they trust to watch their kids and some flexibility in when they can work.

$20 a week is not enough to allow a family that would otherwise need two incomes to cut out one income, nor is it much compensation for family members to watch the kids.

Like it or not, daycare doesn't help people working afternoons or midnights. The conservative plan helps everyone equally. Not just the 9-5ers like the Liberal and NDP plans do.

As I say above, given that the Tory plan is barely enough to cover a babysitter, let alone a daycare facility, how does it help people working nights?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not the answer but its 20 a week more than the Liberals and NDP have given.

I personally think a good start is to eliminate the marriage penalty. Each Canadian should get the same amount of pretax income -- regardless of living arrangements.

[justcrowing]

Gosh, oh gee by golly - how did people ever manage when both worked and paid for a sitter without the need for government daycare or subsidies?

[Hicksey]

Gosh, oh gee by golly - how did people ever manage when both worked and paid for a sitter without the need for government daycare or subsidies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Back then we weren't walking around like the people from the commercial with the Grits hands in our pockets.

[daniel]

Gosh, oh gee by golly - how did people ever manage when both worked and paid for a sitter without the need for government daycare or subsidies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Having struggled through the many childcare options without strong government regulatins and standards, I wouldn't wish it for anybody else. Hence, the long overdue national daycare program is finally addressing what many parents have been calling for for decades.

[scribblet]

Gosh, oh gee by golly - how did people ever manage when both worked and paid for a sitter without the need for government daycare or subsidies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Having struggled through the many childcare options without strong government regulatins and standards, I wouldn't wish it for anybody else. Hence, the long overdue national daycare program is finally addressing what many parents have been calling for for decades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In other words a complete nanny-state no thanks

[justcrowing]

Gosh, oh gee by golly - how did people ever manage when both worked and paid for a sitter without the need for government daycare or subsidies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Having struggled through the many childcare options without strong government regulatins and standards, I wouldn't wish it for anybody else. Hence, the long overdue national daycare program is finally addressing what many parents have been calling for for decades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many parents [?] calling for national daycare [i don't recall calling for it] - it is the single moms [a fast growing increasing population] and today's spoiled that get everything handed to them generation that are wanting this. Has anyone actually sat down and figured out how much it really costs for a spouse to work?? My spouse & I both worked and found more than enough good sitters at reasonable cost. These sitters were mostly moms who wanted to stay home and took in kids for the extra money [tax free too] needed. Our son got better care than he would in a daycare. But then socialists do not know how to assume responsiblity for themselves - they need government to subsidize and lead them by the hand. How many are willing to purchase a small fixer upper home; purchase 2nd hand furniture; go camping instead of Hawaii; make do with one car and not a car for each member of the family; try good old fashioned home cooking rather than junk food and eating out; & so on.??? I have seen the food baskets of young women in grocery stores and I would say none of them had food there that can be prepared without chemicals or from scratch. Pre-packaged food is expensive and why fill ones body with all those preservatives??? No time, some will say - then I will say, ever learn to make casseroles, use slow cookers, or take the time to prepare enough meals for a few days and freeze them?

So now the whine that the money allocated is not enough and that one cannot make their own subsidized choices but can only accept those choices doled out by government or be left out of the loop - so much for equality. Be grateful for whatever assistance is given rather than whine it is not enough. So when is enough actually enough??

[Melanie_]

Like it or not, daycare doesn't help people working afternoons or midnights.  The conservative plan helps everyone equally.  Not just the 9-5ers like the Liberal and NDP plans do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are centres and licensed family child care homes that offer extended hour care, evening and overnight care, and weekend care - the myth of the 9 to 5 hours is something the Conservatives like to promote, even though it isn't true. The Liberal plan could expand these programs to meet the needs of even more families; the Conservative plan would invest in even larger corporate big box child care centres, likely only in urban settings, whose mandate is profit rather than serving the needs of children and their families.

[justcrowing]

Like it or not, daycare doesn't help people working afternoons or midnights.  The conservative plan helps everyone equally.  Not just the 9-5ers like the Liberal and NDP plans do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are centres and licensed family child care homes that offer extended hour care, evening and overnight care, and weekend care - the myth of the 9 to 5 hours is something the Conservatives like to promote, even though it isn't true. The Liberal plan could expand these programs to meet the needs of even more families; the Conservative plan would invest in even larger corporate big box child care centres, likely only in urban settings, whose mandate is profit rather than serving the needs of children and their families.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what you are saying in order to receive Liberal assistance, you must institutionalize ones children rather than have the choice of having an "inhome nanny" or a stay at home mom, friend or relative who is willing to provide care for extra money they need??

[Melanie_]

Many parents [?]  calling for national daycare [i don't recall calling for it]  - it is the single moms [a fast growing increasing population] and today's spoiled that get everything handed to them generation that are wanting this.  Has anyone actually sat down and figured out how much it really costs for a spouse to work??  My spouse & I both worked and found more than enough good sitters at reasonable cost.  These sitters were mostly moms who wanted to stay home and took in kids for the extra money [tax free too] needed.  Our son got better care than he would in a daycare.  But then socialists do not know how to assume responsiblity for themselves - they need government to subsidize and lead them by the hand.  How many are  willing to purchase a small fixer upper home;  purchase 2nd hand furniture; go camping instead of Hawaii; make do with one car and not a car for each member of the family; try good old fashioned home cooking rather than junk food and eating out; & so on.???  I have seen the food baskets of young women in grocery stores and I would say none of them had food there that can be prepared without chemicals or from scratch.  Pre-packaged food is expensive and why fill ones body with all those preservatives???  No time, some will say - then I will say, ever learn to make casseroles, use slow cookers,  or take the time to prepare enough meals for a few days and freeze them? 

So now the whine that the money allocated is not enough and that one cannot make their own subsidized choices but can only accept those choices doled out by government or be left out of the loop - so much for equality.  Be grateful for whatever assistance is given rather than whine it is not enough.  So when is enough actually enough??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have news for you, jc, you used daycare. It may not have been licensed, it may have been casual, it may have consisted of a procession of short term arrangements, but it was daycare.

The national program is not about subsidizing everyone. People will still pay a user fee, unless they are very low income. The program is more about making sure good quality care is available for those who need it. The moms you left your son with could have simply applied for a license and undergone an inspection, and they would have qualified for any funding the national program is doling out.

[justcrowing]

Many parents [?]  calling for national daycare [i don't recall calling for it]  - it is the single moms [a fast growing increasing population] and today's spoiled that get everything handed to them generation that are wanting this.  Has anyone actually sat down and figured out how much it really costs for a spouse to work??  My spouse & I both worked and found more than enough good sitters at reasonable cost.  These sitters were mostly moms who wanted to stay home and took in kids for the extra money [tax free too] needed.  Our son got better care than he would in a daycare.  But then socialists do not know how to assume responsiblity for themselves - they need government to subsidize and lead them by the hand.  How many are  willing to purchase a small fixer upper home;  purchase 2nd hand furniture; go camping instead of Hawaii; make do with one car and not a car for each member of the family; try good old fashioned home cooking rather than junk food and eating out; & so on.???  I have seen the food baskets of young women in grocery stores and I would say none of them had food there that can be prepared without chemicals or from scratch.  Pre-packaged food is expensive and why fill ones body with all those preservatives???  No time, some will say - then I will say, ever learn to make casseroles, use slow cookers,  or take the time to prepare enough meals for a few days and freeze them? 

So now the whine that the money allocated is not enough and that one cannot make their own subsidized choices but can only accept those choices doled out by government or be left out of the loop - so much for equality.  Be grateful for whatever assistance is given rather than whine it is not enough.  So when is enough actually enough??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have news for you, jc, you used daycare. It may not have been licensed, it may have been casual, it may have consisted of a procession of short term arrangements, but it was daycare.

The national program is not about subsidizing everyone. People will still pay a user fee, unless they are very low income. The program is more about making sure good quality care is available for those who need it. The moms you left your son with could have simply applied for a license and undergone an inspection, and they would have qualified for any funding the national program is doling out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong!! We did not use daycare in any shape, way or form. The mom our son stayed with was a personal friend with two children who chose not to work outside the home. There was no licensing nor inspections that were mandatory - parents made their own choices, screening and decisions. Others we knew, hired nannies - offering room & board with a small salary but those were in a higher income category and could afford to do so, we could not. At any rate, we made it and our son learned responsibility without whining for government handouts.

Furthermore, one spouse worked full time, the other part time in order to keep a hand in the work force. Wages by no means were high from the full time worker. It was good money management, and self-reliance that was the drive and not the easy way out.

So when is enough, actually enough?? And tell me why only for state run institutions should parents receive assistance and not for those who want to make their own choices?

[The Honest Politician]

Wrong!!  We did not use daycare in any shape, way or form.  The mom our son stayed with was a personal friend with two children who chose not to work outside the home.  There was no licensing nor inspections that were mandatory - parents made their own choices, screening and decisions.  Others we knew, hired nannies - offering room & board with a small salary but those were in a higher income category and could afford to do so, we could not.  At any rate, we made it and our son learned responsibility without whining for government  handouts. 

Furthermore, one spouse worked full time, the other part time in order to keep a hand in the work force.  Wages by no means were high from the full time worker.  It was good money management, and self-reliance that was the drive and not the easy way out.

So when is enough, actually enough??  And tell me why only for state run institutions should parents receive assistance and not for those who want to make their own choices?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now if your child had been severly injured would her house insurance still have covered her and her unlicensed business afterwards?

This is another issue the Conservative daycare policy will bring up eventually, as it slowly self-destructs.

[shoop]

Why not enforce licensing and insurance on home daycare operators? Why must all new daycare spaces created be at government run institutions?

Now if your child had been severly injured would her house insurance still have covered her and her unlicensed business afterwards?

This is another issue the Conservative daycare policy will bring up eventually, as it slowly self-destructs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[The Honest Politician]

Why not enforce licensing and insurance on home daycare operators? Why must all new daycare spaces created be at government run institutions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And exactly how are you planning on Licensing the daycare operators and monitoring the insurance companies. Throw some more conservative money at it???

For a plan that is supposed to save the people money it sure has a ton of back-door expenses. I'm sorry, but the plan is a bust.

[Guest eureka]

Would you prefer a spelling bee, movich? A competititon in the uses of figures of speech? A grammatical test?

You show as much aptitude for thise games as you do understanding about "Freedoms."

Freedom of choice is about the silliest expression that could be used and is another Conservative slogan for the deaf and blind. Freedom of choice for what if it is to be called a freedom.

Freedom of choice in how to spend your tax credits is not a freedom to be boasted of. It is a gift that comes at the expense of freedom for others. Freedom of any kind is n illusion without the economic wherewithal to exercise the freedoms we supposedly have.

Those who would be deprived of the freedom that comes with economic certainty by your preferred choice do not have freedom of choice; and are constrained in the exercise of other "protected" freedoms.

You have not a clue what Freedom means and are easy prey for this Conservative thrust.

[justcrowing]

I see - freedom of choice is like Liberal dictatorship who make choices for you and give you all the handouts after taxing everyone to death ...

[justcrowing]

Wrong!!  We did not use daycare in any shape, way or form.  The mom our son stayed with was a personal friend with two children who chose not to work outside the home.  There was no licensing nor inspections that were mandatory - parents made their own choices, screening and decisions.  Others we knew, hired nannies - offering room & board with a small salary but those were in a higher income category and could afford to do so, we could not.  At any rate, we made it and our son learned responsibility without whining for government  handouts. 

Furthermore, one spouse worked full time, the other part time in order to keep a hand in the work force.  Wages by no means were high from the full time worker.  It was good money management, and self-reliance that was the drive and not the easy way out.

So when is enough, actually enough??  And tell me why only for state run institutions should parents receive assistance and not for those who want to make their own choices?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now if your child had been severly injured would her house insurance still have covered her and her unlicensed business afterwards?

This is another issue the Conservative daycare policy will bring up eventually, as it slowly self-destructs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For one - she did not run an unlicensed business. She did this as a friend. She hung no signs, did not advertise - nada!! Have you never left a child with a friend? What if, what if - well an injury did not happen to our son nor her own children. The fact that we chose to give her payment does not mean she was running a business.

I asked the question before - when is enough, actually enough and no one answered it? Why? Because for socialists it is never enough - socialists would, for self interests, bleed a working stiff who is just managing, completely because they believe everyone should fill their stretched out hands. Oh I forgot, the getting by working stiff is rich...

[scribblet]

I see - freedom of choice is like Liberal  dictatorship who make choices for you and give you all the handouts after taxing everyone to death  ...  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but you know how it goes: if we don't agree with current liberal mantra we don't have a clue about freedom or anything else for that matter ROTFLMAO

[betsy]

Now if your child had been severly injured would her house insurance still have covered her and her unlicensed business afterwards?

I run a home daycare privately, and yes I do have insurance for it.

A lot of home daycares offering QUALITY service have insurance.

[betsy]

The moms you left your son with could have simply applied for a license and undergone an inspection, and they would have qualified for any funding the national program is doling out.

But the bureaucracy is killing this system! I used to be with a licensed agency such as you speak about and believe me, children's welfare is not the priority!

They are nothing more than an employment agency protecting their coshy jobs.

Here is an example....

They placed an infant with me and I had been caring for this child for more than a year. The child had adjusted well, and had developed a healthy friendship with our group. There was undeniably an attachment formed between me and this child.

Then, the mother found her financial situation had improved. She no longer qualified for subsidy. The agency wanted her to pay the full amount if she wants to keep her space with me. The amount was for $40.00. The going rate at the time in our community for a private home daycare was $20.00 So she had to pay double the competitive rate to keep using this government agency.

The mother came to me and said that she'll be forced to find somebody else....but before she does, she just wanted to know if I am willing to take her child under a private arrangement. I am allowed by the government agency to take on private children if I have a space.

I know and have formed a bond with this child. Of course I was willing to take her as a private client. The agency accused me of stealing their client.

It is odd that the agency would rather see the child ripped from the environment she'd grown used to, ripped her from friends....just because the mother will not pay the ridiculous full amount.

The mother, instead of being praised and applauded to finally have become self-sufficient, without reelying on subsidies....was instead being penalized for becoming financially independent.

Several of caregivers have left this agency....it's like they have a revolving door when it comes to careproviders.

It is never about the welfare of children for them.

[scribblet]

Of course its not about the welfare of the kids for Liberals, its about nationalizing and controlling lives - to heck with what you think is best for your kids.

[wellandboy]

Freedom of choice is about the silliest expression that could be used and is another Conservative slogan for the deaf and blind. Freedom of choice for what if it is to be called a freedom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You say freedom of choice is silly. Does that include a woman's right to choose, re- abortions or is choice only available to those who subscribe to your particular political philosophy?

[Guest eureka]

If you want to engage in political discussions, then get a brain!

[shoop]

Eureka, that is going too far.

If you want to engage in political discussions, then get a brain!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Black Dog]

It's not the answer but its 20 a week more than the Liberals and NDP have given.

Apples and oranges. I'd like to see a plan that gives parents who rely on daycare the assurance that there will be spaces available in facilities with qualified, trained and regulated staff. people using childcare options other than daycare won't be helped by this, of course, but neither will they get much from Harpers plan.

Many parents [?] calling for national daycare [i don't recall calling for it] - it is the single moms [a fast growing increasing population] and today's spoiled that get everything handed to them generation that are wanting this.

I'd say single moms are probably the one's most in need of such a program, so yeah, I can see why they'd want it.

My spouse & I both worked and found more than enough good sitters at reasonable cost. These sitters were mostly moms who wanted to stay home and took in kids for the extra money [tax free too] needed. Our son got better care than he would in a daycare

Anecdote ain't data. I've heard plenty of horror stories of unregulated, unlicensed childcare facilities.

But then socialists do not know how to assume responsiblity for themselves - they need government to subsidize and lead them by the hand. How many are willing to purchase a small fixer upper home; purchase 2nd hand furniture; go camping instead of Hawaii; make do with one car and not a car for each member of the family; try good old fashioned home cooking rather than junk food and eating out; & so on.??? I have seen the food baskets of young women in grocery stores and I would say none of them had food there that can be prepared without chemicals or from scratch. Pre-packaged food is expensive and why fill ones body with all those preservatives??? No time, some will say - then I will say, ever learn to make casseroles, use slow cookers, or take the time to prepare enough meals for a few days and freeze them?

So what you're saying is people don't know how to spend their own money.

Wrong!! We did not use daycare in any shape, way or form. The mom our son stayed with was a personal friend with two children who chose not to work outside the home. There was no licensing nor inspections that were mandatory - parents made their own choices, screening and decisions. Others we knew, hired nannies - offering room & board with a small salary but those were in a higher income category and could afford to do so, we could not. At any rate, we made it and our son learned responsibility without whining for government handouts.

Not everyone has the same options.

And tell me why only for state run institutions should parents receive assistance and not for those who want to make their own choices?

So basically, you're not oppossed to government handouts at all. You just want everyone to get a handout.

I asked the question before - when is enough, actually enough and no one answered it? Why? Because for socialists it is never enough - socialists would, for self interests, bleed a working stiff who is just managing, completely because they believe everyone should fill their stretched out hands. Oh I forgot, the getting by working stiff is rich...

No one answered it because it's a stupid ass question.

I still fail to see how the NDP plan or even the Liberal's plan have any impact on choice. If people want to choose to put their kids in the hands of neighbours, or private day cares, they still can. But there should be something out there for people to whom those options aren't available.