Two-tiered NDP

[betsy]

I'm referring to the two-tiered justice system, which apparently NDP is condoning.

Sven Robinson confessed to theft ($35,000.? worth), and his way of justifying that?

Stress. Tremendous stress!

Tell that to practically everyone, especially those living in poverty, juggling children and a low-paying or non-existent job, single parents, etc.., And here is this "charmed" guy (from the perspective of practically everyone suffering from the conditions above), who had the nerve to run again.

It's easy to get cynical about the justice system when all he got was a slap in the wrist, with no criminal conviction (to keep the coast clear for him to get back into politics, no doubt).

If this were just about any man on the street who suffers from stress that he decided to rob a corner store, you think he will come off easily with not even a criminal record?

For all Layton's talk about the so-called two-tiered system in the healthcare policy (which actually does not interpret that way when I listened to what Harper said),

NDP just showed clearly that a two-tiered system of justice is perfectly alright, and downright supports it so. Of course, only the "privileged" gets that silky glove treatment. Now, that is scary!

[newbie]

Sven Robinson confessed to theft ($35,000.? worth), and his way of justifying that?

Stress.  Tremendous stress!

Tell that to practically everyone, especially those living in poverty, juggling children and a low-paying or non-existent job, single parents, etc..,  And here is this "charmed" guy (from the perspective of practically everyone suffering from the conditions above), who had the nerve to run again.

It's easy to get cynical about the justice system when all he got was a slap in the wrist, with no criminal conviction (to keep the coast clear for him to get back into politics, no doubt). 

If this were just about any man on the street who suffers from stress that he decided to rob a corner store, you think he will come off easily with not even a criminal record?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually it has been verified Sven suffers from bipolar disorder. While that does not exclude him from responsibility of criminal activity, it can partly explain his actions. And if you weigh this one mistake against all the good this man has done for human rights in this country, it would be a unfair judgement.

[betsy]

Actually it has been verified Sven suffers from bipolar disorder. While that does not exclude him from responsibility of criminal activity, it can partly explain his actions. And if you weigh this one mistake against all the good this man has done for human rights in this country, it would be a unfair judgement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But you see, where do we draw the line if we weigh criminal acts against what a man had done?

If he is indeed suffering from this dis-order, then he should opt not to run for office.

If he has bipolar dis-order and therefore he could not help himself, how can I trust him with tax-payers' money? After all, this is all about trust.

We had seen the Liberal justifying acts of de-frauding the nation (all the way from Chretien)...that is why the polls indicate people want a change of government.

With NDP accepting Sven to run under NDP, it's blatant acceptance that justifying a wrong is okay. So...I guess there's a good chance that with the NDP, it's going to be the same-old, same-old!

[Rovik]

It was the courts that sentenced Robinson, not the NDP. If you want to blame anyone it would be the courts. Even in the states, where the last I checked had a right wing leaning government, you'll hear of people get a slap on the wrist for serious crimes especially rich people who can afford the high powered attorneys.

The NDP could have prevented Robinson from running but they had to consider that Robinson did pay for the crime (no matter how lightly the penalty may or may not have been) and they had to put in consideration that he won the nomination for his district, and if they stopped him, they would have been seen as heavy-handed, interfering in the local constituency and would risk alienating some of their long-time supporters who support Robinson.

Let's face it, the Conservatives, if they wanted to appear more mainstream could try to force out some of their members who are further right-wing then most, especially the more religious ones that the Liberals always love to bring up but the Conservatives won't because it would alienate that sector of their support.

For all Layton's talk about the so-called two-tiered system in the healthcare policy (which actually does not interpret that way when I listened to what Harper said)

Well it's only natural that Harper would put a spin on it.

[Argus]

Sven Robinson confessed to theft ($35,000.? worth), and his way of justifying that?

Stress.  Tremendous stress!

Tell that to practically everyone, especially those living in poverty, juggling children and a low-paying or non-existent job, single parents, etc..,  And here is this "charmed" guy (from the perspective of practically everyone suffering from the conditions above), who had the nerve to run again.

It's easy to get cynical about the justice system when all he got was a slap in the wrist, with no criminal conviction (to keep the coast clear for him to get back into politics, no doubt). 

If this were just about any man on the street who suffers from stress that he decided to rob a corner store, you think he will come off easily with not even a criminal record?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually it has been verified Sven suffers from bipolar disorder.

Verified by whom? No mention of any sort of disorder was even hinted at prior to him stealing that ring. Suddenly the trot out this extremely mild "condition" he suffers from, which apparently renders him fully capable in all respects, of being a member of parliament, just so long as he stays away from expensive jewellery.

[Argus]

It was the courts that sentenced Robinson, not the NDP.  If you want to blame anyone it would be the courts. 

Would these be the same idiot courts which sentenced Coffin to giving a lecture tour on ethics? No problem. I blame our moronic, imbecil judges quite frequently. Anyone want a judge's job? No brains necessary, just loyalty to the party.

Let's face it, the Conservatives, if they wanted to appear more mainstream could try to force out some of their members who are further right-wing then most, especially the more religious ones that the Liberals always love to bring up but the Conservatives won't because it would alienate that sector of their support.

I suppose. And if the NDP wanted to appear more mainstream they could try to force out some of their members who are further left-wing than most, especially the Marxists and Communists.

[Canuck E Stan]

I suppose. And if the NDP wanted to appear more mainstream they could try to force out some of their members who are further left-wing than most, especially the Marxists and Communists.

What about former Manitoba Premier and Canadian Governor General Ed Schreyer. His views(right wing?) on SSM go against the grain of NDP thought.

If he was in Parliament during the SSM vote he would have been booted from the party just as Desjarlais was in rejecting the party line.

Now that issue has not become important to Layton.

Or how about his ranting at Klien just last week,about healthcare(again) telling him to butt out.

Always Alberta, but not a word towards BC's Campbell and Quebec's Charest ,where there is far more private healthcare than in Alberta, and a better chance of more votes.

The party is after votes and their principles don't count when getting votes come into play.

[betsy]

It was the courts that sentenced Robinson, not the NDP.  If you want to blame anyone it would be the courts.  Even in the states, where the last I checked had a right wing leaning government, you'll hear of people get a slap on the wrist for serious crimes especially rich people who can afford the high powered attorneys.

The NDP could have prevented Robinson from running but they had to consider that Robinson did pay for the crime (no matter how lightly the penalty may or may not have been) and they had to put in consideration that he won the nomination for his district, and if they stopped him, they would have been seen as heavy-handed, interfering in the local constituency and would risk alienating some of their long-time supporters who support Robinson.

Let's face it, the Conservatives, if they wanted to appear more mainstream could try to force out some of their members who are further right-wing then most, especially the more religious ones that the Liberals always love to bring up but the Conservatives won't because it would alienate that sector of their support.

For all Layton's talk about the so-called two-tiered system in the healthcare policy (which actually does not interpret that way when I listened to what Harper said)

Well it's only natural that Harper would put a spin on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've got a point that it was the courts who sentenced Sven, but still....when we talk of integrity...and integrity is one of the biggest issue here, since Layton was really laying it on Martin about the Liberals acts of theft, his outraged accusation somewhat rings hollow.

I think we cannot really compare being "right-wing" or religious to theft.

There is a big difference between beliefs/opinion and a criminal act.

Well, if we base our opinion on what we want to believe or what we want to be true, it only follows I therefore can safely assume that it's only natural for all the other candidates to put a spin on what they say.

[Rovik]

I suppose. And if the NDP wanted to appear more mainstream they could try to force out some of their members who are further left-wing than most, especially the Marxists and Communists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could also say the if the CPC wanted to appear more mainstream, they could try to froce out some of their members who are further right-wing than most, especially the Fascists and the Neo-Cons.

[Rovik]

What about  former Manitoba Premier and Canadian Governor General Ed Schreyer. His views(right wing?) on SSM go against the grain of  NDP thought.

If he was in Parliament during the SSM vote he would have been booted from the party just as Desjarlais was in rejecting the party line.

Now that issue has not become important to Layton.

Or how about his ranting at Klien just last week,about healthcare(again) telling him to butt out.

Always Alberta, but not a word towards BC's Campbell and Quebec's Charest ,where there is far more private healthcare than in Alberta, and a better chance of more votes.

The party is after votes and their principles don't count when getting votes  come into play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Scheyer considers this a moot point because SSM is now the law.

Layton has indeed mentioned Campbell and Charest as against Medicare, here is a quote from a speech he did.

"But Canadians can see that Liberals and Conservatives, both federally and provincially, are taking us to a very different place. Make no mistake about it. Medicare is being sabotaged by people who claim to be protecting it. Paul Martin, Ralph Klein, Stephen Harper, Jean Charest and Gordon Campbell are all on the same wavelength."

Here is the link to the full speech.

Link

[Argus]

I suppose. And if the NDP wanted to appear more mainstream they could try to force out some of their members who are further left-wing than most, especially the Marxists and Communists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could also say the if the CPC wanted to appear more mainstream, they could try to froce out some of their members who are further right-wing than most, especially the Fascists and the Neo-Cons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could, but a neo-con is hardly an extremist, and fascists are already forced out the instant they're found.

Wheras socialists, marxists and communists are made to feel quite at home in the NDP. And there would be outrage if you suggested at a party gathering that anyone who was an open Marxist should be booted out.

[Rovik]

I think we cannot really compare being "right-wing" or religious to theft. 

There is a big difference between beliefs/opinion and a criminal act.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, you can't perpetually punish someone if they paid for their crimes. People do make mistakes, we're not perfect. It would be different if he commits the crime again and it would be different if he murdered someone. Even Mr. Harper never kicked out Mr. Grewel, though he never broke the law, committed an act that most of us would consider wrong.

And the point of my previous post was not to compare "right wing" or religious belief to a petty crime but to explain the situation the NDP was in and why they couldn't just block Robinson from running.

[Rovik]

[ And there would be outrage if you suggested at a party gathering that anyone who was an open Marxist should be booted out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps thay might even tell the open Marxist to join the Marxist Party of Canada. That would be the best place for that person to go.

[mowich]

I suppose. And if the NDP wanted to appear more mainstream they could try to force out some of their members who are further left-wing than most, especially the Marxists and Communists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could also say the if the CPC wanted to appear more mainstream, they could try to froce out some of their members who are further right-wing than most, especially the Fascists and the Neo-Cons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:angry: Name me just one Rovik, just one. Come on take your pick give me the name of a "Fascist" in the Conservative party and I will personally make it my new mission in life to hunt him/her down and find out about their fascist beliefs. What the hell is a "Neo-Con?"

[Rovik]

[quote name=mowich' date='Dec 30 2005, 09:07 PM

Name me just one Rovik, just one. Come on take your pick give me the name of a "Fascist" in the Conservative party and I will personally make it my new mission in life to hunt him/her down and find out about their fascist beliefs. What the hell is a "Neo-Con?"

[/quote]

Well, I'm sure high level Conservative fascists wouldn't admit to it and for me to name any names would only be conjecture. Of course, I'm sure if there were any high level Marxist NDPs, (if there is such a beast) they wouldn't admit to being Marxist.

Can you name any Marxists who are in a high-level position in the NDP and if you can, can you provide proof on such an accusation.

Here is a link to Neoconservatism in Canada, not as scary as the Neo-Con Americans but still troubling.

Link

[Wilber]

What boggles my mind is that the people of Vancouver Center are probably going to elect either "I did it cause I'm crazy" Sven or "they're burning crosses as we speak" Hedy.

How depressing