The Dylan Mulvaney Effect

[betsy]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Consistency isn't a strawman argument.
2. Versus you openly engaging in bad faith discussion.
3. "You argue like my ex-wife" is a weird position, and you constantly take it.  Nobody gives a toss about her, fyi.
4. This is the most elaborately constructed backpedal I have ever seen.   You didn't "elude [sic]" a thing, you posted a straight up statement of your position. 

Your ex- got you so sick of apologizing that you now refuse to do it even when you are wrong.  I regularly apologize when I'm wrong because my ego is subordinate to doing what's right according to principles.  When you finally grow some principles, you might be considered a conservative.  

Have a day... nice or not...

 

It wasn't a strawman argument since you're talking about two separate issues that are nowhere related. 

 

I've asked you:  who among environmentalists are walking the talk?  At least, he's vocalised and admits to what mostly - if not all , environmentalists are doing or gonna do.   But he's more passionately committed  about what directly affects children!

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy

[betsy]

14 hours ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Who is we guys? What form of "lashback" should we expect? What if we tell you to go f*ck yourself and leave people who are different than you alone and go live your own life without the prejudice and hatred? Would you go home, get your AR15, and show me exactly how upset you are?

If you want to live a shallow, meaningless, purposeless life, fine by me. I will NOT plunge my nose into Rightwing media just so I can get triggered. I will love everyone as they are. I will be the best I can and set an example. I raised my kids to be tolerant and accepting, not suspicious and close-minded. 

So you might as well grab your firearms, because guess what? The world around you is changing. The younger generation has NO use for your bigotry. Just like my generation had no use for my parent's generation's bigotry. 

Your world is shrinking, getting smaller, and the smaller it gets, the angrier you will get. The ONLY one hurting from your attitude is yourself. Deal with it. 

 

 

Lol - you're so missing the point.  The irony!

LGBTQ has already won what they want with same-sex marriage and being accepted/tolerated by society...............but still, don't know enough when to quit and shut up.

 

 

As anti-LGBTQ2 hate grows in Canada, advocates say it’s ‘never been as scary’

Canadian LGBTQ2 community members and advocates say the past year has been difficult and scary amid a notable rise in hate crimes, threats and protests against drag queens and transgender people in particular.

Hate has been rising in Canada too. Police-reported hate crimes based on sexual orientation rose nearly 60 per cent between 2019 and 2021 to the highest level in five years, Statistics Canada reported last month.

“We’re seeing a revival of the anti-gay hysteria from the 1970s,” she said.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9393280/canada-lgbtq-hate-trans-west-block/

 

“More anti-LGBT+ demonstration events have already been recorded in Canada so far this year than in all of 2021 and 2023 is on track to exceed 2022.”

Canadian Anti-Hate Network executive director Evan Balgord says Canada is seeing the protests happening right across the country with multiple events happening every week.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9542496/anti-lgbtq2-protests-rise-canada-explainer/

 

 

And.....don't ever imagine that those who aren't protesting are necessarily on LGBTQ's side!

 

 

 

You guys are digging up and bringing out the  "bigotry" in people......................... right into the open.

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy

[betsy]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:12 PM, Perspektiv said:

Am sure most of you know this controversial trans figure.

She is behind the multi billion dollar fiasco with Anheuser Busch.

Her crime? Accepting to promote a beer, when the culture wars currently ongoing were a tinderbox looking for a scapegoat to feel its wrath.

Worth the backlash that she got? Thats debatable, as is the backlash received by Bud Light beer.

But this seems to be the Dylan Mullaney effect.

The trans movement is a powder keg, where vitriol can be found deeply rooted at both ends of the culture war.

Should business separate themselves from politics?

Should they stand by their alignment backlash or not?

It just seems we have just learned a whole lot of what not to do.

 

 

 

Anti-LGBTQ Backlash Puts a Chill on Corporate America’s Rhetoric

 

(Bloomberg) -- Anti-LGBTQ protests targeting brands like Target Corp. and Bud Light have cast a broader chill across corporate America. For the first time in years, company mentions of “Pride Month” and other LGBTQ terms were on the decline in regulatory filings and earnings calls, a Bloomberg News analysis found.  

References to “Pride Month” in filings, presentations and transcripts from April to June at more than 900 of the largest US companies dropped almost 40% from this time last year, the first decline in five years. Other LGBTQ terms showed similar declines, the analysis found.

 

“We’re in a toxic stew of a backlash against LGBTQ people, primarily trans people,” said Bob Witeck, a consultant who helps companies such as Walmart Inc. and Marriott International Inc. craft LGBTQ-friendly policies.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/anti-lgbtq-backlash-puts-a-chill-on-corporate-america-s-rhetoric/ar-AA1dcHEG

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy

[betsy]

 

 

Take a backseat, women.  You're not the "darling" of society anymore.

 

It gets livelier. I'm curious where FEMINISTS stand on this.

 

 

Protesters storm McGill University talk on sex vs. gender, shutting it down

 

Advocates say debating trans women's rights is harmful to all women

 

Trans rights advocates stormed into a talk Tuesday afternoon at McGill University led by a speaker associated with a group they say is "notoriously transphobic and trans-exclusionary."

 

The CHRLP's website describes the event as a conversation around whether the law should make it easier for a transgender person to change their legal sex, "and about exceptional situations, such as women-only spaces and sports, in which the individual's birth sex should take priority over their gender identity, regardless of their legal sex."

 

He says he has a 37 years experience defending LGB human rights and he would never associate with any group that "promotes hate." He said he came to McGill to promote the message that women have human rights too, but they feel intimidated by the trans rights movement.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mcgill-backlash-anti-trans-talk-1.6708251

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy

[betsy]

And there's conflict brewing  within the LGBTQ community!

 

Why Are Some Feminists In The UK Freaking Out About Trans Rights?

 

The protesters who hijacked and led the London Pride parade over the weekend represent a worrying trend of anti-trans feminism in the UK.

Waving signs saying things like “Transactivists Erase Lesbians,” the protesters shouted slogans targeting trans women and highlighting the hashtag “#GetTheLOut of Pride” as they led the parade down its route to Trafalgar Square. One of the protesters shouted, “A man who says he’s a lesbian is a rapist,” according to Gay Star News. The group also distributed leaflets that accused trans activism of “coercing lesbians to have sex with men.” Pride in London staff and volunteers, as well as police officers, appeared to do nothing to intervene — though live video released by Pink News showed Pride in London staff working to prevent journalists from filming the protesters.

 

This latest stunt at London Pride comes as anti-trans bigotry in the UK has reached a fever pitch. Both left-wing and tabloid media have flooded the country with constant attacks on transgender youth. Earlier this year, BuzzFeed News reported that BBC staffers were sending each other anti-trans messages in private group chats.

 

So why is the UK losing its mind over trans people? Anti-trans feminists, accusing trans women of invading women’s spaces, and anti-trans lesbians, angered at trans women being welcomed into the lesbian community, have been whipped up into a fury by proposed changes to trans rights legislation in Britain.

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/morganmpage/why-are-some-feminists-in-the-uk-freaking-out-about-trans

[betsy]

23 hours ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Sounds like you don't have a clue. 

You don't.

 

Trans aren't just stepping on WOMEN.............

It's gonna get ugly.

 

 

 

LGBTQIA: I want a divorce. Many lesbians, gays and bisexuals are no longer considering themselves to be a part of the LGBTQIA community and are starting to voice opposition to the movement entirely. The reason? They feel that the LGBs have one agenda that completely contradicts the agenda of the TQIA community.

 

 

 

Read the comments at the bottom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy

[betsy]

Based on all those  given above - I can see why businesses will want to distance themselves from all these. 

 

  It's shaping up to be a freakin' free-for-all brawl! ?

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy

[SNOWFLAKE]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

You guys are digging up and bringing out the  "bigotry" in people......................... right into the open.

Get a life. Seriously.

[SNOWFLAKE]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

You don't.

 

Trans aren't just stepping on WOMEN.............

It's gonna get ugly.

 

 

 

LGBTQIA: I want a divorce. Many lesbians, gays and bisexuals are no longer considering themselves to be a part of the LGBTQIA community and are starting to voice opposition to the movement entirely. The reason? They feel that the LGBs have one agenda that completely contradicts the agenda of the TQIA community.

 

 

 

Read the comments at the bottom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YOUTUBE is your argument? F*ck! Read a book. Take a sociology class. Mingle with people who are different than you. Get out and get some fresh air. Go for a walk. Volunteer somewhere. Lose weight. Stop smoking and drinking. Stop hanging out with other white trash. You will feel better about yourself. I guarantee. 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

YOUTUBE is your argument? F*ck! Read a book. Take a sociology class. Mingle with people who are different than you. Get out and get some fresh air. Go for a walk. Volunteer somewhere. Lose weight. Stop smoking and drinking. Stop hanging out with other white trash. You will feel better about yourself. I guarantee. 

 

You can bury your head in a book all you want.

This is reality.

[SNOWFLAKE]

54 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

You can bury your head in a book all you want.

This is reality.

Living an angry and frustrated life because of your own failings is NOT reality. 

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Read a book.

Many books denounce the current woke movement. The cost of businesses turning to virtue signaling, vs sticking to business and being pillars in their communities. Division, vs unity.

2 hours ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Take a sociology class.

Why waste money on a class, when you could read dozens of books on the subject?

2 hours ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Get out and get some fresh air.

Now, we are talking. 

I walk downtown in my city and see where virtue signaling leads you. 

Homelessness has exploded. More police calls than ever, on violent crimes. Thefts forcing businesses to invest heavily on security. 

I deal with a lot of property owners through my business, and the common gripe in that area now, is one highly profitable properties are no longer sellable. 

Very hard to sell a 1.5 million dollar triplex, when you have crackheads s******g on your lawn, and leaving needles behind. 

Telling people they can be whatever gender they want sounds good in theory, until you get a female inmate getting raped by a male turned to female inmate bunking in the same cell. 

A male could be a bottom dwelling male athlete, and 2 years post transitioning, shattering records among women.

It also ignores the why some businesses virtue signal so aggressively now. 

Many invest, and these corporations pulling the strings, want to expunge themselves of white guilt, so put up virtue signaling quotas or risk being black listed. But this is done by choice, right?

2 hours ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Lose weight

I don't understand how having standards make you fat.

 

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

I want a divorce

As an asexual, I know am part of the alphabet mafia, but refuse to associate myself with it. 

I used to post on asexual message boards, as people there were welcoming to all. This is how you grow a movement and gain acceptance. I no longer had to feel shame for being this way.

I saw a very sharp shift in the rhetoric as soon as the trans community started to bogart the entire movement.

I became lost in a sea of division, anger and just wanting nothing to do with it. 

The end of my rope was when I was asked if I would date a trans woman.

I was honest. I said no.

I quickly realized that to continue being in this community, I had to speak in talking points, and agree with the ideologies they were now pushing in full. 

Yeah, no thanks. 

Society isn't saying they hate trans people. 

They are saying there is a difference between a trans and biological woman and male.

People who side with logic will never bend to this.

So killing off logic, and gaslighting will just get you further divided and hate.

[SNOWFLAKE]

15 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't understand how having standards make you fat.

OH JAYSUS!!!

I know sometimes, when I browse through different debate forums, I have to be MORE pronounced in what I am saying because often what the "meaning" of what I am saying goes right over everyone's head. 

Either that, or you were making a strawman argument, disingenuously suggesting that I SAID having standards make you fat, when I clearly implied, NOT having standards (as in betsy) makes you fat. I also implied, sitting around all day listening to Rightwing news, getting riled up about "others" because you don't have a life yourself, or having poor habits (like getting fat) is something you should own and improve on. 

On the other hand, betsy does have standards. I will admit I can see she has standards. Now I wonder if you are intuitive enough to read what I mean by that. 

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

"meaning" of what I am saying goes right over everyone's head.

Replace "meaning" with "logic", and I am in agreement.

1 hour ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

getting riled up about "others"

Sorry, but for someone who follows left and right news, far left or far right are as toxic as each other.

CNN will rile you up, based on victim status. Fox will rile you up based on getting white people scared of anything a shade darker than they are.

Both will get you angry. Its on purpose. You get upset. You click. You watch. 

To ignore either are as bad as the other tells me you're not as balanced as you state you are. Worse even, you are blind to your bias.

My sister is as far left as they come. We get along just fine, even politically. My staff is as far left as you can get.

We both value logic. Common sense. 

Value both, and I don’t see how one party can't get along with the other.

If you talk about opponents like they are beneath you, you are part of the problem.

[Michael Hardner]

"Left" doesn't mean "complies with the latest morality on identity politics"

That's a fallacy.

[betsy]

Btw........did any political figure (Trudeau and other premiers) attend  Pride Parade 2023?

 

Seems quiet - whereas they used to announce if such and such is going to attend.  Just curious.

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, betsy said:

Btw........did any political figure (Trudeau and other premiers) attend  Pride Parade 2023?

 

Seems quiet - whereas they used to announce if such and such is going to attend.  Just curious.

https://www.cp24.com/news/doug-ford-will-attend-york-pride-parade-amid-flag-controversy-1.6421353?cache=yesclipId10406200text%2Fhtml%3Bcharset%3Dutf-80404%2F7.314145%2F7.314145%2F7.314145%2F7.632073%2F7.282232%2F7.282232

Doug Ford

[SNOWFLAKE]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Replace "meaning" with "logic", and I am in agreement.

Sorry, but for someone who follows left and right news, far left or far right are as toxic as each other.

CNN will rile you up, based on victim status. Fox will rile you up based on getting white people scared of anything a shade darker than they are.

Both will get you angry. Its on purpose. You get upset. You click. You watch. 

To ignore either are as bad as the other tells me you're not as balanced as you state you are. Worse even, you are blind to your bias.

My sister is as far left as they come. We get along just fine, even politically. My staff is as far left as you can get.

We both value logic. Common sense. 

Value both, and I don’t see how one party can't get along with the other.

If you talk about opponents like they are beneath you, you are part of the problem.

OH GEEZE!!! CNN is biased, but hasn't been sued for OUTRIGHT LYING to their viewers. Big diff. As for opponents being beneath me, my attacks have been and will continue to be on bigots, right wingers, Trumpers, and those who would deny a woman her rights to make her own health choices.

 

I have posted this before, maybe you missed it. Where I live in Ontario, I voted Conservative. Let me repeat that - I voted Conservative. You see, I disagree with a lot of what the Conservatives stand for (fighting with nurses and teachers), but they did an EXCELLENT job under Doug Ford fighting the pandemic (unlike the American right who kept bleating about vaccines that don't work or about shut downs), they aren't interested in doing away with our universal health care, nor taking away a woman's abortion rights. Ford didn't outlaw any Pride parades.  Big diff again.

Sorry, your attempt at "equivalency" - while laudable - is turning a blind eye to how extreme the Right (and many Republicans) have become. You read the commentaries by Righties on forums like this and it is a steady stream of defending Trump, hating on LGBTQ, believing stolen election lies and conspiracy theories, and mimicking Fox.

Bias is one thing, total idiocy is another. Righties are total idi*ts. Complete m*rons. Sc*m of the Earth. Contemptable. Don't even try to compare them to legitimate Conservatives. Not even close. 

Example: Conservatives used to be ALL ABOUT defending big business. Of getting govt out of controlling big business. Of free enterprise. NOW - they attack Disney, Bud Light, and a host of other businesses because they support Pride? Give me a break! End of story. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by SNOWFLAKE

[Perspektiv]

16 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

but hasn't been sued for OUTRIGHT LYING to their viewers. 

Lying outright and lying by omission is still lying. 

If CNN runs a story deliberately ommitting key information in order to stay on course with their agenda, only changing course when trolled and pressured for it, sure they won't get sued for it, but were still lying to the consumer.

Neither stations can call themselves news, and both are guilty for sentionalizing stories to get clicks. 

17 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

right wingers

That's a very broad brush. 

I thought you said you were open minded.

18 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

and those who would deny a woman her rights to make her own health choices.

You're essentially arguing against MAGA conservatives. Not all conservatives stand for those policies. In fact, most are sick of them.

19 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

unlike the American right

Again, broad brush. You need to travel more. 

20 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

have become

Both the far left and right have become extreme. I am not denying either of it.

But to me, telling me a trans woman is no different than a biological woman,  is lunacy. 

That there are thousands of genders, nobody knows how many, but that misgendering is bigoted. 

That society has to be overhauled from top to bottom, with or without violence to bring forth equality. Essentially, taking from those who somehow are privileged and spreading it to those who aren't. 

These are insane ideas, when factoring the human nature of selfishness. That, or good luck forcing people to comply.

23 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

hating on LGBTQ

I don't hate on LGBTQ. Am part of the A in the alphabet mafia. 

I don't agree with some of their movements. 

Many within the trans community don't agree with how far they have taken things.

25 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

total idiocy

Both extremes are guilty of this. Which is why I roll my eyes at either, and find myself struggling to find a political party.

26 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

NOW

You are literally angry at MAGA conservatives. People who saw the effect Trump had, and using his playbook to gain. 

The "vote for me or you will die" playbook.

Populism is nothing new, and the left just like the right are guilty of it.

[SNOWFLAKE]

15 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Lying outright and lying by omission is still lying. 

If CNN runs a story deliberately ommitting key information in order to stay on course with their agenda, only changing course when trolled and pressured for it, sure they won't get sued for it, but were still lying to the consumer.

Neither stations can call themselves news, and both are guilty for sentionalizing stories to get clicks. 

That's a very broad brush. 

I thought you said you were open minded.

You're essentially arguing against MAGA conservatives. Not all conservatives stand for those policies. In fact, most are sick of them.

Again, broad brush. You need to travel more. 

Both the far left and right have become extreme. I am not denying either of it.

But to me, telling me a trans woman is no different than a biological woman,  is lunacy. 

That there are thousands of genders, nobody knows how many, but that misgendering is bigoted. 

That society has to be overhauled from top to bottom, with or without violence to bring forth equality. Essentially, taking from those who somehow are privileged and spreading it to those who aren't. 

These are insane ideas, when factoring the human nature of selfishness. That, or good luck forcing people to comply.

I don't hate on LGBTQ. Am part of the A in the alphabet mafia. 

I don't agree with some of their movements. 

Many within the trans community don't agree with how far they have taken things.

Both extremes are guilty of this. Which is why I roll my eyes at either, and find myself struggling to find a political party.

You are literally angry at MAGA conservatives. People who saw the effect Trump had, and using his playbook to gain. 

The "vote for me or you will die" playbook.

Populism is nothing new, and the left just like the right are guilty of it.

Ok, you go ahead and pat yourself on the back for being big enough to blame both sides for the loss of civil discourse in the U.S. Maybe you trying to keep it civil here for the sake of engagement. I am only here for the entertainment value, I use other forums for serious debate since none can be had here.

Get back to me when the Left refuse to accept election results, storm Capitols, threaten violence when their candidate is charged with a crime, when they attack a woman's rights, when they start believing everything is a George Soros conspiracy and when they start voting for the likes MTG and Boebert. 

Till then, we both have had our say, I know where you stand, you know where I stand. NO need to beat a dead horse. 

[Perspektiv]

13 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Get back to me when the Left refuse to accept election results

Only Donald Trump has. Most within his own base despise him. Some within his circle, but nobody has the intestinal fortitude to confront him. 

This doesn't speak to any other conservative leaders before him. Before him, politicians tended to follow a form of decorum, he literally tore up and s*****ed on. 

A lot of what he has done is deeply criminal, and unprecedented, but doesn't represent true conservative ideals. You know it as well as I do.

Even Fox News has distanced themselves from him.

That is how far down he has fallen.

15 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Till then

You are literally serving me extreme right issues. MAGA conservative issues. The extreme left isn't much better. 

You can't point any rational person to wanting to follow either extreme.

[SNOWFLAKE]

53 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Only Donald Trump has. Most within his own base despise him. Some within his circle, but nobody has the intestinal fortitude to confront him. 

This doesn't speak to any other conservative leaders before him. Before him, politicians tended to follow a form of decorum, he literally tore up and s*****ed on. 

A lot of what he has done is deeply criminal, and unprecedented, but doesn't represent true conservative ideals. You know it as well as I do.

Even Fox News has distanced themselves from him.

That is how far down he has fallen.

You are literally serving me extreme right issues. MAGA conservative issues. The extreme left isn't much better. 

You can't point any rational person to wanting to follow either extreme.

Why would I continue to debate you? JAYSUS!! I even admitted to voting for a Conservative. If you haven't understood me by now, then you never will. My attacks are against the Rightwing. And yet, you STILL are trying to find an equivalency?? I repeat: LET ME KNOW WHEN LEFTIES STORM A CAPITOL over rigged election conspiracies. Until then, your "equivalency" schtick is not something I am interested in engaging. 

[Perspektiv]

4 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Rightwing

That's an umbrella term. Am considered right winged, and strongly believe in a woman's choice regarding abortion. My wife is more right winged than me.

Being right winged or left winged isn't inherently a bad thing. You should be debated based on the principles you believe in. Dismissing being right winged, is like me dismissing all women as being crazy. Essentially, where talking to them is a waste of time. Black people as lazy. Its essentially what you're doing. Only that your form of prejudice has become acceptable.

What I am pointing out, is your hatred of an entire group of people, that goes against the love for everyone that you were pushing earlier.

I also believe in LGBTQ rights, and am against a lot of the right winged nonsense you mentioned under those terms.

Kind of like Trudeau, the "Alt Right" is a term coined to dismiss opinions that differ from one's own. He talked about the trucked convoy under those terms, and pointed to a nazi and confederate flag, to paint the entire group with the same brush, effortlessly dismissing their voice.

This is precisely what is wrong with politics today. Leaders prefer to divide, and conquer vs lead and serve.

You literally have no reason to be hateful to others who are just existing, which is a point of yours I am in full agreement on. 

9 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

LET ME KNOW WHEN LEFTIES STORM A CAPITOL

This is a ridiculous point, as it isn't the right you are eluding to, but a group of Trump supporters. The lowest IQ inbreeding ones, no less.

The right is a massive group globally, and an umbrella term you can't sweep everyone under. It makes you sound uneducated.

Just like I can't sweep every leftist under antifa and Just Oil, as most with common sense, believe that destruction of property isn't how you get stuff done. Point am making, is done label an entire political movement by its extremists.

What you're dismissing is an entire political ideology, that isn't only found in the US, with the same brush. 

I don't know a single right winged or conservative Canadian, that didn't scoff at the woman who was shot and killed at the Capitol.

Heck, I remember watching the news, thinking: "you just died for this....you f****ing i*iot!...the award moment when her family finds out Trump didn't give a s*** about her"

Worse even, he threw her under the bus.

Labeling a conservative (or eluding to) any true conservative as being remotely like the MAGA type (this includes the right), is no different than Hillary Clinton calling the entire group deplorables.

Issue with the stance, is a large percentage of these people live in rural areas, and work blue collar jobs. Alienating them, isn't a good political gamble.

[betsy]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://www.cp24.com/news/doug-ford-will-attend-york-pride-parade-amid-flag-controversy-1.6421353?cache=yesclipId10406200text%2Fhtml%3Bcharset%3Dutf-80404%2F7.314145%2F7.314145%2F7.314145%2F7.632073%2F7.282232%2F7.282232

Doug Ford

 

Freeland too apparently.  And, Singh.

Edited July 13, 2023 by betsy