Harper offers to stand in for Martin, take on Bloc

[Kiraly]

Harper offering to stand in for Martin, take on Bloc in Quebec-only debate

I guess Harper is going "all in".

Risky move. Duceppe is an exceptional debater and Harper's French is less than ideal in such a situation.

However, if he could do well in such a debate, he could score alot of points.

[Riverwind]

Risky move. Duceppe is an exceptional debater and Harper's French is less than ideal in such a situation.

No gain without risk - an excellent move for Harper. Even if Duceppe talks circles around him, his French should be good enough to make enough points that will demonstrate to Quebequers that there is more to Canada than the Liberal party.

[lovecanada]

Risky move. Duceppe is an exceptional debater and Harper's French is less than ideal in such a situation.

No gain without risk - an excellent move for Harper. Even if Duceppe talks circles around him, his French should be good enough to make enough points that will demonstrate to Quebequers that there is more to Canada than the Liberal party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love this move, what does Stephen have to lose? Votes in Quebec, or Ontario voters standing up and taking notice? Is a win win situation for Harper!

[Riverwind]

I love this move, what does Stephen have to lose? Votes in Quebec, or Ontario voters standing up and taking notice? Is a win win situation for Harper!

This is one situation where Harper's cool demeanor which garners much criticism in the English media will be an asset - stick to his message and don't let himself be baited and he will do fine.

[August1991]

From what I can see, this has just made into the French press:

Le réseau TQS a invité Paul Martin et Gilles Duceppe à débattre à son antenne : le premier ministre libéral a fait savoir mardi soir qu'il n'en était pas question, mais le chef conservateur Stephen Harper s'est dit prêt à relever le défi face à son adversaire bloquiste, a appris la Presse Canadienne mardi soir.

Les dirigeants du réseau ont fait parvenir une invitation aux chefs du Parti libéral du Canada (PLC) et du Bloc québécois pour qu'ils participent à un face-à-face à son antenne. De passage aux Escoumins, mardi, Gilles Duceppe a accepté l'invitation. Mais un porte-parole libéral, Marc Roy, a indiqué mardi que le parti avait envoyé une lettre au réseau de télévision pour annoncer que Paul Martin ne pourrait pas accepter l'invitation.

En soirée, M. Harper a fait savoir qu'il était prêt à participer à n'importe quel débat de ce genre.

Le Soleil

The idea is so bizarre (and why do I think that? - it's not bizarre at all) that I'm sure TQS will follow it up. Watch for Layton to insist that he wants to be present too. Now then, I'm not so sure the ratings will be much. Only several hundred thousand watched the first French debate.

Risky move. Duceppe is an exceptional debater and Harper's French is less than ideal in such a situation.

No, that's not the issue at all. Harper has no pretentions about his French. During the first French debate, several times he asked for questions to be repeated. This is seen well. His grammar is precise.

[Riverwind]

Only several hundred thousand watched the first French debate.

The debate itself may not have many viewers but the coverage in the press on the day after would reach many more people.

[Slavik44]

Good move on Harpers part even if duceppe does run circles around him and makes him look like a fool he will still come out the same as before, on the otherhand if he does a decent job he stands to gain the respect of voters across Canada. Seeing as how he is the un-know under dog if he manages to loose by less than 5,500 kilometers he comes out a winner. The question than would be wether or not the debate goes on or if the network is only interested in a Martin Duceppe battle.

As for Layton I am sure he probabley will offer to participate, I recall him challanging the leaders to a debate around last electiont ime or something if I recall correctly (Don't quote me on that). And He to as nothing to lose by offerign to debate duccepe, the NDP seem to be hitting some fairly low polling numbers as of late. So Layton will be out looking for a way to reverse his fourtunes while Harper will continue to try and find that magic somethign to boost his parties popularity.

[Leafless]

Kiraly

You wrote- " I guess Harper is going all in."

This move by Harper is indeed risky and foolish.

By being drawn into a debate by Duceppe in Quebec, Harper provides the prove that somehow the Bloc's movement is legitimate and for a federal leader of a national political party to debate this in Quebec could be seen as diluting or selling out federal authority concerning separation when there is in reality no obligation to do this by any federal representative of a federal national party.

Harper does not have to prove the legitimacy of a federal political party.

[Vancouver King]

From what I can see, this has just made into the French press:

Le réseau TQS a invité Paul Martin et Gilles Duceppe à débattre à son antenne : le premier ministre libéral a fait savoir mardi soir qu'il n'en était pas question, mais le chef conservateur Stephen Harper s'est dit prêt à relever le défi face à son adversaire bloquiste, a appris la Presse Canadienne mardi soir.

Les dirigeants du réseau ont fait parvenir une invitation aux chefs du Parti libéral du Canada (PLC) et du Bloc québécois pour qu'ils participent à un face-à-face à son antenne. De passage aux Escoumins, mardi, Gilles Duceppe a accepté l'invitation. Mais un porte-parole libéral, Marc Roy, a indiqué mardi que le parti avait envoyé une lettre au réseau de télévision pour annoncer que Paul Martin ne pourrait pas accepter l'invitation.

En soirée, M. Harper a fait savoir qu'il était prêt à participer à n'importe quel débat de ce genre.

Le Soleil

The idea is so bizarre (and why do I think that? - it's not bizarre at all) that I'm sure TQS will follow it up. Watch for Layton to insist that he wants to be present too. Now then, I'm not so sure the ratings will be much. Only several hundred thousand watched the first French debate.

Risky move. Duceppe is an exceptional debater and Harper's French is less than ideal in such a situation.

No, that's not the issue at all. Harper has no pretentions about his French. During the first French debate, several times he asked for questions to be repeated. This is seen well. His grammar is precise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is huge for Harper. The optics are positive, he can't lose by doing this. He might even be perceived as courageous outside of Quebec. Martin appears to be running from Duceppe and his desperation in Quebec is compounded by this analysis released today by Strategic Counsel for CTV and G&M:

"with the current numbers that they are polling in Quebec, the Liberals would be reduced to seven seats and this number would not include Mr. Martin's own seat. Right now, there's a risk that the PM might lose his own seat."

Unbelievable.

[lovecanada]

From what I can see, this has just made into the French press:

Le réseau TQS a invité Paul Martin et Gilles Duceppe à débattre à son antenne : le premier ministre libéral a fait savoir mardi soir qu'il n'en était pas question, mais le chef conservateur Stephen Harper s'est dit prêt à relever le défi face à son adversaire bloquiste, a appris la Presse Canadienne mardi soir.

Les dirigeants du réseau ont fait parvenir une invitation aux chefs du Parti libéral du Canada (PLC) et du Bloc québécois pour qu'ils participent à un face-à-face à son antenne. De passage aux Escoumins, mardi, Gilles Duceppe a accepté l'invitation. Mais un porte-parole libéral, Marc Roy, a indiqué mardi que le parti avait envoyé une lettre au réseau de télévision pour annoncer que Paul Martin ne pourrait pas accepter l'invitation.

En soirée, M. Harper a fait savoir qu'il était prêt à participer à n'importe quel débat de ce genre.

Le Soleil

The idea is so bizarre (and why do I think that? - it's not bizarre at all) that I'm sure TQS will follow it up. Watch for Layton to insist that he wants to be present too. Now then, I'm not so sure the ratings will be much. Only several hundred thousand watched the first French debate.

Risky move. Duceppe is an exceptional debater and Harper's French is less than ideal in such a situation.

No, that's not the issue at all. Harper has no pretentions about his French. During the first French debate, several times he asked for questions to be repeated. This is seen well. His grammar is precise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is huge for Harper. The optics are positive, he can't lose by doing this. He might even be perceived as courageous outside of Quebec. Martin appears to be running from Duceppe and his desperation in Quebec is compounded by this analysis released today by Strategic Counsel for CTV and G&M:

"with the current numbers that they are polling in Quebec, the Liberals would be reduced to seven seats and this number would not include Mr. Martin's own seat. Right now, there's a risk that the PM might lose his own seat."

Unbelievable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow wouldn't that be something! Harper can't lose in this debate, the ROC will see this in a very positive light!

[Vancouver King]

This is huge for Harper. The optics are positive, he can't lose by doing this. He might even be perceived as courageous outside of Quebec. Martin appears to be running from Duceppe and his desperation in Quebec is compounded by this analysis released today by Strategic Counsel for CTV and G&M:

"with the current numbers that they are polling in Quebec, the Liberals would be reduced to seven seats and this number would not include Mr. Martin's own seat. Right now, there's a risk that the PM might lose his own seat."

Unbelievable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow wouldn't that be something! Harper can't lose in this debate, the ROC will see this in a very positive light!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

_______________________________________________________

The Strategic Counsel numbers get more interesting. Outside Quebec, the CPC is tied with the Liberals at 37% each. If the Quebec numbers hold the Libs will be down 18 seats before the first vote is counted in Ontario. I smell debacle.

[err]

Considering that Harper wouldn't even shake Duceppe's hand at the second debate, this is rather interesting. I wonder if the stategy is to gain sympathy after Duceppe pummels him.....

[newbie]

Interesting proposal. He really has absolutely nothing to lose.

[Vancouver King]

Considering that Harper wouldn't even shake Duceppe's hand at the second debate, this is rather interesting.  I wonder if the stategy is to gain sympathy after Duceppe pummels him.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing I've read satisfactorily explains Harper's reasoning in not shaking hands.

The CPC strategy is already paying dividends. Consider: Let's say the debate never takes place. Harper is still seen as a courageous volunteer willing to enter the lions den while Martin is running scared from a one on one with Duceppe. These perceptions are already in the CPC bag.

[August1991]

Doesn't look like it will happen:

Mercredi, Gilles Duceppe s'est montré peu enclin à relever le défi.

«J'attendrai de voir si TQS m'offre une telle proposition, a-t-il déclaré aux journalistes. Je ne suis pas pour me lancer dans des hypothèses. S'il y a une offre de TQS, j'y répondrai.»

Quand on lui a demandé pourquoi il montrait moins d'empressement à débattre avec M. Harper qu'avec M. Martin, le chef du Bloc a souligné que c'est son homologue libéral qui l'avait piqué au vif.

...

Quoi qu'il en soit, le directeur de l'information de TQS, Bernard Brisset, a indiqué à La Presse Canadienne, mercredi, que le réseau n'était pas vraiment intéressé par un duel Duceppe-Harper.

La Presse

----

I think that the BQ would prefer a Liberal government in Ottawa. If Duceppe gave in to this debate, he knows it would raise Harper's profile in English-Canada and that's something he probably doesn't really want.

[legamus]

maybe we're reading too much into the no hand-shake thing?

[Kiraly]

Duceppe Declines Harper's Challenge

Well it would've been interesting.

I don't completely understand Duceppe's reasoning here. Did he not challenge Martin to a debate about federalism versus sovereignty?

[Biblio Bibuli]

The above says:

""" Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe has declined Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's challenge to debate him one on one in French.

Duceppe said Wednesday that since it is the Liberals who lack the moral authority to govern, there is no point having a debate without Liberal Leader Paul Martin.

"When we took the vote in the House, it was a motion of non-confidence against the Liberals because they didn't have the moral authority to govern," Duceppe said. "So having a debate without the party accused of not having moral authority to govern – I mean, this is no debate." """

STILL don't believe me when I tell ya'all that Tories wil win comfortably? Very comfortably?

[August1991]

I don't completely understand Duceppe's reasoning here. Did he not challenge Martin to a debate about federalism versus sovereignty? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Duceppe has nothing to gain from such a debate with Harper, except a small chance that Tory votes in Quebec might split some federalist ridings and giving the BQ a seat or two extra. No one in Quebec is really interested in seeing a debate between Duceppe and Harper. OTOH, such a debate would have raised Harper's profile in Ontario and I still think Duceppe and the BQ/PQ would prefer a federal Liberal government.

As to a debate with Martin, Duceppe wanted to ridicule Martin in French in Quebec. This is what French Quebecers wanted to see. Harper is an unknown in Quebec and I think they are behind the curve on this one - although I note that TQS was willing to put on a show.

Well it would've been interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I would really like to see two people such as Duceppe and Harper argue. Inevitably, this is the debate the country will see some day, although it may not be Harper who holds up the English side.

----

Harper should play this on both sides now. He'll argue that the Liberals want the PQ/BQ and the BQ/PQ wants the Liberals. What is the expression? They are two peas in a pod.

[Kiraly]

August,

I totally agree that Duceppe doesn't want to debate Harper as there is very little upside in doing so for him.

What I don't understand is why Duceppe gave those particular reasons for not doing the debate.

Did he not challenge Martin to a debate about federalism versus sovereignty? I'm not sure what moral authority to govern has at all to do with that particular debate.

When the PQ eventually come to power again, this debate will take place, whether the Prime Minister has the "moral authority" or not.

To me, Duceppe did not come out of this looking all that good...

...and I rarely have the opportunity to say that.

So how did the events of the past few days play out in Quebec? Are the comments from Dumont and Charest vis a vis Harper creating any interest with Quebecers?