Quebec, Canada & the Federal Liberals

[August1991]

I was driving in Montreal today - to be honest, I went to the Carrefour Angrignon, and got stuck in a traffic jam where I had to stare at Paul Martin signs (his riding is Ville Émard, or Ville-Lasalle.) In fact, I was driving in the west and had to stare at them all. Dion, Martin, Robillard.

I wondered. Does English-Canada (Ontario) understand that these people do not come from from French ridings? Do they understand that the federal Liberal Party does not represent French Quebec?

Does English Canada understand that the federal Liberal Party is like a White South African Party? It runs Black candidates in White ridings.

----

Chantal Hebert noted Martin's weakness in English:

Finally, if the Liberal leader is to make a strong impression in the French-language debate, Quebecers will have to be able to figure what he is taking about.

That has not always been the case when Martin is performing in French under pressure.

The journalists who travelled with his tour in the first week of the campaign still talk of Martin telling a Montreal audience that the Jan. 23 election was about choosing the leader best able to "lose" Canada.

At a news conference on the occasion of his visit to the United Nations climate change conference in Montreal last week, Martin launched into a confused and ultimately incoherent explanation of the relationship between the environment and the economy.

As of Wednesday, a team made up of Quebec lieutenant Jean Lapierre, his colleague Lucienne Robillard and senators Serge Joyal and Francis Fox will lock themselves up with Martin to try to cram enough French into his head to perform adequately in Thursday's debate.

Chantal Hébert

Then, Ezra Levant argued this:

Harper would have two advantages over any Liberal during a Quebec referendum. Before the referendum, he could truly advocate a decentralized Canada, the kind contemplated in the Constitution Act of 1867 where provinces had autonomy over issue such as health, education and welfare.

Quebec's natural resentment of Ottawa's constitutional intrusions are shared by Albertans, and Harper in particular. He could present a credible response to Quebec separatism, different from the usual Liberal recipe of bribes and threats.

Should Quebec decide in the end to secede -- which is not unthinkable, given polls -- Harper would be a more suitable representative of the "rest of Canada" in any post-referendum negotiations.

Not only would Martin, as a Quebec Liberal, be delegitimized in the eyes of Quebecers after a "yes" vote, but he would have no credibility or standing to negotiate on behalf of non-Quebecers. Harper would.

Harper would be more effective at persuading Quebecers to stay, because he'd be more amenable to respecting Quebec's jurisdiction.

Ezra Levant

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Jean Lapierre, Paul Martin and even Chantal Hébert and the Toronto Star are going to argue in favour of something called "Canada". Well, what is it?

While driving in Montreal today, looking at the cars and the houses, I thought about who benefits from this thing the Liberal Party calls "Canada".

Irwin Cotler, NDG, Marlene Jennings, TMR, Robillard. Martin, Dion, Coderre.

Is this "Canada"? Ridings in West/English Montreal with voters who choose Liberal Party candidates with French names because they are afraid to vote for anyone else?

How many ridings of Cabinet ministers did I just drive through? How do people in Saskatchewan or Brockville feel about this?

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By posting this, I am afraid that I will just encourage the belief that the Liberals represent all of Canada (English and French) whereas the Conservatives are narrow-minded and only speak for English-Canada.

Instead, I am trying to say that the federal Liberal Party speaks for no one any more. It does not speak for French Canada, and I suspect it no longer speaks for English Canada.

I honestly don't know who Jean Lapierre who speaks for - except maybe himself.

English Canada should take note of this.

[fellowtraveller]

Nope, I'm an English Canadian and I understand all too well what Paul Martin represents, and it isn't me. He has made that very very plain on many occasions.

Realistically, at this point it makes no difference if its Liberal or Consrvative is seen by the media or ROC as 'representing Canada', not enough Quebecois are listening and not enough Anglos in the ROC care deeply anymore.

When it comes to it, the only real chance to 'stop Quebec' will be at the next provincial election. Nobody in either Party will be dumb enough to make separation a keystone federal election issue.

[Bakunin]

I was driving in Montreal today - to be honest, I went to the Carrefour Angrignon, and got stuck in a traffic jam where I had to stare at Paul Martin signs (his riding is Ville Émard, or Ville-Lasalle.) In fact, I was driving in the west and had to stare at them all. Dion, Martin, Robillard.

I wondered. Does English-Canada (Ontario) understand that these people do not come from from French ridings? Do they understand that the federal Liberal Party does not represent French Quebec?

The funiest things is that the name "Liberal party of canada" is now absent on Liberal signs... I think this tell alot about the situation.

[Leafless]

August1991

You wrote- " Does English -Canada (Ontario) understand these people do not come from French ridings? Do they understand that the federal Liberal party does not represent French Quebec?

Since when is English Canada Ontario?

English Canada is the majority language of ALL provinces combined including Quebec, that is you do consider Quebec part of Canada-right?

The Liberal, Conservative, NDP and some other are national federal parties and the Liberals are a national party with a Quebec Wing that has catered specifically to Quebec and Quebec and has been supported by Quebecers since day one. It seems no national party can satisfy Quebec's outrageous demands as a partner in confederation.

But if you are saying Quebec should be off limits to national federal parties because you think Quebec is a country SAY IT.

[apollo19]

I think that the main reason people believe that the Liberals represent both English and French is that they want to believe in a Canada like that. A happy, united, merry Canada where everyone is happy and everyone gets along, like they "always have". This way, people can ignore the problems of constitutional debate and ignore people who honestly do not want to be a part of this country anymore. It seems we are stuck on a weird track in this country -- basically, nothing can happen to Quebec unless the PQ comes in, which would be in 2008. Now we have a federal election where the Liberals will lose seats in Quebec, and as a country, we are basically like a chicken running around without a head. People have become too accustomed to the status quo, and they think that is the Federal government's responsibility to fund things like Health Care and other provincial responsibilities -- someone needs to hold up the BNA Act and show everyone what this country was supposed to be like. But, I doubt anyone will do that -- so for now, enjoy the ride.

[Guest eureka]

Ezra Levant is an ignoramus, August. Someone who does not know waht the Constitution of 1867 was supposed to do should not be given credit for responsible political commentary.

The Liberal Party is the only party that represents Canada, too. It is the only party that wants a united nation and not a collection of autonomous regions.

The NDP actually thinks it wants that but its Quebec policy is no better than the Conservatives. That is why, though I will endeavour to ensure the voctory of the NDP in my riding, I want them to have no more than a bare balance with a Liberal minority.

For the rest, I am beginning to think I do not care any more. The country is riding the proverbial handbasket: it is riding in one because so many posters here are representative of so many Canadians who are equally ignorant of the power relationships in the country, and of what a country needs to keep it together.

[normanchateau]

Does English-Canada (Ontario) understand that these people do not come from from French ridings?  Do they understand that the federal Liberal Party does not represent French Quebec?

Does English Canada understand that the federal Liberal Party is like a White South African Party? It runs Black candidates in White ridings.

One unequivocal conclusion is that the federal Conservative Party represents NEITHER the French-speaking NOR the English-speaking Quebec ridings.

[sharkman]

The Liberal Party is the only party that represents Canada, too. It is the only party that wants a united nation and not a collection of autonomous regions.

For the rest, I am beginning to think I do not care any more. The country is riding the proverbial handbasket: it is riding in one because so many posters here are representative of so many Canadians who are equally ignorant of the power relationships in the country, and of what a country needs to keep it together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the Liberal party is the only party that represents Canada, we be in trouble. The last decade has seen them dismantle large parts of Canada (military, healthcare) and single handedly give Quebec a reason on a silver platter to seperate.

Canada is in the handbasket because our leaders pander to the voters instead of being stewards of the country.

[seabee]

Canada is in the handbasket because our leaders pander to the voters instead of being stewards of the country.

How can people become stewards of the country without first being elected, which means pandering to the voters. It seems to be a vicious circle.

[scribblet]

Layton has allready said he can work with a CPC minority gov't, maybe next he'll actually endorse Harper -

http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/051218/n121863A.html

Layton says Liberals would widen rift with Quebec as Martin promises change

JAMES MCCARTEN

OTTAWA (CP) - Voters wary of widening Canada's rift with Quebec should think long and hard before voting Liberal, New Democrat Leader Jack Layton warned Sunday as Prime Minister Paul Martin billed his party as an agent for change despite 12 years in power.

Layton, lingering in B.C. to shore up soft NDP support in a key electoral battleground, accused Martin of damaging the process of reconciliation with Quebec by trying to make a ballot-box question out of the separatist threat.

Returning the Liberals to power would suggest to Quebec that the rest of Canada doesn't much care about the sponsorship scandal, he said.

"Canadians need to think very carefully about what voting Liberal would do concerning national unity," Layton said in the B.C. Interior town of Castlegar, where he was visiting a riding the NDP lost to the Conservatives by 680 votes in 2004.

"It would send a very strong message to Quebecers that Canadians frankly aren't very concerned about the Liberals' attempt to buy the support of Quebecers in a corrupt fashion."

[Slim MacSquinty]

This is classic Liberal arrogance, everybody else is stupid so it justifies our misdeads.

It surely looks as though Quebecers aren't so stupid though eureka, as they have finally said enough is enough.

Certainly the "blood" is on Liberal hands no matter how you stack it up the Liberals have insulted Quebec for decades, pandered to the rest of the country now caught with their fingers in the cookie jar are fabricating a crisis of serparation and American intervention.

I was pleased to see Duceppe school Martin on the difference between a federal party and a provincial one during the debate. Interesting to me to see a nationalist seem to have a better grip on federal politics that the PM.

Disgusting

[cybercoma]

I think localizing power is important no matter where you are in Canada. Ottawa doesn't best represent the interests of people all over this country, nor can they appreciate regional differences. They have to look at Canada as a whole, whereas giving more power to the provinces will address more regional concerns in a more efficient manner. Why Quebeckers, or anyone else in this country wouldn't want that is beyond me....

[fellowtraveller]

now caught with their fingers in the cookie jar are fabricating a crisis of serparation and American intervention

The crisis of separation is not fabricated, it is gathering momentum.

I agree that the 'American intervention' is fabricated, or rather just a reprise of the strawmen the Liberals seem obliged to create, then do battle with..

[August1991]

One unequivocal conclusion is that the federal Conservative Party represents NEITHER the French-speaking NOR the English-speaking Quebec ridings. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can't argue you with there, Norm - if you believe Lucienne Robillard personally represents Westmount. (I personally believe Lucienne Robillard's pet chihuahua, or pet seal, would get elected if it ran as the Liberal candidate on the ballot.)

----

"A Conservative government will offer a complete departure from the approaches of both the federal Liberals and the Bloc Quebecois," Harper said Monday on an election campaign visit to Quebec City.

 

Harper would allow Quebec to increase its presence on the world stage. He said the province would be able to represent itself at the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

CBC

The quote is better in French:

« J'entends commencer les discussions avec les provinces immédiatement (après le 23 janvier) pour trouver un consensus. Je reconnais que l'argent est à Ottawa mais que les besoins sont dans les provinces et dans les municipalités. Je chercherai une solution à long terme, mais les discussions ne seront pas faciles », a déclaré le chef conservateur.

Il promet aussi de mieux encadrer le pouvoir fédéral de dépenser, qui a donné lieu, selon lui à la naissance d'un fédéralisme « dominateur et paternaliste » sous les libéraux.

....

« Ce que M. Harper a dit aujourd'hui va dans le sens des demandes du Québec, c'est maintenant aux autres chefs de partis à se prononcer », a affirmé M. Charest.

R-C

This has received wide coverage in Quebec but it'll get Harper no votes. In response, I heard Duceppe say that he's seen alot of promises about new departures and new approaches.

But Harper was right to say it because, at this point, if there's any chance to put Canada (Quebec) back together, it has to come from someone outside of the arena, and certainly outside of Quebec.

----

Martin looks likely to get re-elected which will just confirm in most people's minds that the Liberal Party is inevitable, and English-Canada cares more about vassal states than honesty. I honestly don't know how Martin, Dion and Lapierre would re-act to a winning referendum.

If Harper is elected, could he come to an agreement with Charest? How would Duceppe or Dumont respond? I suspect Harper would speak for English-Canada in response to a winning referendum.

[cybercoma]

If the liberals win again, we might as well declare them the uncontested rulers of Canada and chalk one up for the weakness of democracy.

[Riverwind]

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