Martin's Big Mouth

[speaker]

America 1, it's true, 46% of us consider the USA to be the evil empire, populated by people driven to hate anybody else at the drop of a hat, or in this case at the drop of some criticism. unfortunately enough of the other 54% are like you, Canadians who wanna be Americans, who can't wait to send the other twenty percent of our exports to the States, because of course the subsidies we are already providing in the form of undervalued forest products, fossil fuels, beef, electricity, and maple syrup don't constitute enough help towards the Americans efforts to bring justice, democracy, free enterprise, and ruination to the rest of the world at the point of a gun.

I think there may be something phallic in this. You almost had me convinced that you were actually American in more than just desire but when you said that I could believe what I wanted, well that just was too much to believe coming from a real Yank.

[America1]

America 1,  it's true, 46% of us consider the USA to be the evil empire,  populated by people driven to hate anybody else at the drop of a hat, or in this case at the drop of some criticism.  unfortunately enough of the other 54% are like you,  Canadians who wanna be Americans, who can't wait to send the other twenty percent of our exports to the States, because of course the subsidies we are already providing in the form of undervalued forest products, fossil fuels, beef, electricity, and maple syrup don't constitute enough help towards the Americans efforts to bring justice, democracy, free enterprise, and ruination to the rest of the world at the point of a gun.

I think there may be something phallic in this.  You almost had me convinced that you were actually American in more than just desire but when you said that I could believe what I wanted, well that just was too much to believe coming from a real Yank.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

huh? - Dude, you couldn't be farther from the truth.

I live in Pennsylvania. Have almost my whole life. I've never even been to Canada (I hear its cold ).

BTW, here is an article supporting statement about the good ole USA getting tired of the bs coming from Canada.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...alDecision2006/

Washington scolds Ottawa

U.S. tired of Canadian attacks on environment, trade policies

[Black Dog]

I live in Pennsylvania. Have almost my whole life. I've never even been to Canada (I hear its cold  ).

So what you're saying is you have no idea what you're talking about? Good to know.

[America1]

I live in Pennsylvania. Have almost my whole life. I've never even been to Canada (I hear its cold  ).

So what you're saying is you have no idea what you're talking about? Good to know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That makes absolutely no sense.

I'm an American, I follow politics, watch tv news reports, read papers and websites (many Canadian sources). Why do you assume I have no idea what I'm talking about? Regardless, I’m writing about how AMERICANS perceive Canada being very anti-American in their views b/c of several (already posted) reasons. I think this qualifies me just fine to speak on this issue.

[Black Dog]

I'm an American, I follow politics, watch tv news reports, read papers and websites (many Canadian sources). Why do you assume I have no idea what I'm talking about?

Probably because most of what you've posted is such drivel.

Regardless, I’m writing about how AMERICANS perceive Canada being very anti-American in their views b/c of several (already posted) reasons. I think this qualifies me just fine to speak on this issue.

Really? What have you posted of substance? Your initial claim was "A large # of Americans are ever-increasingly seeing Canada and its citizens as anti-American." But you've not backed that up at all, instead trying to show us how anti-American Candians are. Which, again, doesn't support your point.

[America1]

I'm an American, I follow politics, watch tv news reports, read papers and websites (many Canadian sources). Why do you assume I have no idea what I'm talking about?

Probably because most of what you've posted is such drivel.

Regardless, I’m writing about how AMERICANS perceive Canada being very anti-American in their views b/c of several (already posted) reasons. I think this qualifies me just fine to speak on this issue.

Really? What have you posted of substance? Your initial claim was "A large # of Americans are ever-increasingly seeing Canada and its citizens as anti-American." But you've not backed that up at all, instead trying to show us how anti-American Candians are. Which, again, doesn't support your point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a joke.

Believe whatever you want buddy. As a matter of fact, Americans love getting insulted in front of the world by our "friends" (despite actually being more effective at reducing our emissions over the last year than Canada. Its just like when the AIDs Day fools smeared us for not give enough money, only to later find out that we give more than the rest of the world combined).

[Black Dog]

Believe whatever you want buddy. As a matter of fact, Americans love getting insulted in front of the world by our "friends" (despite actually being more effective at reducing our emissions over the last year than Canada. Its just like when the AIDs Day fools smeared us for not give enough money, only to later find out that we give more than the rest of the world combined).

And this supports your contention how? Christ, you can beat your chest all day long, but it in no way demonstrates any kind of evidence that Americans are getting increasingly upset with Canada. The bilious rantings of some guy on the internet about how Canada is gonna get it aren't evidence. The vast, vast majority of Americans don't know and don't care. I'd be very surprised if even 3/4 of Americans could tell you who Paul Martin is.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Christ, you can beat your chest all day long, but it in no way demonstrates any kind of evidence that Americans are getting increasingly upset with Canada.

There is plenty of evidence that the PM's complaints about the U.S. stir up anti-American feelings amongst Canucks.

Wouldn't the Yanks do likewise when their President complains about us?

Of course they would, don't be ridiculous.

[Slavik44]

Teenagers don't know anything about anything. They make some of the posters here seem bright by comparison.

Posters like yourself?

[Black Dog]

There is plenty of evidence that the PM's complaints about the U.S. stir up anti-American feelings amongst Canucks.

Wouldn't the Yanks do likewise when their President complains about us?

Of course they would, don't be ridiculous.

Well, Balki (and I have to applaud your "Perfect Strangers" reset), there's a big difference between the two cultures. Canadians have a natural tendancy to compare themselves to the United States. Living in the shadow of the colossus will do that. So there's an existing resevoir of America-angst for PM PM and his ilk to tap. But Americans are different. They don't think much about what other countries think of them, nor do they particularily care, so its harder to stir up any dislike for a country no one even really thinks about. Unllike, say, France, who's in your face anti-Americanism long passed into the realm of cliche, Canada has long been regarded as the bland, benign neighbour. That is, when it's thought of at all.

Basically, I've a hard time believing America could tear itself away from its own reflection long enough to spare a thought to what we think of them.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Unllike, say, France, who's in your face anti-Americanism long passed into the realm of cliche, Canada has long been regarded as the bland, benign neighbour. That is, when it's thought of at all.

Basically, I've a hard time believing America could tear itself away from its own reflection long enough to spare a thought to what we think of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not so sure that Canada isn't creeping up on France with it's anti-Americanism, trying to wrest away the title.

After Freedom Fries can Democracy Bacon & Capitalist Dry be far behind?

They already call the French "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" & Canadians "Cheese Heads". I'm seeing a dairy inspired connection starting & it's not pretty.

[Argus]

Teens see United States as evil global force

You care about what teenagers think? Is this a joke? Teenagers don't know anything about anything. They make some of the posters here seem bright by comparison. Why would you care what they think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The story also said "Clearly, the anti-American sentiment isn't just something coming from 30-somethings or even 20-somethings.'' - very much implying that 20 and 30 somethings have held this view for sometime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are the people who thankfully don't vote, so blase and knowledge-free that they think they're too sophisticated for voting. Whether teenagers or twentysomethings, you're talking about largely self indulgent children who rarely read a newspaper, or watch the news on TV, and who never bother to look beyond the most simplistic, obvious and comforting answers to everything.

Thankfully, as they grow older, they'll tend to acquire knowledge and stop being such simplistic dolts.

[Argus]

America 1,  it's true, 46% of us consider the USA to be the evil empire,  populated by people driven to hate anybody else at the drop of a hat, or in this case at the drop of some criticism.  unfortunately enough of the other 54% are like you,  Canadians who wanna be Americans, who can't wait to send the other twenty percent of our exports to the States,

The typical ideoligcal construct of the extremist. "Anyone who doesn't believe like me is un(place nation name here).

Very boring.

[Argus]

I'm an American, I follow politics, watch tv news reports, read papers and websites (many Canadian sources). Why do you assume I have no idea what I'm talking about?

Probably because most of what you've posted is such drivel.

You should listen to him. If BD is really knowledgeable about anything it's on posting drivel.

[sharkman]

Believe whatever you want buddy. As a matter of fact, Americans love getting insulted in front of the world by our "friends" (despite actually being more effective at reducing our emissions over the last year than Canada. Its just like when the AIDs Day fools smeared us for not give enough money, only to later find out that we give more than the rest of the world combined).

And this supports your contention how? Christ, you can beat your chest all day long, but it in no way demonstrates any kind of evidence that Americans are getting increasingly upset with Canada. The bilious rantings of some guy on the internet about how Canada is gonna get it aren't evidence. The vast, vast majority of Americans don't know and don't care. I'd be very surprised if even 3/4 of Americans could tell you who Paul Martin is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BD, I believe your hackles are rising! What the American government is thinking is more important than what the typical American is thinking since they make decisions like lifting or not the lumber tarrifs. And they are not happy with Martin. That much you have to admit.

Furthermore, you say you'd be surprised if 3/4 of Americans could name Martin. That doesn't prove anything. But one has to wonder about American sentiment towards Canada when our gov. has been so knee jerk racist( I can use this term to describe anti-american feelings in Canada and if you can't get your head around it too bad) for several years. We are going to pay for our gov.'s attitude in the coming years, the passport thing is only the start.

[speaker]

This is really good, maybe once again we've hit on something that could work. If we keep electing Liberals and they keep the Americans really, well, whatever it is that America is feeling towards Canada, that prevents them from taking more of our undervalued products, the more our kids will have in the future.

Canadians who want to feed the war machine should be reined in as gently as possible, and sent to re-education camps where perhaps basket weaving would be a good introductory course to get the minds relaxed and organized.

[Black Dog]

You should listen to him. If BD is really knowledgeable about anything it's on posting drivel.

Is that shot necessary? Or are you just being an asshole because, well, fish gotta swim and birds gotta fly?

BD, I believe your hackles are rising! What the American government is thinking is more important than what the typical American is thinking since they make decisions like lifting or not the lumber tarrifs. And they are not happy with Martin. That much you have to admit.

Sure. But the formulation put forward was that Joe America is getting mighty steamed with us Canucks.

hat doesn't prove anything. But one has to wonder about American sentiment towards Canada when our gov. has been so knee jerk racist( I can use this term to describe anti-american feelings in Canada and if you can't get your head around it too bad) for several years.

First: re: rascism. U.S. A merican is not a race. Deal with it.

Second: no one has presented any evidence that Americans (not the government, but the people) know or care about what we say.

[PocketRocket]

.... no one has presented any evidence that Americans (not the government, but the people) know or care about what we say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed. In fact, after watching a few episodes of Rick Mercer's "Talking To Americans", it's apparent that a lot of them don't even know where we are.

Heh heh. I still recall the one where a woman was being asked if she thinks it's a bad thing that most Canadian kids don't know the names of the Canadian "state" capitals, and while she pondered the question, her son, a kid about 8 years old, said "Hey, wait a minute, Canada has provinces, not states".

Or what about the Seal hunting in Saskatchewan??? Heh heh.

"Would you climb on top of Peter Mann's Bridge to protest the Saskatchewan seal hunt???".

Or Canada's new $5.00 wooden coin. "Congratulations, Canada, on your first woody".

Or how about "Congratulations, Canada, on preserving your national igloo".

Bloody college professors making fools of themselves offering truly earnest opinions of totally, ludicrously, foolish, non-existent situations in Canada.

Even GWB was recorded expressing his happiness that "Prime Minister Poutine" was behind him in his first election.

How can you run for president of the USA when you don't even know the name of the elected leader of your immediate neighbour???

And the American public, when informed of this fact, didn't care any more than George did.

The simple fact is that the vast majority of Americans neither know nor care anything about Canada.

[America1]

.... no one has presented any evidence that Americans (not the government, but the people) know or care about what we say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed. In fact, after watching a few episodes of Rick Mercer's "Talking To Americans", it's apparent that a lot of them don't even know where we are.

Heh heh. I still recall the one where a woman was being asked if she thinks it's a bad thing that most Canadian kids don't know the names of the Canadian "state" capitals, and while she pondered the question, her son, a kid about 8 years old, said "Hey, wait a minute, Canada has provinces, not states".

Or what about the Seal hunting in Saskatchewan??? Heh heh.

"Would you climb on top of Peter Mann's Bridge to protest the Saskatchewan seal hunt???".

Or Canada's new $5.00 wooden coin. "Congratulations, Canada, on your first woody".

Or how about "Congratulations, Canada, on preserving your national igloo".

Bloody college professors making fools of themselves offering truly earnest opinions of totally, ludicrously, foolish, non-existent situations in Canada.

Even GWB was recorded expressing his happiness that "Prime Minister Poutine" was behind him in his first election.

How can you run for president of the USA when you don't even know the name of the elected leader of your immediate neighbour???

And the American public, when informed of this fact, didn't care any more than George did.

The simple fact is that the vast majority of Americans neither know nor care anything about Canada.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what a compete load of crap.

BTW: when GWB said "PM Poutine", he was speaking about Putin in Russia, nothing to due with Canada.

[PocketRocket]

what a compete load of crap.

BTW: when GWB said "PM Poutine", he was speaking about Putin in Russia, nothing to due with Canada.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really??? Was Putin even in power at that time???

Did you actually see the episode where Mercer asked Bush about "Canadian Prime Minister Jean Poutine"???

Sorry, Am1, but I actually WATCHED the episode in question (more than once), and Bush responded to Mercer's comment about "PM Poutine" in a favorable way.

Much was made of this in a few American papers for a couple days, from what I understand (Although I did not personally see any of these, I will readily admit, but did see a couple American news broadcasts refer to the incident, and the papers, laughingly)

I will see if I can find out whether any of these episodes are available online, and let you know where you can check them out if they are.

BTW, did you used to moderate/run a site called "AmericanForums"???

If so, whatever happened to it??? It was a great site.

Edited to add: I haven't had any luck finding a video clip yet, but in Google, I punched in "canada prime minister jean poutine", and got about a zillion results, all of which back my story.

Try it, and if you decide to lighten up a bit, you might get a good laugh out of it.

The Democrats sure did

[PocketRocket]

More for AMERICA1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_to_Americans

The most famous segment, aired in 2000, featured Mercer asking then-presidential candidate George W. Bush – who had previously stated that "you can't stump me on world leaders" – for his reaction to an endorsement by Canadian Prime Minister "Jean Poutine", as well as to report the "traditional visit to the US" of the "King of Canada", Lucien Bonhomme.

Bush said he looked forward to working together with his future counterpart to the north, praised his support of free trade, and looked forward to the King's visit. However, Canada has no King (the monarch is British Queen Elizabeth II) the Prime Minister's name at the time was Jean Chrétien; poutine is in fact a French-Canadian fast food dish of french fries, gravy and cheese curd. Also, Chrétien had not endorsed any candidate at the time.

And here I had forgotten about "King Bonhomme".

[PocketRocket]

Sorry Am1, no offense, but I'm having fun with this.

Perhaps this was the source of your mistaken impression of the event...

http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/...shpoutine000302

But the Washington Post's columnist Al Kamen called it a bit unfair.

"I guess I'm a little sympathetic. He was a little tired. But I appreciate shows like This Hour Has 22 Minutes because they lighten things up," Kamen said.

However, Kamen made a mistake of his own. He mistook the word "poutine" for "Putin", believing Mercer was referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

But Mercer specifically said prime minister "of Canada".

I would think that Bush, who had earlier trumpeted that he would not be caught out making mistakes on foreign leaders' names would at least know the leader of America's "best friend to the north of us". (Sorry, but I can't find the link to the timeline on these statements)

Good thing he specified that. If he had said "second best friend to the north of us", he would have REALLY been poutine his foot in it.

[Big Blue Machine]

This is dumb with Martin attacking the Americans. When he came to office, he had the politically easy choice or the right choice. Unforunately with the stupid politically popular Anti Americanism in this country, the choice was easy for him

[PocketRocket]

This is dumb with Martin attacking the Americans. When he came to office, he had the politically easy choice or the right choice.

Why is "criticism" always equated with "attack".

First of all, what you call "attacks" are not "dumb", they are in fact quite intelligent, both from a political standpoint, and from the view of getting the USA to live up to their NAFTA agreements.

Politically, they help Martin, and, if they bear fruit, will help Canada's economy.

Kyoto is something Canada has been behind since day one, so there is no contradiction in trying to "persuade" the USA to join in.

Softwood lumber, etc, is a real concern to Canada, and the American government SHOULD be criticized for its behaviour vis-a-vis softwood-NAFTA.

But all this "attacking the USA" rhetoric that we keep hearing about is what is really dumb.

Immediately following Hurricane Katrina, Martin said this......

"On behalf of the Government of Canada and all Canadians, I offer our sincere condolences to the American people. During this most difficult time, Canada stands with you, and we are ready to provide whatever support you may require in the days, weeks and months ahead."

.......and boy oh boy, them's fightin' words, ain't they???

In fact, the USA was so upset by this "attack" that their ambassador Wilkins responded in a most outraged fashion, saying.....

"Four years after the devastating terror attacks of September 11, 2001, my country finds itself once again hurting deeply. And today - just as it did four years ago - Canada has come to our aid early and eagerly."

.....so I can see how deeply and intensly Canada wants to "hurt" the USA with her "attacks".

Early and eagerly, to the aid of America.

Yeah, we really hate the USA

Unforunately with the stupid politically popular Anti Americanism in this country, the choice was easy for him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe it's not anti-Americanism so much as anti-Bushism.

You CAN love a country, and still not like that same country's government.

Much the way you feel about Canada, it seems.