Biblio Bibuli Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 I'd like to see Ignatieff and Robinson win their seats. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well you've got the "Good" and the "Bad"... who's your pick for the "Ugly"? Quote When a true Genius appears in the World, you may know him by this Sign, that the Dunces are all in confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift GO IGGY GO!
Argus Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 del Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 Peter MacKay for his betrayal of the Progressive Conservatives, a conservative party that was actually all-inclusive and trusted by a significant number of Canadians, including those from Quebec. CPC will have to transform itself into a PC-like party in order to regain that trust. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Trusted them so much they wouldn't vote for them. The party was walking dead, on the verge of bankruptcy, without ideas or support. If it hadn't merged with the Alliance when it did it would have been destroyed in the last election. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Destroyed, walking dead??? Are you describing the alliance? You know the party that was unable to poll above 20% in the 2 years leading up to the merger? The party that was only 1 point higher than the bloc? The alliance was the definition of walking dead having their potential share of the popular vote cut in half from the previous election. That is the definitionof walkign dead Harper an dmost of the alliance could see the writing on the wall and were an election away from becoming the bloc alberta. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is silly and revisionist. The PCs had 1 MP in the west; Joe Clark, elected largely with NDP and Liberal support in order to frustrate the Alliance (anyone other than Clark would have been humiliated by that). Their MPs in Atlantic Canada were all elected the previous election because the Liberals made the mistake of slashing pogey and cutting grants - a mistake they had learned from and reversed. The PCs would have lost most of them in the following election. The PCs had zero MPs in Ontario and Quebec. More importantly, they had no money. The party was deep in debt, with a small base of supporters, and no business, corporate or labour support. It didn't have the money to go into another election with little likelihood of obtaining any. They were dead in the water and going nowhere. And who was going to reinvigorate the party? David Orchard, who got lost on his way from an NDP luncheon? Please. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Kiraly Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 More importantly, they had no money. The party was deep in debt, with a small base of supporters, and no business, corporate or labour support. It didn't have the money to go into another election with little likelihood of obtaining any. They were dead in the water and going nowhere. How soon people forget, eh? MacKay's squad was about $5 million in debt post PC convention. And as you mentioned, their financial support from business and private individuals pretty much dried up. As for polling, it is true that the PC's polled better during this period.... ...by a few percentage points. They polled in the mid-teens and the Alliance polled in the low to mid-teens. Quote
Montgomery Burns Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 Which MP would you most like to see lose their seat ?Me: Scott Brison and Belinda Stronach <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ANNA MCLELLAN FOR SURE!!! I never liked her even when I did vote Liberal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You don't like Anne "screeching to the point of earpain" McLellan? Quote "Anybody who doesn't appreciate what America has done, and President Bush, let them go to hell!" -- Iraqi Betty Dawisha, after dropping her vote in the ballot box, wields The Cluebat™ to the anti-liberty crowd on Dec 13, 2005. "Call me crazy, but I think they [iraqis] were happy with thier [sic] dumpy homes before the USA levelled so many of them" -- Gerryhatrick, Feb 3, 2006.
Montgomery Burns Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 Which MP would you most like to see lose their seat ?Me: Scott Brison and Belinda Stronach <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have to give Stronach credit for having gall: Last May, Belinda Stronach crossed the floor and now she wants her former campaign team to follow. The Liberal cabinet minister is asking the Conservative volunteers who helped her get elected in 2004 to come work for the Liberal party. "I would like to take this opportunity to personally reach out to you, because you worked so hard to elect me as the member of Parliament for Newmarket-Aurora," Stronach wrote last week in a letter to the volunteers. "If you are still supportive and wish to become involved in the upcoming election campaign, I would love to hear from you!" Kylie-Anne Young, 24, of Newmarket, who managed youth activities for Stronach in the 2004 campaign, said she got angry when she saw the letter. "She sold out every single person who volunteered for her," Young said. Yes Ms. Young, you are correct. Quote "Anybody who doesn't appreciate what America has done, and President Bush, let them go to hell!" -- Iraqi Betty Dawisha, after dropping her vote in the ballot box, wields The Cluebat™ to the anti-liberty crowd on Dec 13, 2005. "Call me crazy, but I think they [iraqis] were happy with thier [sic] dumpy homes before the USA levelled so many of them" -- Gerryhatrick, Feb 3, 2006.
tml12 Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 Which MP would you most like to see lose their seat ?Me: Scott Brison and Belinda Stronach <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have to give Stronach credit for having gall: Last May, Belinda Stronach crossed the floor and now she wants her former campaign team to follow. The Liberal cabinet minister is asking the Conservative volunteers who helped her get elected in 2004 to come work for the Liberal party. "I would like to take this opportunity to personally reach out to you, because you worked so hard to elect me as the member of Parliament for Newmarket-Aurora," Stronach wrote last week in a letter to the volunteers. "If you are still supportive and wish to become involved in the upcoming election campaign, I would love to hear from you!" Kylie-Anne Young, 24, of Newmarket, who managed youth activities for Stronach in the 2004 campaign, said she got angry when she saw the letter. "She sold out every single person who volunteered for her," Young said. Yes Ms. Young, you are correct. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah Belinda Belinda Belinda, Yeah she did...power hungry is as power hungry does. And she stole my MP's portfolio!!! Quote "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -Alexander Hamilton
apollo19 Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 I would like to see Volpe lose his seat, that guy is a real hothead. He goes off on random tangents swiping at the Conservatives, while he has no idea of any good policies . Another person I would like to see lose their seat is Jack Layton . Some of his ideas are completely insane, and hopefully voters in the Danforth area will see that. He didn't win by too much last election, so it is a possibility if the Liberals pool enough resources into his riding... but now they seem more interested in an alliance with him. Quote
Slavik44 Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 This is silly and revisionist. The PCs had 1 MP in the west; Joe Clark, elected largely with NDP and Liberal support in order to frustrate the Alliance (anyone other than Clark would have been humiliated by that). Their MPs in Atlantic Canada were all elected the previous election because the Liberals made the mistake of slashing pogey and cutting grants - a mistake they had learned from and reversed. The PCs would have lost most of them in the following election. The PCs had zero MPs in Ontario and Quebec. More importantly, they had no money. The party was deep in debt, with a small base of supporters, and no business, corporate or labour support. It didn't have the money to go into another election with little likelihood of obtaining any. They were dead in the water and going nowhere. And who was going to reinvigorate the party? David Orchard, who got lost on his way from an NDP luncheon? Please. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have completely failed to adress my post. If you are going to accuse me of revisionism make damn well sure you point out where it is. Instead it appears as though you nearly went into cardiac arrest when you saw someone make a bad comment about the Alberta Alliance and rushed in to preach the impending doom of the P.C's, a party I never even mentioned in my post. You know what I said, you know it made no mention of the Progressive conservatives and simply changing the topic does not change the truth. The truth is that in every region of the country the Alliance party was polling lower than there share of the popular vote from the previous election. They were even polling much lower than the reform parties share of the vote in 97 and 93. In fact the last poll before the merge took place saw the Alliance party recieving 10% of the popular vote basically half of what the reform party recieved. This is not revisionism this is fact and it is exactly why you completely avoided addressing it in your post, because it doesn't fit with your arguements, shame on you. If the progressive conservatives were walking dead, than with out a doubt the alliance was going to meet its impending doom as a serious national party. Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007
Argus Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 This is silly and revisionist. The PCs had 1 MP in the west; Joe Clark, elected largely with NDP and Liberal support in order to frustrate the Alliance (anyone other than Clark would have been humiliated by that). Their MPs in Atlantic Canada were all elected the previous election because the Liberals made the mistake of slashing pogey and cutting grants - a mistake they had learned from and reversed. The PCs would have lost most of them in the following election. The PCs had zero MPs in Ontario and Quebec. More importantly, they had no money. The party was deep in debt, with a small base of supporters, and no business, corporate or labour support. It didn't have the money to go into another election with little likelihood of obtaining any. They were dead in the water and going nowhere. And who was going to reinvigorate the party? David Orchard, who got lost on his way from an NDP luncheon? Please. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have completely failed to adress my post. If you are going to accuse me of revisionism make damn well sure you point out where it is. Instead it appears as though you nearly went into cardiac arrest when you saw someone make a bad comment about the Alberta Alliance and rushed in to preach the impending doom of the P.C's, a party I never even mentioned in my post. You know what I said, you know it made no mention of the Progressive conservatives and simply changing the topic does not change the truth. Speaking of changing the topic... If you want to go off on a tangent you can do it without me. I posted, in response to a comment that McKay had "betrayed" the PCs by merging with the Alliance, that the PCs were the walking dead anyway. THAT is the topic. I don't care what the Alliance's polls were in comparison to the BQ. That is utterly irrelevent. The Alliance had a vast membership throughout the country, including Ontario, from which it was getting a lot of money. It also had corporate and business support and was in decent fiscal shape. I don't know how it would have done in the following election if it hadn't merged. I do know it would have been around, in strong shape, to fight the election after that, and the one after that. To suggest it would have faded to an Alberta party is ludicrous. Would the Liberals get 90% of the vote in Ontario and everywhere else but Alberta? Would the NDP have doubled their voter support? The PCs were dead and bankrupt, so it certainly wouldn't have gone to them. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Slavik44 Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 Speaking of changing the topic... If you want to go off on a tangent you can do it without me. I posted, in response to a comment that McKay had "betrayed" the PCs by merging with the Alliance, that the PCs were the walking dead anyway. THAT is the topic. Well actually the topic was which MP would you most like to see loose their seat, so in technicality we both went off on a tangent. You however made a claim and failed to back it up, so you were off topic in your own post. don't care what the Alliance's polls were in comparison to the BQ. Of course you don't by ignoring certian important pieces of information your arguement is stregnthend. That is utterly irrelevent. No its not, sucess is based largely on how many people vote for you, it is completely assinine to call voter intentions utterly irrelavant. The Alliance had a vast membership throughout the country, including Ontario, from which it was getting a lot of money. It also had corporate and business support and was in decent fiscal shape. Yeah in the 2000 election I think the Alliance had higher membership than the Liberals...this doesn't neccasarily translate into votes or success. Despite there high membership and money the pary was polling between 10-12% in the months leading up to the merge. Which shows the party was struggling to maintain general popularity. I don't know how it would have done in the following election if it hadn't merged. I do know it would have been around, in strong shape, to fight the election after that, and the one after that. Generally speaking the party failed to make a break through in 2000 and were predicted to do much much worse in the next election. To put it bluntly they were bleeding voter support, a party that fails to make inroads one election and then retreats the next election is not going to be in strong shape when the election after that comes by. To suggest it would have faded to an Alberta party is ludicrous. Would the Liberals get 90% of the vote in Ontario and everywhere else but Alberta? I disagree, even if they recieved a huge jump over their numbers of 10-12% to maybe 16%, they still most likely would have dropped out of Ontario and continue to draw blanks in Quebec in the maratimes and taken a small hit in the west. It was already seen as an Alberta based party it only would have gotten worse if they dropped further back to the west and alberta. Would the NDP have doubled their voter support? Would the NDP have double their voter support? Well in 2000 they recieved 8% of the vote...the last poll before the merge showed them at 15%...so yes. The PCs were dead and bankrupt, so it certainly wouldn't have gone to them. This is exactly why the merge was neccasary for both Parties, the P.C's needed money and the alliance needed good solid prospects East of Manitoba. By Merging both parties got what they needed, The alliance was given Much better prospects east of manitoba and they had money to capitalize on this. Both Parties needed this merge, both parties had hit a rocky patch of road, and both parties needed help, the thing was both parties had what the other party needed. This isn't a case of the P.C's being saved by the alliance but a case of both parties being better off together. Lets call it like it is Argus both parties needed what the other had it is not just a case of the P.C's needing the Alliance. Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007
August1991 Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 I don't mean to interrupt a good discussion but the thread title is appropriate for the following post. (Maybe you should start a new thread - Alliance-Conserrvative merger?) ---- My preferred losers? Denis Coderre, Pierre Pettigrew and Liza Frulla. Frulla has been in the news lately in Quebec because Gilles Duceppe has shown that she accepted sponsorship money in 2002, when she was a candidate in a by-election: Il a affirmé que trois organisateurs libéraux impliqués dans le scandale des commandites, Jacques Corriveau, Claude Boulay et Paul Coffin, avaient contribué à la campagne de Liza Frulla en 2002, lorsqu'elle a été élue dans la circonscription de Jeanne-Le Ber à la faveur d'une élection complémentaire. Her answer? En entrevue à Radio-Canada, Liza Frulla a déclaré que les contributions à sa campagne ont été faites sans qu'elle le sache et que dès l'éclatement du scandale des commandites, en 2004, elle a immédiatement placé l'argent en fidéicommis. R-CLike Martin, she didn't know. I have the impression that this scandal has died in English-Canada. Quote
Montgomery Burns Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 This is a toughy for me. Hedy Fry needs to lose her seat, but unfortunately she's being challenged by Svend Robinson, another moonbat. I want both of them to be shut out, but that is unlikey. For shame. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The CBC reported Robinson running today on their website. Here is what our state-run taxpayer-funded CBC reported: He's [svend Robinson] running against incumbent Liberal MP Hedy Fry. Apparently those two are the only ones running in Vancouver Centre, at least in the liberal la-la land of the CBC. Conservative candidate Tony Fogarassy is not even mentioned in the article. Your tax dollars at work... Quote "Anybody who doesn't appreciate what America has done, and President Bush, let them go to hell!" -- Iraqi Betty Dawisha, after dropping her vote in the ballot box, wields The Cluebat™ to the anti-liberty crowd on Dec 13, 2005. "Call me crazy, but I think they [iraqis] were happy with thier [sic] dumpy homes before the USA levelled so many of them" -- Gerryhatrick, Feb 3, 2006.
shoop Posted December 5, 2005 Report Posted December 5, 2005 Back to a common area of agreement Monty. Funny how the article *also* didn't mention how the last party to hold this riding before Hedy Fry was the Progressive Conservatives. I know I knew the name of that MP at some point... What was her name? Wasn't she PM for a while? Apparently those two are the only ones running in Vancouver Centre, at least in the liberal la-la land of the CBC. Conservative candidate Tony Fogarassy is not even mentioned in the article. Your tax dollars at work... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote
southerncomfort Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 Thats an easy one, Belinda Stronach, Joe Volpe and Scot Brison. Quote
daniel Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 Stephen Harper, Peter MacKay, and Paul Martin. Quote
tml12 Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 Stephen Harper, Peter MacKay, and Paul Martin. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> May I ask what party you're voting for? Quote "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -Alexander Hamilton
normanchateau Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 Peter MacKay for his betrayal of the Progressive Conservatives, a conservative party that was actually all-inclusive and trusted by a significant number of Canadians, including those from Quebec. CPC will have to transform itself into a PC-like party in order to regain that trust. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Trusted them so much they wouldn't vote for them. The party was walking dead, on the verge of bankruptcy, without ideas or support. If it hadn't merged with the Alliance when it did it would have been destroyed in the last election. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I stand by my point that the PCs were trusted. The party was dying because many small c-conservatives thought the Alliance could better defeat the Liberals. The alliance could not defeat the Liberals. Neither could Reform. Had the Alliance disappeared and the PCs survived, the Liberals today would be facing a trusted conservative party untainted by extreme positions like opposing marijuana decriminalization, opposing inclusion of sexual orientation in hate crimes legislation, etc. Joe Clark, like the Liberals, NDP and BQ, were not opposed. Quebecc has elected PC governments in the past but they won't elect a Harperite party with socially intolerant Reform/Alliance views. If "uniting the right" was a clever move, why is the combined Alliance/PC vote higher than the CPC vote? Quote
tml12 Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 Peter MacKay for his betrayal of the Progressive Conservatives, a conservative party that was actually all-inclusive and trusted by a significant number of Canadians, including those from Quebec. CPC will have to transform itself into a PC-like party in order to regain that trust. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Trusted them so much they wouldn't vote for them. The party was walking dead, on the verge of bankruptcy, without ideas or support. If it hadn't merged with the Alliance when it did it would have been destroyed in the last election. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I stand by my point that the PCs were trusted. The party was dying because many small c-conservatives thought the Alliance could better defeat the Liberals. The alliance could not defeat the Liberals. Neither could Reform. Had the Alliance disappeared and the PCs survived, the Liberals today would be facing a trusted conservative party untainted by extreme positions like opposing marijuana decriminalization, opposing inclusion of sexual orientation in hate crimes legislation, etc. Joe Clark, like the Liberals, NDP and BQ, were not opposed. Quebecc has elected PC governments in the past but they won't elect a Harperite party with socially intolerant Reform/Alliance views. If "uniting the right" was a clever move, why is the combined Alliance/PC vote higher than the CPC vote? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What about unite the right with a former PC leader? Quote "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -Alexander Hamilton
Guest eureka Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 With a former PC policy perhaps! Quote
shoop Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 The CPCs platform, as agreed to this past spring, is far closer to the old PC party's than any other party that make up the new party. Alas, eureka, you would neve ractually take the time to do the research and actually look into this. Would you... With a former PC policy perhaps! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote
daniel Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 The CPCs platform, as agreed to this past spring, is far closer to the old PC party's than any other party that make up the new party. Alas, eureka, you would neve ractually take the time to do the research and actually look into this. Would you... With a former PC policy perhaps! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So the prodigal son has returned home. But you know how the rest of the story goes with the son who remained loyal. Quote
southerncomfort Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 The CPCs platform, as agreed to this past spring, is far closer to the old PC party's than any other party that make up the new party. Alas, eureka, you would neve ractually take the time to do the research and actually look into this. Would you... With a former PC policy perhaps! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yup it is, it is more red tory than Alliance, like its been said, the CPC is liberal lite now. I've read these misconception before and nobody actually reads the darned thing. Too bad these people who spread untruths around should read the proposed policy documents and what was passed and what was turned down. I used to read all kinds of strange accusations and myths on the old 50plus forums, most if it rarely was based on fact and current issues. Quote
shoop Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 No actually I don't. Believe it or not, not all CPC supporters are well versed in the bible! So the prodigal son has returned home. But you know how the rest of the story goes with the son who remained loyal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote
southerncomfort Posted December 6, 2005 Report Posted December 6, 2005 No actually I don't. Believe it or not, not all CPC supporters are well versed in the bible! So the prodigal son has returned home. But you know how the rest of the story goes with the son who remained loyal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats another myth dispelled LOL for sure they are not well versed, I'm not - Quote
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