Election Race

[theloniusfleabag]

The 'opening gambit' of the CPC led by Harper seems to have headed straight to the gutter on the first day. from..

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/Natio...c=n1124107A.xml

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper got things rolling Thursday - just minutes after he tabled a non-confidence motion that's expected to trigger an election next week - when he accused the Liberals of being in cahoots with criminals.

"(Liberals have) been found guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec with the help of organized crime,"

While I have no love for the corruption that taints the Federal Liberals, this comment is dangerously close to 'slanderous libel' and could have been presented in a far more responsible manner. Like this comment...

"Mr. Volpe is a sleazebag," said Tory campaign co-chair John Reynolds.

Seems the tories have begun 'winning over the Canadian public' by shooting off their mouths, and themselves in the foot.

Perhaps Ralph Klein is right, that Harper is unfit to run the country, and could only let the rest of us know through his bizarre actions of predicting a Liberal (albeit minority) win.

[shoop]

Perhaps you could try and represent Klein's statements accurately? Nah.....

Klein never said that Harper was unfit to run the country. He was asked if thought Harper was going to win, and he said no.

Nice try, yet another lie from a Liberal.

Perhaps Ralph Klein is right, that Harper is unfit to run the country, and could only let the rest of us know through his bizarre actions of predicting a Liberal (albeit minority) win.

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[Guest eureka]

I received my first piece of Conservative mail (compliments of Scott Reid). It is about the rising violent crime rates and deporting criminals.

That though violent crime rates have been decreasing.

It seems that we are going to get the same old deceptions foisted on us.

"Rising violent crime rates threaten the Canadian way of life. I will stand up for safe streets, secure bprders and healthy communities."

Stephen Harper.

What a serpent the man is.

[Neal.F.]

Klein be damned! How the Tories can win the election

The above article pretty much sums it up.

I will only add that While many Canadians have their suspicions about the Libs, pursuing this line about organized crime, and personal attacks on MPs without red-hot, irrefutable and tangible evidence is risky business for Harper. It sounds like the "Martin supports paedophilia" thingy that called into question whether or not he was ready for prime time. The first crack in what had hitherto been a flawless campaign.

Harper needs to be positive, upbeat, and talking abot what he has to offer,

not about what soundrels the Liberals are. We know that already. But people

will vote for the devil they know, if they are convinced you are the devil

they don't. he needs to define himself and his party, before the Liberals

define him.

[Riverwind]

"(Liberals have) been found guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec with the help of organized crime,"

Harper is clearly an idiot. He just handed the Liberals a club to beat him with over and over again. It does not make a difference how reasonable, measured or accurate his comments about the sponsership fraud are from now on: the Liberals can now play the victim and claim that the opposition critics are exagerating the extent of the corruption. It is the 'child porn' gaff all over again.

It is still early in the campaign so it may be long forgotten by the vote comes but the episode does show a disturbing lack of judgement on Harper's part.

[politika]

I have faith in the P.C. I think Klein should be fired Who says that about their boss on National News. That was pretty stupid of Klein.

But besides that, I think the Conservatives can at least win a minority. I think unfortunatly thats's how it will be because everyone's going to vote Liberal even though they're corrupt but The PC will come out on top because people who are educated in the news know that Conservatives are the better of the bad apple Liberals.

[Neal.F.]

"(Liberals have) been found guilty of breaking every conceivable law in the province of Quebec with the help of organized crime,"

Harper is clearly an idiot. He just handed the Liberals a club to beat him with over and over again. It does not make a difference how reasonable, measured or accurate his comments about the sponsership fraud are from now on: the Liberals can now play the victim and claim that the opposition critics are exagerating the extent of the corruption. It is the 'child porn' gaff all over again.

It is still early in the campaign so it may be long forgotten by the vote comes but the episode does show a disturbing lack of judgement on Harper's part.

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The Fleabag is right, but I'll expand on the magnitude of the error. First off, we know the CP does not have enough boots on the ground to take more than 2-3 seats...if they're lucky. All his coments will do is drive more voters into the arms of the SEPARATIST Bloc Quebecois. If he does get to be PM, he is very possibly going to have to fight a referendum on Quebec independence, and if he's prone to hyperbole, like that, and like the Paedophila thing, he's not up to doing battle with Duceppe and Boisclair on their home turf. Conservative or not, he should want as many Federalist allies as possible in the HoC, who WILL lay partisan issues aside for the duration of a refeendum campaign. the more seats the Bloc loses, the bigger the hit to separatist prestige, and the less likely a referendum becomes.

Has he ever stopped to think "what if the Bloc gets 58-60 MPs?" They will use their influence (and or money) in the provincial election, and in the referendum that will folow if the PQ wins.

he's out of his league in Quebec, and its ;argely his own fault. he ignore the province for nearly two years, and lost the momentum of June 2004. He needd to concentrate on te few serious prospects he has.

and more long term, has he figured out that for the long term, his future prospects in QC will depend on his being able to dislodge ant-liberal federalists and soft nationalists from the BQ? After all that was the traditional Tory base in QC. As long as the bloc remains strong, and has prestige, and the tories look mickey mouse, it's not goingto happen. Let teh Block be talen down a peg, and suddenly there';s an opportunity!

[kimmy]

I received my first piece of Conservative mail (compliments of Scott Reid). It is about the rising violent crime rates and deporting criminals.

That though violent crime rates have been decreasing.

It seems that we are going to get the same old deceptions foisted on us.

"Rising violent crime rates threaten the Canadian way of life. I will stand up for safe streets, secure bprders and healthy communities."

Stephen Harper.

What a serpent the man is.

Haven't you heard? It's "A National Crisis."

-k

[szkw1]

The scary part of the Conservative party is that many of their members are from the original Aliance party. They are a stranger than the Liberals.

Also they had better be careful about bringing up past inproprieties of the Liberal party unless they wan to be reminded why the Conservative party had so few seats after the Mulroney gov't.

[Kiraly]

Also they had better be careful about bringing up past inproprieties of the Liberal party unless they wan to be reminded why the Conservative party had so few seats after the Mulroney gov't.

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I'd say bring it on.

[shoop]

Harper did go too far. That said, I think Martin "demanding" an apology is sad. How about paying back that $1.14 Million as a start....

Harper is clearly an idiot. He just handed the Liberals a club to beat him with over and over again. It does not make a difference how reasonable, measured or accurate his comments about the sponsership fraud are from now on: the Liberals can now play the victim and claim that the opposition critics are exagerating the extent of the corruption. It is the 'child porn' gaff all over again.

It is still early in the campaign so it may be long forgotten by the vote comes but the episode does show a disturbing lack of judgement on Harper's part.

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[Riverwind]

Harper did go too far. That said, I think Martin "demanding" an apology is sad.

He will milk it for all it is worth (just like Harper wants to milk Martin's extremely tenuous links to the sponserhip scandal). Harper needs a clever way to disarm it.

[shoop]

No sense disarming a bomb that has already gone off. Best to just let this one fade away and make sure he doesn't repeat the organized crime line again.

He will milk it for all it is worth (just like Harper wants to milk Martin's extremely tenuous links to the sponserhip scandal). Harper needs a clever way to disarm it.

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[August1991]

Harper did go too far. That said, I think Martin "demanding" an apology is sad.

He will milk it for all it is worth (just like Harper wants to milk Martin's extremely tenuous links to the sponserhip scandal). Harper needs a clever way to disarm it.

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Sparhawk, you ignore the fact that Harper's accusation has brought the sponsorship scandal back into the public spotlight. The Liberals want to divert everybody's attention with this orgy of spending promises.

[shoop]

Good point, but Harper's communications team has to get better with the talking points. That was clearly a comment that shouldn't have been included.

Sparhawk, you ignore the fact that Harper's accusation has brought the sponsorship scandal back into the public spotlight.  The Liberals want to divert everybody's attention with this orgy of spending promises.

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[fellowtraveller]

This thread reads like a Liberal Party election primer.

Let the bedwetting begin .

[Riverwind]

Sparhawk, you ignore the fact that Harper's accusation has brought the sponsorship scandal back into the public spotlight.  The Liberals want to divert everybody's attention with this orgy of spending promises.

Most good captains know that if they need to get dirty in the corners they send in a goon - they don't do it themselves. Harper is running to be Prime Minister of the country and, as a result, he must sound like one. Over the top rhetoric will hurt him more than it helps.

[August1991]

Sparhawk, you ignore the fact that Harper's accusation has brought the sponsorship scandal back into the public spotlight.  The Liberals want to divert everybody's attention with this orgy of spending promises.

Most good captains know that if they need to get dirty in the corners they send in a goon - they don't do it themselves. Harper is running to be Prime Minister of the country and, as a result, he must sound like one. Over the top rhetoric will hurt him more than it helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Organized crime attracts attention. And the photo ops look ugly. Martin looks criminal. He does.

Play by the sword, die by the sword.

[Riverwind]

Organized crime attracts attention.  And the photo ops look ugly.  Martin looks criminal. He does.

My point is he has 98 other MPs who could have stood up and said the same thing and it would have attracted the same media attention. He did not need to do it.

[Yaro]

Actually, it was a horrible mistake and not apologizing exasperates the situation considerably.

The fact of the matter is that if it wasn't said on the floor of the house Harper would be getting his ass kicked in the courts about a week and a half before the election. In addition even though this statement isn't actionable in and of itself it can be used in court to show a precedent of slander. For the rest of the run up to the election the conservatives won't be able to say anything close to that again without serious risk.

It’s the exact kind of stupid rhetoric that displays for the entire country just how big an idiot Harper is. God the conservatives need a new leader.

[August1991]

Organized crime attracts attention.  And the photo ops look ugly.  Martin looks criminal. He does.

My point is he has 98 other MPs who could have stood up and said the same thing and it would have attracted the same media attention. He did not need to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't understand politics and the media in Canada.

Harper had this chance to get attention and he used it wisely.

[shoop]

I personally don't think it was a smart thing to say. That being said he has done everything right since then. It wasn't that bad a thing to say and apologizing would have made Harper look like Martin's b*tch. Better to let it slowly fade away, which it appears to have done...

You don't understand politics and the media in Canada.

Harper had this chance to get attention and he used it wisely.

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[Canuck E Stan]

Harper has managed to get the attention towards the $40 million that no one seems to know where it went.

That's a lot of money that's unaccountable by the Liberals.

I'm sure everyone is asking the same question now. Where DID the $40 million go?

If it can't be accountable by the Liberals what does that say about how they run the government.

All this last minute spending doesn't help the Liberal cause either as shown in the polls.

[shoop]

All the spending promises help the Conservatives. When they offer deeper tax cuts - the Liberals will ask "Where is the money coming from?" The easy answer, by cancelling your pre-election shopping spree....

Harper has managed to get the attention towards the $40 million that no one seems to know where it went.

That's a lot of money that's unaccountable by the Liberals.

I'm sure everyone is asking the same question now. Where DID the $40 million go?

If it can't be accountable by the Liberals what does that say about how they run the government.

All this last minute spending doesn't help the Liberal cause either as shown in the polls.

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[theloniusfleabag]

Dear shoop,

Klein never said that Harper was unfit to run the country. He was asked if thought Harper was going to win, and he said no.

Nice try, yet another lie from a Liberal.

You are correct, I should have used different wording, but you are incorrect also, for I am not a 'Liberal'. I would actually like to see a conservative government, but I have two major problems. Firstly and most importantly, I do not see Harper as fit to govern the nation, as his most recent actions would indicate. Second, the Conservative candidate in my riding isn't one I could be bothered to toss a heavy rock to if he were drowning.

What I should have said regarding Klein's actions might have been..."Ralphiwe seems intent on sabotaging the CPC party and I think this clearly shows he has no faith in Harper" (and by showing it publicly he seems to be tring to influence the rest of us). Why did Ralphie say something like "Harper is the man to lead the nation.", or "Canada needs or would do well with a Conservative gov't"? Instead, he said something that is basically detrimental to his own party's national standing.

I believe that Ralphie deeply wishes that Harper NOT run the country, and that is another thing that worries me.

If Peter Mackay were to assume leadership, I think it would be a positive thing for the CPC and Canada. There are others, to be sure, but Harper's playground level slander cannot help the party, especially when there should be enough ammo to sink the Liberal ship without resorting to 'gutterpress'.