Why would anyone vote for a right wing politician in any state or nationally.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

Big difference between a candidate for POTUS inciting violence for holding a tomato, and a bunch of justifiably aggrieved minorities seeking JUSTICE.

ok you had me until this here. Riots are NOT justice they are crimes. Rioting to try and get justice proves the people you are rioting against right when they say "blank is a bunch of criminals" Rioting is why the moderates have little to no sympathy when injustice happens. Peaceful protest are one thing and CONSTITUTIONALLY protected. Riots are crimes that more often than not tear up the neighborhoods of those rioting.

[robosmith]

7 hours ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

ok you had me until this here. Riots are NOT justice they are crimes. Rioting to try and get justice proves the people you are rioting against right when they say "blank is a bunch of criminals" Rioting is why the moderates have little to no sympathy when injustice happens. Peaceful protest are one thing and CONSTITUTIONALLY protected. Riots are crimes that more often than not tear up the neighborhoods of those rioting.

Do you know what racial justice situation was before the early '60s race riots? Jim Crow was rampant.

Those riots were the root of PROGRESS. Change was forced by exacting a COST.

When injustice persists for decades, sometimes that is the only solution.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Do you know what racial justice situation was before the early '60s race riots? Jim Crow was rampant.

Those riots were the root of PROGRESS. Change was forced by exacting a COST.

When injustice persists for decades, sometimes that is the only solution.

If want a revolution in the United States you might want to rethink that Riots are a Crime period FACT. 

Also a fact who has the most guns, I personally would rather NOT go back to the 1950's.

Civil right movement done peacefully take time and patience, you other option is revolution. See above. 

There will NEVER be in my OPINION a good reason to riot when a peaceful protest gets a lot more done. Just ask Dr. King.

[robosmith]

14 hours ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

If want a revolution in the United States you might want to rethink that Riots are a Crime period FACT. 

Also a fact who has the most guns, I personally would rather NOT go back to the 1950's.

Civil right movement done peacefully take time and patience, you other option is revolution. See above. 

There will NEVER be in my OPINION a good reason to riot when a peaceful protest gets a lot more done. Just ask Dr. King.

Can't ask King cause he's dead. His nonviolence didn't work so well for HIM.

Only cons want to go back to the 1950's. The rest of us need to stop them.

Some riots are just a crime. Others produce PROGRESS, too, like those in the early '60s which CATALYZED CHANGE and the END OF JIM CROW.

That is a FACT. Deal with it.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

12 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Can't ask King cause he's dead. His nonviolence didn't work so well for HIM.

Only cons want to go back to the 1950's. The rest of us need to stop them.

Some riots are just a crime. Others produce PROGRESS, too, like those in the early '60s which CATALYZED CHANGE and the END OF JIM CROW.

That is a FACT. Deal with it.

a Riot is a crime carried out by criminals and the 60's riots pushed more white people away while Dr. King and his peaceful protest had white folks marching with him.

[robosmith]

Just now, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

a Riot is a crime carried out by criminals and the 60's riots pushed more white people away while Dr. King and his peaceful protest had white folks marching with him.

The riots catalyzed long needed CHANGE. I doubt you were even alive then.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

4 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The riots catalyzed long needed CHANGE. I doubt you were even alive then.

Were you? I will admit no I was not but my parents were, they taught about that time and while they denounced the riots, and even said that they were inevitable. They taught me Dr. King's philosophy about bringing about change. And yeah it did work for him over 50 years later and the man is still respected, and admired and held up as an example of a good human being. Or at least his teachings are. 

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

Also you will once again notice that I am not disputing your take that the riots were the catalyst for the needed change. I am and will maintaining riots are crimes and therefore do more harm than good.

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Were you? I will admit no I was not but my parents were, they taught about that time and while they denounced the riots, and even said that they were inevitable. They taught me Dr. King's philosophy about bringing about change. And yeah it did work for him over 50 years later and the man is still respected, and admired and held up as an example of a good human being. Or at least his teachings are. 

Yes, I watched the Watts riot coverage on TV, so I am familiar with the PROGRESS in the aftermath. 

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Also you will once again notice that I am not disputing your take that the riots were the catalyst for the needed change. I am and will maintaining riots are crimes and therefore do more harm than good.

They harmed the community, sure. But when injustice has festered for so long, something had to be done.

Patience is NOT a virtue when fighting true injustice.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

29 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Patience is NOT a virtue when fighting true injustice.

We will agree to disagree. I will not convince you and you will not convince me. 

And that is fine, my opinion is that riots are crimes and should not happen. 

Yours is that some of them are not crimes and were necessary. While I don't fully disagree with about The Watts Riots. I cannot condone them because all of the damage happened to the neighborhood and businesses of the people that were trying to get more rights. 

Did it work yes, does that make it right? No not in my opinion.

[robosmith]

25 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

We will agree to disagree. I will not convince you and you will not convince me. 

And that is fine, my opinion is that riots are crimes and should not happen. 

Yours is that some of them are not crimes and were necessary. While I don't fully disagree with about The Watts Riots. I cannot condone them because all of the damage happened to the neighborhood and businesses of the people that were trying to get more rights. 

Did it work yes, does that make it right? No not in my opinion.

I didn't say they weren't crimes, I say they are NOT JUST crimes, cause they served a legitimate purpose.

It's like Thomas Paine: "I only regret I have but one life to give for my country." The British executed him as a criminal.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

I didn't say they weren't crimes, I say they are NOT JUST crimes, cause they served a legitimate purpose.

It's like Thomas Paine: "I only regret I have but one life to give for my country." The British executed him as a criminal.

It was Nathan Hale not Paine. 

Paine is the one that published "Common Sense"

[robosmith]

5 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

It was Nathan Hale not Paine. 

Paine is the one that published "Common Sense"

Well actually it appears that we are both wrong:

Quote

 

Nathan Hale never actually said that. According to MARY J. ORTNER, PH.D. :

"...in the diary of Lt. Robert MacKensie, a British officer in New York at the time. The diary entry was made on the very day of Hale’s execution, September 22, 1776: 'He behaved with great composure and resolution, saying he thought it the duty of every good Officer, to obey any orders given him by his Commander-in-Chief; and desired the Spectators to be at all times prepared to meet death in whatever shape it might appear.'"

http://www.connecticutsar.org/patriots/hale_nathan_2.htm

 

But at least YOU got the folklore right. Congrats.

In my defense, I relied on a google search without clicking on the link.

Edited October 18, 2022 by robosmith

[Rebound]

20 hours ago, robosmith said:

Can't ask King cause he's dead. His nonviolence didn't work so well for HIM.

Only cons want to go back to the 1950's. The rest of us need to stop them.

Some riots are just a crime. Others produce PROGRESS, too, like those in the early '60s which CATALYZED CHANGE and the END OF JIM CROW.

That is a FACT. Deal with it.

I disagree. It was Dr. King’s non-violence which brought about the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Acts.  Had King resorted to violence, those laws would not have been passed.  
 

I support the BLM protests but very strongly condemn the rioting. It is not justified should be prosecuted. Breaking the law through acts of civil disobedience is morally justified, but performing acts of violence is not.  

Edited October 19, 2022 by Rebound

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

I disagree. It was Dr. King’s non-violence which brought about the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Acts.  Had King resorted to violence, those laws would not have been passed.  
 

I support the BLM protests but very strongly condemn the rioting. It is not justified should be prosecuted. Breaking the law through acts of civil disobedience is morally justified, but performing acts of violence is not.  

Sure, King played a significant role, but so did the violent protests which King predicted.

The 1967 Riots: When Outrage Over Racial Injustice Boiled Over

Quote

In what came to be known as the 'long, hot summer,' US cities exploded—more than 150 times—into violent upheaval.

 

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Sure, King played a significant role, but so did the violent protests which King predicted.

The 1967 Riots: When Outrage Over Racial Injustice Boiled Over

 

You do realize we are all saying the same thing, Riots are a crime and bad, however this specific Riot or several Riots depending whether you view as a lot of them or one gigantic one, was justified.

As I said before I wish I could prove you wrong about this one, but I can't. As much as I disagree with it, You are right it was inevitable, it did play a part in the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's. More's the pity. And personally I think the debate over whether it helped or hurt will never end. Personally I think it hurt things, you disagree, I concede you have first hand knowledge having lived through while I am dependent on word of mouth. Therefore perhaps in the grand scheme  of things you opinion carries more weight as someone that "was there". 

In the end we can all agree Riots are bad, and for the most part do more harm than could.

Are some of the inevitable much like these were. Yes,

does that make them right or the go to re action. No. 

That, at least is what I have been trying to articulate to you but obviously failed to do that's on me. But I can't shake the feeling that we are still saying the same thing just from a different angle.

[Rebound]

4 hours ago, robosmith said:

Sure, King played a significant role, but so did the violent protests which King predicted.

The 1967 Riots: When Outrage Over Racial Injustice Boiled Over

 

The Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed in 1964 and 1965. 
 

Personally, I think that nonviolent protests are effective because they convince people that you are deserving of your cause. But violent mobs do the opposite, which is why a Bugaboo Boy was caught murdering an Oakland law enforcement officer during the BLM protests; these far right groups knew that if the BLM protesters were considered murderers, it would damage their cause.