Is it really worth it?

[Kliege]

Canada is hopeless and has been for decades. It is a socialist state with strong pacificist leanings, much like Western Europe(expect Britian). It is strongly anti-American and prides itself on this as much as it does its support for Cuba to which it is very similar in many respects. Like Fidel's fiefdom, it is effectively a one party state which instinctively suppresses the press (the publication ban) and free speech in the interests of imposing a PC sameness on political expression. If the climate was a little warmer, you would see a typical banana republic.

As for another election whats the point?

The Liberals have already calculated that their budget and usual baskets of goodies coupled with their never ending pandering to every 'feel-good' idea in creation will at worst result in another Liberal Minority.

Should that happen(or rather WHEN that happens), they will be able to run things as if they had a majority as no one will have the temerity to bring down the regime a second time, and get hammered for it at the polls.

I loath the liberal government but Canada is really essentially a 'socialist' outpost, and moreover everyone just accepts that ALL politicians are useless and sees no reason to exchange the devil they know(Martin) for a Bush-loving, bible-believing conservative "neandethal". When you think of Canada think France with many less French people,and you will be very close to the mark .

Oh and when all else fails the Liberals can always go directly to the Evil American Empire Card. Always a popular item in the Great White North. Nothing like bashing big and more successful big brother to make them feel better about themselves.

Inertia, propaganda, corruption, un-examined biases, and when all else fails, sheer carelessness. Bet Liberal it's always the 'safe' bet.

Thats the Canadian Way.

[Riverwind]

Canada is hopeless and has been for decades. It is a socialist state with strong pacificist leanings, much like Western Europe(expect Britian).

A typical rant from a right-wing ideologue who has difficultly accepting that other people do not share his views. It is one thing to say: "I disagree with these policies and here is why...". It is simply pathetic to say "Canada is hopeless because I don't agree with the political direction...". The fact is, the country is doing quite well as far as many people are concerned and and it laughable to suggest the country is hopeless just because the politicians currently in charge do not conform to your ideological biases.

Canada is not a socialist state like many in Europe - it more or less follows the Anglo-American model of capitalism with some more socialist policies. Healthcare is the one uniquely Canadian idiosynchrocy that deserves a lot of criticism. However, reform is under way and a lot of the issues will be resolved in next few years no matter what gov't is in charge.

At this point it time, I am getting extremely pissed off at Harper and the conservatives because they seem to be incapable of articulating a vision for the country other than claiming they will be less corrupt than the Liberals. Why on earth did Harper let Martin announces those tax cuts and the productivity agenda first? Harper should have been talking about that first.

An election is coming and Harper is missing in action and allowing the Liberals to waltz back into power. If you care about seeing more right leaning gov't then you should be asking questions about Harper instead of staring at your navel whining about how Canadians won't vote for a party that cannot will not articulate a positive vision for the country.

In fact, I am starting to think that the sponsership scandal was the worst thing that ever happened to the conservatives because it made them lazy - it allowed them to assume that they could sit back do nothing and be voted into power by default. It is clear it is not going to work that way and it may be too late for the conservatives to turn the train wreck around before the Jan election.

[August1991]

Why on earth did Harper let Martin announces those tax cuts and the productivity agenda first? Harper should have been talking about that first.

Harper has talked about such things but nobody in Ontario (or Quebec for that matter) is listening. Harper is the scary guy who is not human.

A typical rant from a right-wing ideologue who has difficultly accepting that other people do not share his views. It is one thing to say: "I disagree with these policies and here is why...". It is simply pathetic to say "Canada is hopeless because I don't agree with the political direction...".

You dismiss the rant too quickly. There is something wrong in Canada and the signs are there to see.

One sign? All of our successful PMs in the past 40 years have come from Quebec.

[shoop]

There is a big thing between putting forth an agenda and having the 'establishment' tell the public you have put forth an agenda.

The Conservatives have laid out their agenda time and again. It is all here. www.conservatives.ca

If the media failed to cover Chrétien's fabled Red Book in 1993, maybe Kim Campbell would have been more than a footnote in history. (Heaven help us...)

[Riverwind]

If the media failed to cover Chrétien's fabled Red Book in 1993, maybe Kim Campbell would have been more than a footnote in history. (Heaven help us...)

You must admit that the 'Red Book' was quite a successful marketing and branding exercise. The conservatives are like those geeky engineering types: smart guys who can build wonderful gadgets but don't have the marketing savvy to capture the public's imagination.

[Canuck E Stan]

You must admit that the 'Red Book' was quite a successful marketing and branding exercise. The conservatives are like those geeky engineering types: smart guys who can build wonderful gadgets but don't have the marketing savvy to capture the public's imagination.

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Better a gadget that works,than a promise from a glitzy book that doesn't.Twelve years and waiting...

[tml12]

You must admit that the 'Red Book' was quite a successful marketing and branding exercise. The conservatives are like those geeky engineering types: smart guys who can build wonderful gadgets but don't have the marketing savvy to capture the public's imagination.

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Better a gadget that works,than a promise from a glitzy book that doesn't.Twelve years and waiting...

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Yeah. Is it a surprise that Martin isn't using it anymore?

[shoop]

All I gotta admit is you have the simplistic knowledge of building brand identity that most political pundits in Canada do. Stand by my statement that the Liberals got incredible help winning the campaign in 1993, granted the PCs went out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot.

You must admit that the 'Red Book' was quite a successful marketing and branding exercise. The conservatives are like those geeky engineering types: smart guys who can build wonderful gadgets but don't have the marketing savvy to capture the public's imagination.

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[sharkman]

To the question of why Harper hasn't been more forthcoming on his budget plans, I offer you this: If the CPC openly trot out their plans they expose themselves to the risk that Martin will take one or more main components of said plan, bastardize it, and call it his own, all done simply to get elected. Which is a switch from the traditional approach of hysterically shrieking that it will be the ruin of Canada. Closer to the election the CPC may be more revealing.

I agree with Kliege on many of his points. We are not a democracy. The PM gets elected, then can actually do whatever he feels like, with no repercussions. The thing is the majority have been level headed, with only a gradual slide into social engineering and socialism in general, instead of the immediate change that a communist government would bring. So we don't notice the change.

[Canuck E Stan]

What I remember from the last election was Harper stating his spending plans to the publicand the media and the Liberals-especially Ralph Goodale saying "Where is he going to get the money to do that?"

Looks like Goodale managed to find it all in time for this election.

I wouldn't worry so much about what the Conservatives aren't telling us about their plans right now,as much as what the Liberals aren't telling us and what they don't want us to find out if another party gets to run the government.

[Riverwind]

Come on guys. Listen to yourselves:

"The media is biased..."

"The voters aren't listening..."

"The big bad Liberals will steal our ideas..."

"The country is no longer a democracy..."

These all sound like excuses from a welfare bum who does not want get off the couch to look for work. The Conservatives are supposed to be the "no-excuses-pull-yourself-up-by-your-boot-straps" party. What happened?

All I gotta admit is you have the simplistic knowledge of building brand identity that most political pundits in Canada do.

I bite, what have the Conservatives done to build their "brand" in time for this election? I have heard nice words about integrity in gov't but you can't run a government only on 'integrity' - you need ideas that address problems that are of more immediate concern to Canadians. And the Liberals seem to grabbing the important ones.

[shoop]

Actually, Harper has been stealing a page out of Chretien's book 2 months to 6 months out from the 1993 election.

He has let the governing party hog the national spotlight in a series of, seemingly endless gaffes, while working the grassroots, energizing local campaigns and getting tons of ink locally throughout the country.

What gaffes you say?

"We can't offend religious sensibilities during an election!" Nice try Paul, you can't pick *ANY* date in 2006 where a campaign wouldn't overlap some religious holiday.

"An opposition motion to schedule a date for an election three months in advance is *UNPRECEDENTED*!" So was a Prime Minister appearing on primetime to beg for another eight months to govern, but you did it anways!

"There can't be a major meeting of international heads of state during an election." But Paul, you called the 2004 election with an international forum you went to in the middle of the campaign. What has changed?

"Fitty cent shouldn't be allowed in Canada because he promotes gun violence." Thank you Dan McTeague, that has gotta be one of the most idiotic things a lifetime backbencher could say within a week of an election being called.

"We are sorry *BAD* members of our party got caught stealing $1.14 Million of taxpayers money. We will pay it back!" From the rumour about the LPCs finances it is a good thing they didn't get caught stealing $10 Million, they probably wouldn't have enough money for it.

Welcome to the PMO Mr. Harper.

All I gotta admit is you have the simplistic knowledge of building brand identity that most political pundits in Canada do.

I bite, what have the Conservatives done to build their "brand" in time for this election? I have heard nice words about integrity in gov't but you can't run a government only on 'integrity' - you need ideas that address problems that are of more immediate concern to Canadians. And the Liberals seem to grabbing the important ones.

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[Riverwind]

He has let the governing party hog the national spotlight in a series of, seemingly endless gaffes, while working the grassroots, energizing local campaigns and getting tons of ink locally throughout the country.

We will know the truth of the matter soon enough. I still think it would have been better for Harper to come out with some ideas through the fall.

[fellowtraveller]

"We are sorry *BAD* members of our party got caught stealing $1.14 Million of taxpayers money. We will pay it back!" From the rumour about the LPCs finances it is a good thing they didn't get caught stealing $10 Million, they probably wouldn't have enough money for it. 

Since when do the criminals get to decide how much they stole and how/when they get to give it back? Soembody explain how a chronically broke Quebec Liberal Party leader like Paul Martin could not have personal knowledge of bags of cash arriving in the Party accounts?

Where is the criminal investigation of the theft of a LOT of my money?

[shoop]

He has! There have been a series of releases.

Check them out. www.conservatives.ca

Also an advantage to governing, their new policies are guaranteed to get more ink than an opposition proposal.

We will know the truth of the matter soon enough. I still think it would have been better for Harper to come out with some ideas through the fall.

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[Yaro]

You must admit that the 'Red Book' was quite a successful marketing and branding exercise. The conservatives are like those geeky engineering types: smart guys who can build wonderful gadgets but don't have the marketing savvy to capture the public's imagination.

Actually the exact opposite is true, I don't know if there is a group that has done as much economic damage to a region in the history of the planet as the North American conservative movement has done in the last 30 years. I certainly can't think of a single example of a region with the kind of massive resource advantage that Canada in particular has had that has seen living standards drop.

Harper has talked about such things but nobody in Ontario (or Quebec for that matter) is listening. Harper is the scary guy who is not human.

Ah yes, the productivity agenda, the new mindless buzzword. As soon as someone can explain to me why they expect wages to rise in the future in parallel when for the last 25 years the relationship between the two has been the inverse we may actually be able to have a discussion over such a ridiculous notion (and yes I understand the underlying reasons, but quite frankly don't care to point it out unless someone else does as well or at least has an idea).

To the question of why Harper hasn't been more forthcoming on his budget plans, I offer you this: If the CPC openly trot out their plans they expose themselves to the risk that Martin will take one or more main components of said plan, bastardize it, and call it his own, all done simply to get elected. Which is a switch from the traditional approach of hysterically shrieking that it will be the ruin of Canada. Closer to the election the CPC may be more revealing.

OMG, it’s the great Satan, imagine that a party that will include opposition ideas which they consider to be good... WTF is wrong with you people?

I agree with Kliege on many of his points. We are not a democracy. The PM gets elected, then can actually do whatever he feels like, with no repercussions. The thing is the majority have been level headed, with only a gradual slide into social engineering and socialism in general, instead of the immediate change that a communist government would bring. So we don't notice the change.

Perhaps we have a different definition of democracy, and communism? Perhaps someone will explain to me someday how communism and democracy are mutually exclusive?

What I remember from the last election was Harper stating his spending plans to the public and the media and the Liberals-especially Ralph Goodale saying "Where is he going to get the money to do that?"

Of course the difference was that the conservatives were budgeting for 60 billion in surplus and the liberals for 40 billion. Where did the budget surplus come in? Somewhere in the middle, so what would have happened? Oh ya the conservatives in there first budget would have had the country back in debt.

"An opposition motion to schedule a date for an election three months in advance is *UNPRECEDENTED*!" So was a Prime Minister appearing on primetime to beg for another eight months to govern, but you did it anways!

The PM didn't beg for anything, he stated his intentions. Not that its at all relevant, why anyone would not want to give 30 days after the Gomery report for the parties to beat each other up over implementing the recommendations instead of doing it right before so that whatever party gets in can safely ignore it all together isn't a very bright person quite frankly.

"Fitty cent shouldn't be allowed in Canada because he promotes gun violence." Thank you Dan McTeague, that has gotta be one of the most idiotic things a lifetime backbencher could say within a week of an election being called.

I agree, the bend towards supression of free speech in Canada has been disturbing over the last 20 years. This was moronic.

[shoop]

Are you reallly that arrogant?

If we don't agree with the LPCs proposed timing for the election we aren't "bright"?

That is the kind of ignorance that will turn off the population like 1984. Thanks.

The PM didn't beg for anything, he stated his intentions. Not that its at all relevant, why anyone would not want to give 30 days after the Gomery report for the parties to beat each other up over implementing the recommendations instead of doing it right before so that whatever party gets in can safely ignore it all together isn't a very bright person quite frankly.

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[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Yaro,

Perhaps someone will explain to me someday how communism and democracy are mutually exclusive?

They are not mutually exclusive, really. It really depends, mind you, on which definition of 'communism' you use. Most people do immediately think of the 'Marxism-Bastardized-By-Lenin form' though, I'll have to admit.

"Fitty cent shouldn't be allowed in Canada because he promotes gun violence." Thank you Dan McTeague, that has gotta be one of the most idiotic things a lifetime backbencher could say within a week of an election being called.

I agree, the bend towards supression of free speech in Canada has been disturbing over the last 20 years. This was moronic.

I personally have no problem with banning the likes of US rappers, especially if they glorify and encourage violence. Just as I would have no problem banning a radical Muslim Cleric preaching 'jihad' on the streets of Toronto.

[Leafless]

Kliege

You wrote- " Canada is hopeless and has been for decades."

I agree Canada is on a socialist downward slide and will be without any hope of ever recovering to a country dominated by Conservative ideologies.

What ruined this country I beleive is Pierre Trudeau's Charter making it easy picking for socialist based policies and has created a non-friendly Conservative enviroment. I fully believe the country is headed for a break up because of this.

Even Mr. Trudeau's former wife Margaret just beat a drunk driving charge directly using her late husbands Charter.

Let's hear more personal views on the subject of this post rather than continually comment on someone elses thoughts with quotes.

[Guest eureka]

Communism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. A one party state can also be a democracy - it is one of the six types of democracy identified by Professor Macpherson in his Massey Lectures. The criterion is the extent of participation in the party.

The initial Soviet regime was known as a Vanguard democracy since most of the class that would have, or could have, participated, was involved.

The degeneration does not invalidate the possibility of democracy. It merely shows that one party democracy can slide more easily into something else: something that democracies have also experienced.

[shoop]

Where does it stop? Where do you step in and tell me what I can listen to?

The analoby between the cleric and the rapper is sad and pathetic. Like most of the Liberals reasons for not agreeing to the NDs original motion.

I personally have no problem with banning the likes of US rappers, especially if they glorify and encourage violence. Just as I would have no problem banning a radical Muslim Cleric preaching 'jihad' on the streets of Toronto.

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[Riverwind]

Where does it stop? Where do you step in and tell me what I can listen to?

This is not just about music and guns: this guy actively promotes a lifestyle of crime as way to get ahead in the world. The movie 'Get Rich or Die Trying' is based on his life. The comparison to Muslim Clerics _is_ appropriate - both seek to encourage young people to engage in extremely anti social behavoir.

[shoop]

Wow, what terrible paternalism.

Is "encouraging people to engage in extremely anti-social behaviour" really enough to get people banned from coming into the country?

We all know that excessive playing of video games can lead to extremely anti-social behaviour. Does that mean that Bill Gates should be banned from Canada because Microsoft sells the X-box?

Don't get the logic? Neither do I! Try and use something a little more defensible than "extremely anti-social behaviour."

Wow the Liberals are certainly in trouble...

This is not just about music and guns: this guy actively promotes a lifestyle of crime as way to get ahead in the world. The movie 'Get Rich or Die Trying' is based on his life. The comparison to Muslim Clerics _is_ appropriate - both seek to encourage young people to engage in extremely anti social behavoir.

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[Riverwind]

Is "encouraging people to engage in extremely anti-social behaviour" really enough to get people banned from coming into the country?

I was assuming that you would have no problem banning a radical muslim cleric. Do you also agree that muslim radicals should be allowed into the country to freely express their views?

IMV, anyone who glorifies crime is worse than a radical muslim.

[Leafless]

Eureka

You wrote- " The degeneration does not invalidate the possibility of a democracy. It merely shows that a one Party democracy can slide into something that democracies have also experienced."

Can you name me one other country in the world in modern times that Canada is expericing without the propect of a revolution??