Mandatory universal vaccination

[myata]

No blank; uniform; unconditional and indefinite restrictions of citizens freedoms without oversight and due process. Not in any context, under any pretext and in any circumstance. Any restriction or limitation of citizen's freedoms has to be argumented and defended in some and proper form and forum (and yes, now that there's a precedent we, citizens, will need to define the forms and the forum).

The alternative is to sit back and wait that it'll figure itself out somehow, anyhow. Yes, residential schools is a fine example. We can tie ribbons and post pictures in profiles now, the problem with that is that the time to act to change anything was a hundred years back. Same thing, same result: see; know; understand; demand responsibility; and citizen's control. And this is what happened if we wouldn't. And there's no promises and guarantees that the next time around it'll end with pictures and ribbons.

[myata]

I reflected some more on this question and two considerations let me to the decision that I'm comfortable with. First, if vaccination amounted to return to full or almost full normal (I could accept some reduction of capacity and mandatory masks in really constrained spaces, like ER - maybe not a bad idea at all times) I could see it as a possible deal. Safety for normality, OK at least there's a ground for conversation.

That is not what is happening here. There's no return to normal normality only to last year's quasi normal in exchange for this new thing, the code. Last year you had the mask in a restaurant; this year show the code plus the mask in a restaurant. Aka, sliding scale and moving ladder. Donkey and a carrot stick. OK, got it. And what would you be asked to do next year, for today's normal? Good question but nobody's talking.

And the next is, what are the terms and conditions, the small print? Where can see I it and where to take it in case of issues? What, sign up now, without time limits and conditions and will figure it out in the next while... indefinitely... forever? Sorry I wouldn't buy a vacuum clear like that. And no it cannot be a matter of trust. See, trust has to be earned and kept, not claimed for granted and yes by anybody including whatever office, no automatically assumed and taken for granted trust. And the time for the trust is past in this case.

[Galloway]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:42 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

 

the Covid Doom Cult

What is that?  It sounds like it must be a very scary bogeyman indeed..

[Yzermandius19]

10 hours ago, Galloway said:

What is that?  It sounds like it must be a very scary bogeyman indeed..

the people who think covid is so dangerous that all your rights must be taken away and support the authoritarian crackdowns used to do that

Edited September 8, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[myata]

The data for 2020 was posted earlier. Out of more than 200 thousand toll attributed to different factors, Covid represented about 7%, and that included vulnerable population with the risk of 95 times higher, and cases with accompanying conditions. There reach and severity of restrictions faced by the public due to Covid has no precedent. It would be a curios case for future students to study and comment on governments with no accountability offloading its direct responsibility to prepare for extraordinary events with due diligence and protect vulnerable population, both patently failed, to the general population as a scapegoat for bureaucratic inaction and ineptitude. Except it would hardly be anything new to the students, starting with residential schools and by this period in the country's they could be seriously bored. Maybe you could just fast forward to the first and single case where massive government mishandling or debacle was detected and stopped in the process, rather than decades later?

[myata]

The problem is not with the vaccines but how these decisions are made. Think of it, everybody knows that the effect of the vaccines is not infinite and they may begin waning soon. How soon? The terms like six to eight months were mentioned in the literature. And that means that for a significant part of the vaccinated population the protection may begin expiring already by end of the year. 

Now, with the obvious reality that eliminating the infection by end of the year looks extremely unlikely to right impossible. And that brings up an obvious question: what next, for mandatory or almost, vaccinations?

OK the question is one thing, but who is talking about it, evaluating the evidence, possible risks and downsides, discussing options and alternatives, the balance for the society? Is it, yet again, going to be an anonymous bureaucrat in a somewhere office? Like "travel from Wuhan"? Like residential schools, who was talking about them, asking for the evidence etc, not putting out cuddly signs, and one hundred years ago, when it could actually change something?

[myata]

This is not an intelligent designer or resurrect the dead discussion. If it isn't relevant or wanted it can be removed.

Edited December 6, 2021 by myata

[myata]

Another essential issue

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by myata