New World Disorder Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 I am completely opposed to defacing and destroying any of these monuments. I feel that if they need to be removed, then sure, do it in a proper manner. A museum should be built and all of those monuments can then be placed in it. It's a scenario of, if history is not learned, then there is the risk of repeating it. These monuments, like it or not, are part of US history, right or wrong. The idiots tearing these down these things need to step back and really think about what the implications of those actions. The mob mentality kicked in and I understand a Ghandi statue was defaced. Really? A Ghandi statue? There is a reason for the holocaust museum. So no one forgets the horrors of the past. The same should be done here. Quote
eyeball Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 3 hours ago, New World Disorder said: ...if history is not learned, then there is the risk of repeating it. These monuments, like it or not, are part of US history, right or wrong. This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment. Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
New World Disorder Posted June 21, 2020 Author Report Posted June 21, 2020 8 hours ago, eyeball said: This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment. Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past. I propose that Mount Rushmore gets blown up then. Quote
Guest Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 It depends what you mean by tearing down statues. It depends on how one feels about mobs, of any stripe. How would you feel if a couple of PETA activists decided salmon were endangered and sank your boat? I can see the removal of statues based on consensus decided by the population and enacted by government, at any level. I might not agree with it, but I disagree with most of what governments do so that wouldn't be a big deal. I can see it in victory. (I can't imagine the Soviets leaving the Swastika on top of the Reichstag when they took Berlin in 1945) I just can't see a mob of nutjobs speaking for everybody with orgasmic acts of vandalism. Quote
Guest Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, eyeball said: This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment. Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past. It depends what you mean by tearing down statues. It depends on how one feels about mobs, of any stripe. How would you feel if a couple of PETA activists decided salmon were endangered and sank your boat? I can see the removal of statues based on consensus decided by the population and enacted by government, at any level. I might not agree with it, but I disagree with most of what governments do so that wouldn't be a big deal. I can see it in victory. (I couldn't imagine the Allies leaving Swastikas on top of buildings when they overran Germany in 1945) I just can't see a mob of nutjobs speaking for everybody with orgasmic acts of vandalism. Edited June 22, 2020 by bcsapper Wrong building - go figure Quote
eyeball Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, New World Disorder said: I propose that Mount Rushmore gets blown up then. I propose a better solution might be to defuse the anger acknowledge it's legitimacy and take strong visible action to mitigate it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, bcsapper said: It depends what you mean by tearing down statues. It depends on how one feels about mobs, of any stripe. How would you feel if a couple of PETA activists decided salmon were endangered and sank your boat? It depends on what you mean by mob. If I was on my boat and a swarm of speedboats attacked me I suspect I'd be a little pissed off and probably a little scared. It also depends on what you mean by salmon, there are 5 wild species and 1 introduced farm species. If PETA decided wild salmon endangerment was now an issue in addition to ethics they'd be better off focusing on salmon farms, there's hardly enough commercial boats worth going after they're disappearing so fast. These days activists educate consumers and lobby restaurants and the retail food industry to stop buying and serving wild chinook salmon for example due to starving Southern Resident orca who can't finding enough to sustain their population. In any case my old commercial boat is not a statue its on the bottom so how much farther do you think it can be torn down? The rigging finally disappeared from sight almost 10 years ago now. Edited June 21, 2020 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
New World Disorder Posted June 21, 2020 Author Report Posted June 21, 2020 28 minutes ago, eyeball said: I propose a better solution might be to defuse the anger acknowledge it's legitimacy and take strong visible action to mitigate it. It is a better solution than defacing monuments. But if you have no affinity to any of the current statues and monuments, then maybe Mount Rushmore being defaced would be welcomed by these people. Quote
Guest Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, eyeball said: It depends on what you mean by mob. If I was on my boat and a swarm of speedboats attacked me I suspect I'd be a little pissed off and probably a little scared. It also depends on what you mean by salmon, there are 5 wild species and 1 introduced farm species. If PETA decided wild salmon endangerment was now an issue in addition to ethics they'd be better off focusing on salmon farms, there's hardly enough commercial boats worth going after they're disappearing so fast. These days activists educate consumers and lobby restaurants and the retail food industry to stop buying and serving wild chinook salmon for example due to starving Southern Resident orca who can't finding enough to sustain their population. In any case my old commercial boat is not a statue its on the bottom so how much farther do you think it can be torn down? The rigging finally disappeared from sight almost 10 years ago now. Shame about your boat. I think the point you made about focus is well made. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and now I see Ghandi and even Stevie Ray Vaughn have been vandalized. This isn't about slavery or BLM anymore, It's about remaking the USA into something else. P.S - The statue of Valdimir Lenin in Seattle hasn't been touched Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Infidel Dog Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: This isn't about slavery or BLM anymore, True...but are you certain it ever was? Quote
Guest Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hal 9000 said: Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and now I see Ghandi and even Stevie Ray Vaughn have been vandalized. This isn't about slavery or BLM anymore, It's about remaking the USA into something else. P.S - The statue of Valdimir Lenin in Seattle hasn't been touched Stevie Ray Vaughan!! What did he do? Cultural appropriation? Should I stop listening, for fear of being denounced? Edited June 21, 2020 by bcsapper Quote
Hal 9000 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said: True...but are you certain it ever was? No, BLM has been a shield...that's all they ever were for the marxist group. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Michael Hardner Posted June 21, 2020 Report Posted June 21, 2020 15 hours ago, eyeball said: This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment. Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past. This logic also comes from the same types of people who blacklisted folks that taught Marxism in the mid-20th century. True conservatives like me, luckily, will protect the marketplace of ideas. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
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