French Patriot Posted May 11, 2020 Report Share Posted May 11, 2020 Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh? I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus seems unaware that he was God. What did Jesus mean by forsaken? The usual definition means abandoned or deserted. How can one abandon or desert themselves? If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh? Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him? Further. Jesus also said that he and god were one, yet scriptures seem to show Jesus as Yahweh’s good side and Yahweh as the evil side. If Jesus/Yahweh shared the some consciousness, which they would have to given that there is only one god in Christianity, why are they so different? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 Maybe he was speaking on behalf of humanity. Like saying, "Dude, little help." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted May 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 11 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Maybe he was speaking on behalf of humanity. Like saying, "Dude, little help." Jesus using the term, "me", speaks against your view. If he meant us, he would more than likely say, "us". Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 On 5/12/2020 at 10:33 AM, French Patriot said: Jesus using the term, "me", speaks against your view. If he meant us, he would more than likely say, "us". Regards DL I don't know if that word is the real word. Jesus spoke a different language, and also, the whole history of the gospels was not written down until years later, preserved only by oral tradition. Then comes translation errors. then comes Constantine. Sometimes those Greek characters are like just a few scratches on a rock, and from that we build a whole sentence. Or make that a sentance, if it helps.. Also I googled that phrase, it's the opening of a psalm. I'm no scholar, I don't generally research these things but I understand and appreciate those who do. For example I heard long ago, Jesus was speaking in parables and prayed and recited psalms while he was on the cross. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted May 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 13 hours ago, OftenWrong said: I don't know if that word is the real word. Jesus spoke a different language, and also, the whole history of the gospels was not written down until years later, preserved only by oral tradition. Then comes translation errors. then comes Constantine. Sometimes those Greek characters are like just a few scratches on a rock, and from that we build a whole sentence. Or make that a sentance, if it helps.. Also I googled that phrase, it's the opening of a psalm. I'm no scholar, I don't generally research these things but I understand and appreciate those who do. For example I heard long ago, Jesus was speaking in parables and prayed and recited psalms while he was on the cross. I am not a literal reader of the myth and recognize that Jesus spoke mostly I parables for the simple audience he addressed. That aside. I am inviting literalists to explain the words the scribes and those who control the religious holy books put into Jesus' mouth. It never happened in reality from what we can know, but literalists don't recognize that fact. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 3:45 PM, French Patriot said: If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh? Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him? To start the entire premise for your thread is that what you read in the New Testament was written in a verified manuscript you can rely on as written. I would question that and state you do not know the original script and the Bible you read is not the originally recorded words but has been repeated after repeat editing which is precisely states why it says "according to.....". Next, what "poor reputation" of God claim do you assign to " all the Jews" and what repeated attempts to kill Jesus do you assign to "all the Jews"? What evidence do you have for attributing to "all the Jews" culpability for slandering God let alone repeatedly trying to kill Jesus? Is that your Christian belief that you have been taught to blame "all the Jews" for repeatedly trying to kill Jesus, bad-mouthing God, and anything else? Next if you believe the New Testament is a literal work of writing then why ask people for their opinion of it? Your questions not only stereotype in a negative way all Jews but presume the words you question have specific meaning which leads you then to make conclusions you did about your confusion as to them. So are you preaching or making a sermon posed as questions Are you seeking to discuss or is this an attempt to proselytize? Finally let me make this clear, if you use the New Testament as justification to assign group blame to Jews I have been there done that. Next, don't ask questions if your true intent is to proselytize, its dishonest. If your true agenda is to preach don't pose as wanting discussion and if you preach group smears against Jews I will challenge you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 On 5/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, Rue said: why it says "according to.....". I don't care how authentic it is as this is the book Christians are using. I know that it is a plagiarized and translation of another translation. That makes no difference to literalists readers whom I target when using literal themes. On 5/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, Rue said: Next, what "poor reputation" of God claim do you assign to " all the Jews" and what repeated attempts to kill Jesus do you assign to "all the Jews"? What evidence do you have for attributing to "all the Jews" culpability for slandering God let alone repeatedly trying to kill Jesus? Red herring. There is no such thing as all when speaking of diverse groups of people. Jews go from atheist to brain dead literalists. I could and perhaps should have said the moral Jews. On 5/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, Rue said: On 5/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, Rue said: Is that your Christian belief that you have been taught to blame "all the Jews" for repeatedly trying to kill Jesus, bad-mouthing God, and anything else? I am not a Christian. Are you denying that Jesus had to run from Jews more than once because they threatened to stone him? On 5/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, Rue said: Finally let me make this clear, if you use the New Testament as justification to assign group blame to Jews I have been there done that. Then you be fool. As to this "Next, don't ask questions if your true intent is to proselytize, its dishonest. If your true agenda is to preach don't pose as wanting discussion and if you preach group smears against Jews I will challenge you." I go wherever the talk takes me. As to all this personal garbage. Don't do it again. Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 23, 2020 Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) On 5/28/2020 at 5:05 PM, French Patriot said: I don't care how authentic it is as this is the book Christians are using. I know that it is a plagiarized and translation of another translation. That makes no difference to literalists readers whom I target when using literal themes. Red herring. There is no such thing as all when speaking of diverse groups of people. Jews go from atheist to brain dead literalists. I could and perhaps should have said the moral Jews. I am not a Christian. Are you denying that Jesus had to run from Jews more than once because they threatened to stone him? Then you be fool. As to this "Next, don't ask questions if your true intent is to proselytize, its dishonest. If your true agenda is to preach don't pose as wanting discussion and if you preach group smears against Jews I will challenge you." I go wherever the talk takes me. As to all this personal garbage. Don't do it again. Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Regards DL I took awhile to respond because I had more pressing issues. I am calling your threads out as thinly veiled attempts to proselytize people to you specific views of Christianity and now specifically wish to challenge specific words of yours in response to me on this thread. 1-You stated: "I go wherever the talk takes me". So do I and every other person on this forum. 2. You stated: "As to all this personal garbage." Yes what about your personal garbage. You stated: "I could and perhaps should have said the moral Jews. " Those words continue your references to Jews in this thread. In the above response I argue you show that you believe you can write history to define any Jew as immoral who does not accept Jesus as the son of God. That is personal garbage you brought to this forum and I call you out on it. My beliefs or anyone's beliefs are NOT immoral because you do not agree with how we define anyone or any concept. 3. Next you stated: "Don't do it again." Do what...challenge as I have your collective references to Jews as immoral? What is that a threat? What will you do if I continue to challenge your words? Let me make it clear, make negative collective references of my people or any group, I will challenge you and use this term:NEVER AGAIN. 4. You stated: "I am not a Christian." The religion section of this board is full of your threads. I argue each one in content preaches your views of Christianity through the vehicle of rhetorical questions. 5.You stated: "Are you denying that Jesus had to run from Jews more than once because they threatened to stone him?" Now that is an interesting comment by you considering you also stated and I quote: "I know that it is a plagiarized and translation of another translation. That makes no difference to literalists readers whom I target when using literal themes." For someone who believes the story you throw back at me is plagiarized and distorted by translation why would you present it as you did and ask me to deny it? Why would I deny something I can not know is a fact or is not a fact? That is illogical. More to the point you also stated: "I don't care how authentic it is as this is the book Christians are using." For someone who denies he is Christian you sure as hell are using it, and you demonstrate you believe its authentic otherwise you would not ask me if I am deny it. I would suggest those two inherent contradictions by you are a manifestation of someone experiencing cognitive dissonance a common phenomena that occurs when someone tries to deny their true identity. I ask now, when you target "literalist readers" do you target yourself for throwing out that stone story and asking me whether I deny it? Let me conclude by explaining this, whether Jesus existed or not I do now know. If he did and challenged the status quo of his or her day then of course it could be that people might have challenged such beliefs and may have argued with him and in that sense their words in the argument back and forth could be phrased as "stones" hurled at each other the same way and ironically how you use a passage about Jews hurling stones at Jesus, to try hurl stones at me and Jews to justify your original generalized accusations of Jews betraying Jesus. When you use terms that assign collective descriptions to all Jews as you have that assign us culpability based on a belief or characteristic you think we all have or ANY of us have without talking to us to find out what we actually believe-those assumptions you pose as givens in your sermons I call out as personal garbage will bloody well see fit to challenge them. Edited June 23, 2020 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted July 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 On 6/23/2020 at 10:55 AM, Rue said: to justify your original generalized accusations of Jews betraying Jesus. Ignoring your other rant for now. This quoted bit was too ignorant of reality to ignore. I see Jews playing the exact part they were written to do to insure that Jesus had his chance to test and fail the messiah myth. The Jews took the death on their heads. Supplied the traitor/most trusted fried to betray Jesus, etc. You ae trying to take the Jewishness of the myth out of the story. It was likely written to end literal belief in the supernatural. Jesus was a mystic. Not a literalist fool. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted July 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 On 6/23/2020 at 10:55 AM, Rue said: I am calling your threads out as thinly veiled attempts to proselytize people to you specific views of Christianity and now specifically wish to challenge specific words of yours in response to me on this thread. They are not thinly veiled, --- and if you have not seen the better Christianity that is in Gnostic Christianity, ---you show lack of a moral sense. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) On 5/11/2020 at 3:45 PM, French Patriot said: Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh? I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus seems unaware that he was God. DL God is Jesus.........but He wants us to see Jesus as a human. Jesus had been showing mankind examples of being an obedient Son to his Father - obedience to the Father is a requirement for entering the kingdom of God. Of course Jesus is conscious of the fact that He and God are One and the Same: John 14 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Quote What did Jesus mean by forsaken? The usual definition means abandoned or deserted. How can one abandon or desert themselves? Can you make yourself two, and be at different places at the same time? God can. If God can create the universe - do you think there is a limit to what He can do? Do you think He's under the law of physics or any science? Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Quote If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh? Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him? Are you aware that most - if not all - of the apostles were Jews? You do know that His followers were mostly Jews? What poor reputation are you on about? Jesus was executed for what the Pharisees said was blasphemy, for claiming to be God. Blasphemy was a very serious crime. Quote Further. Jesus also said that he and god were one, yet scriptures seem to show Jesus as Yahweh’s good side and Yahweh as the evil side. That, my friend.....is your own faulty interpretation of the Scriptures. Quote If Jesus/Yahweh shared the some consciousness, which they would have to given that there is only one god in Christianity, why are they so different? Regards They're not different. Jesus did what He was supposed to do on earth as the Messiah. Part of it is to expand and explain more in depth what is required from us.....that's why we had those parables. Just with adultery as an example. Jesus explained what constitutes adultery. Matthew 5 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Edited July 13, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, French Patriot said: They are not thinly veiled, --- and if you have not seen the better Christianity that is in Gnostic Christianity, ---you show lack of a moral sense. Regards DL Pardon me, but you've proven so many times that this so-called Gnostic Christianity is based on ignorance of the Scriptures. Just review all your posts! I don't know anything about gnostic Christianity - but I can say based on your posts - either gnostic Christianity is indeed loaded with ignorance of the Scriptures..................or, you give it a very poor reputation. Edited July 13, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Only really misguided and stupid people think they can know something as a certainty for an imaginary supernatural genocidal prick of a god. Even i the prick you pray to were real, I would reject his genocidal ass. So will all moral people. I see that morality is not your forte, or interest. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 2:40 PM, betsy said: Gnostic Christianity is based on ignorance of the Scriptures. Yet I quote the bible as required. Go away you stupid piece of human garbage and take your genocidal prick with you. Regards DL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, French Patriot said: Yet I quote the bible as required. ... Oh my, what kind of scripture are we quoting now? Didn't see that one in the King James... Let me guess... you're Anglican United? Edited July 23, 2020 by OftenWrong Removed foul language from quote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, French Patriot said: Yet I quote the bible as required. Go away you stupid piece of human garbage and take your genocidal prick with you. Regards DL Hey, hey, hey .....you're the one responsible for the impression you give! I don't know what cockamamie cultic bible you're quoting from, but it certainly isn't from any mainstream Bibles. Quote Only really misguided and stupid people think they can know something as a certainty for an imaginary supernatural genocidal prick of a god. ...........................like you. After all, you are so certain that He is a "genocidal prick!" Edited July 23, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, betsy said: Hey, hey, hey .....you're the one responsible for the impression you give! So true. Whether you call it religion, philosophy or whatever system of thought, it doesn't matter as much as the outcome. I couldn't care less if you call yourself an atheist or a gnostic, but the values and behaviour this brings out in the person is the final thing. Here we see the result of a person with confused metaphysical theories. Just another hater, I guess. Haters gonna hate... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted July 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 6 hours ago, OftenWrong said: So true. Whether you call it religion, philosophy or whatever system of thought, it doesn't matter as much as the outcome. I couldn't care less if you call yourself an atheist or a gnostic, but the values and behaviour this brings out in the person is the final thing. Here we see the result of a person with confused metaphysical theories. Just another hater, I guess. Haters gonna hate... Yes, and Christians love to hate homosexual and women as is apparent from how they interpret scriptures and push homophobic and misogynous teachings. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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