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Amendment to child support


Anthony

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Men claim they are the victims of women's deception and that women should be forced to have abortions so that the fathers of their children won't have to be financially responsible for the children they both helped conceive, yet they refuse to get vasectomies, which would solve the problem. They would rather that women suffer through abortion procedures, which have a much higher complication rate. As far as child support goes, if you conceive a child, you're responsible for supporting that child. It's not the taxpayers' job. If you don't want that expense, then don't engage in the behavior. You can't weasel your way out of paying child support.

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2 hours ago, Mary Sciari said:

Men claim they are the victims of women's deception and that women should be forced to have abortions so that the fathers of their children won't have to be financially responsible for the children they both helped conceive, yet they refuse to get vasectomies, which would solve the problem. They would rather that women suffer through abortion procedures, which have a much higher complication rate. As far as child support goes, if you conceive a child, you're responsible for supporting that child. It's not the taxpayers' job. If you don't want that expense, then don't engage in the behavior. You can't weasel your way out of paying child support.

No, I think pro-choice works both ways.  For men and women.  If a man doesn't choose to have a child, he shouldn't have to look after it.  Regardless of the woman's choice. 

If she didn't want that expense alone, she shouldn't have engaged in the behaviour without first checking that she would have the support.

That works both ways too.  The man would never get to see the child.

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

No, I think pro-choice works both ways.  For men and women.  If a man doesn't choose to have a child, he shouldn't have to look after it.  Regardless of the woman's choice. 

If she didn't want that expense alone, she shouldn't have engaged in the behaviour without first checking that she would have the support.

That works both ways too.  The man would never get to see the child.

I see your point. As a woman, I chose never to have children because I didn't want to raise them singlehandedly and I knew that even in a committed marriage, it wouldn't have been a 50/50 effort. The most I could have hoped for was maybe 80/20, so it just wasn't worth it to me. I agree that a woman should make sure she has the support before she engages in the behaviour if she doesn't want the expense of raising a child alone.

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  • 2 months later...
On 7/12/2021 at 3:28 PM, bcsapper said:

No, I think pro-choice works both ways.  For men and women.  If a man doesn't choose to have a child, he shouldn't have to look after it.  Regardless of the woman's choice. 

If she didn't want that expense alone, she shouldn't have engaged in the behaviour without first checking that she would have the support.

That works both ways too.  The man would never get to see the child.

Do you hold to this same point of view, that everything must be absolutely equal between the biological sexes, in other topics as well?

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/4/2019 at 4:12 PM, Anthony said:

 

Over the past few years I have learned that some pregnancies were accidental and not entirely preventable. But I have also learned that a lot of those accidents ended in full term pregnancy and birth with the intent of only the woman. 

For example : We have a man and a woman, they agree to have sex with each other for the sake of pleasure, thus a strong birth control is used. However due to potential statistical birth control failure it turns out two months later she finds out that she is pregnant.  Now legally speaking she has a few options, she can abort the pregnancy or allow a full term pregnancy with post birth options. 

However, in this case the man has no options, in fact the woman forces actions upon him, infringing on his freedoms as a would be father or none father. Given that the man and woman do not stay together as a family,  If the would be “mother “decides to raise the child, the would be “father” would have to pay child support. If the “mother” decides to get an abortion the “father” has no rights to deny the abortion. 

(Now I am not going to say the “father” should have a right to force the “mother” to give birth to a child she does not wish to have, although some arguments could be made for such cases. For instance, if she does not wish to have the baby and wishes to abort, then she would be liable for compensation to the “father” as  he has lost the ability to have that child, “denial of child” support. So basically if the woman wants to abort she would have to pay the man “denial of child support for the next 18 years, a reverse of the situation. ( again this is too extreme and would never happen))

Lets look at a different option, say the woman wishes to have the baby, however the man does not wish to have the baby (he does not wish to become a father). Could a system be in place where when accidental pregnancy happens and the woman wishes to have a child, the man can optionally pay the abortion equivalency financial amount or give a certain amount of time so that he is released of all liabilities to the baby after birth as a father/caretaker? In other words, the would be father pays a certain amount equivalent to an abortion, to ensure that he is not legally the father and he has no duty to pay child care. This gives semi rights to both parties involved vs a system were all decisions are made by the woman. 

 

Current system:

Sex               Abortion?               Accepting pregnancy?                     agree?                                        Result?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

Woman>       yes/no                              yes/no                                they both agree                      equal, mother/none, success

Man >            yes/no                              yes/no                                they both agree                       equal, father/none, success

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

Woman>         no                                       yes                                           NO                            Mother, gets child support +18

Man >             yes                                      no                                             NO                      Forced fatherhood, forced child support +18 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
Woman>        yes                                       no                                            NO                         She has abortion, no further action

Man >             no                                        yes                                          NO                 He has no father rights, no ability for further action 


 

Amendment recommendation:

Sex             Abortion?                   Accepting pregnancy?                     agree?                                                                                   Result?

Woman>       no                                         yes                                             NO                              Mother gives birth to the baby, accepts abortion financial aid equivalency

Man >          yes                                          no                                               NO                             He has no fatherly rights to the baby, pays financial abortion aid equivalency

 

Thoughts?

 

It's a pity that things have come to this. What I know about the situation can be found in state family law statutes. Legislatures pass those laws to protect mothers and children from fathers who impregnate then haul ass. That mentality (and a lot of early real estate laws and probate codes) came from a time when women didn't work and were considered helpless. (Then again, the welfare state was originally designed to protect mothers and children from absentee fathers.)

Now we come to this situation, where a mother can come after a reluctant father for child support, marriage or no marriage.

Maybe it's just my age. But I think a guy should get to know a woman before he engages in reproductive activity. (Unless he lives in Vegas and engages the services of a prostitute.) The idea of a one night stand with a total stranger is a risk to both, since the law can put a hurting on either one. The woman risks pregnancy, and the guy risks having to pay for the pregnancy.

Adding Abortion to the mix is brought to you by your friendly Eugenics/Nazi Holocaust crowd, who believe large families should be outlawed.

Then again, if you are having sex with your spouse, things are a lot less complicated.

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