Chrétien - Do Nothing PM

[August1991]

BHS:

What on Earth did Chretien do to be remembered well? If getting elected is the only accomplishment that counts, then I guess he was fabulous. If doing something, anything, to give the country a direction to grow in is what counts, then Chretien was an abject failure of herculean proportions.

Newbie:

I don't know. He got 3 back to back majority governments, had 7 back to back balanced budgets, kept 78% of their red book promises, introduced the Clarity Act, signed on to the Kyoto protocol, initiated the Romanow Commission on health care....

Seems to me he didn't just sit on his hands. The biggest thing the critics complain about is that he didn't get rid of the GST. Well, in actuality and in reality, the GST has been responsible in part for Canada's prosperity. Chretien a failure? Don't think so.

BHS:

- 3 majority governments, squandered swanning around playing "da liddle guy from Shawinigan" schtick to the national audience and Emperor of Canada to the international audience (ski vacations permitting)

- 7 balanced budgets, not too hard if you take in the bulk of government revenue and your only spending obligations are items on which you've already slashed spending and refuse to make increases (eg. national defence)

- Which Red Book? And how do you come up with a ridiculous figure like 78%? Sounds like fudging

- The Clarity Act, AKA the question following the answer, AKA giving in to the idea that the citizens of one province have the right to break up the country on nothing more than a referendum. Here's what should have been the entire text of the Clarity Act: "No F***ing Way". Instead, we've codefied the idea that a simple majority of Quebecers can decide how and when the country should be disolved. For shame.

-The Kyoto Protocol isn't worth the biodegradable paper it's written on. If you'd care to read the text, you'll discover that it is in no way intended to change the amount of fossil fuel being consumed by humans, only where on the face of the planet it's being consumed. With a few extra clauses to ensure that first world nations are obligated to pay enviro-danegeld former Soviet bloc countries every year.

-And like all commissions before it, the Romanow commission was shelved. That's what commissions and inquiries are for, to take pressure off of the government to actually do something about a problem.

That's all you've got? What a great list of accomplishments. I see now why we were the only industrial country not to send a head of state to the King of Jordan's funeral - he really, really needed that ski vacation.

Canuckstan:

From Wikipedia

"The specificity of the Red Book came back to haunt the Liberals, however, and much of the next few years were spent defending broken promises. The most notable of these was the Goods and Services Tax, which the Liberals had promised to replace but did not. Critics also said that the Liberals had broken their promises to increase the power of individual Members of Parliament and introducing a national childcare program.

The majority of the promises were kept, however. Chrétien famously argued that 78% were honoured, a mark he could live with. Others contest whether some of these promises were kept or not. Some of the most notable promises from the Red Book that were kept was the pledge to cancel the purchase of new naval helicopters, canceling the sale of Toronto Pearson International Airport, reforming Unemployment Insurance, more gun control, and reducing the size of the armed forces with the end of the Cold War. Perhaps the most important pledge kept was that of returning Canada to fiscal solvency."

THe 78% was Chretien's number.

Newbie:

And oh, lest we forget, Chretien kept Canada from losing perhaps hundreds of lives by staying out of Bush's illegal invasion. That act alone borders on heroism.

----

Chretien seems to get credit for what he didn't do rather than for what he did. He didn't spend money and didn't send troops abroad - well, he did - to Afghanistan. (If I recall, Chretien was against our participation in the First Gulf War. In this, he took a different position from Mitterand and Assad. Maybe Chretien is good at de wait-and-see.)

But Chretien did do stuff. He did the sponsorship scandal and the Clarity Act, after almost losing the Quebec referendum. Not smart.

I think Chretien liked meeting high school students, shaking hands and making sure his desk had no red folders at the end of the day (doing what his boss asked him to do).

Go read "his" book Straight from the Heart. It'll set you back 98 cents. The French title is Dans la fosse aux lions but it's out of stock. In English or French, the book is absolute nonsense (Chretien didn't write it) and the only thing interesting is the choice of titles in the two languages.

Edited August 24, 2007 by August1991

[err]

Chretien seems to get credit for what he didn't do rather than for what he did.  He didn't spend money and didn't send troops abroad - well, he did - to Afghanistan.  (If I recall, Chretien was against our participation in the First Gulf War.  In this, he took a different position from Mitterand and Assad.  Maybe Chretien is good at de wait-and-see.)

I take my hat off to Jean Chretien for not involving us in the two wars against Iraq. In my opinion, that outweighs any negatives that you can suggest about him.

I think just about everybody (accept for a few half-wits) can see that it would have been wrong to participate in the second gulf war. The first gulf war was harder to call at the time. At the time, it was not public knowledge that the USA had told Saddam that it was OK to attack Kuwait. Considering that the Americans actually started the first gulf war, I'm glad (in hindsight) that Chretien kept us out of it. Besides the potentially thousands of potential deaths to Canadian boys, if Canada had participated, how about the potential for terrorist attacks on our country....

I'll agree with August on a few points though... Many of his inactions hurt Canadians... His re-negging on his promise to scrap Mulroney's regressive GST for one...

[kimmy]

Chretien kept us out of the first Gulf War? uh?

Weren't we involved in the first Gulf War?

And wasn't that before Chretien was Prime Minister anyway?

Aside from that...

* Deciding not to scrap the GST was among Chretien's smarter moves (or non-moves, as August might point out.)

* Scrapping the helicopter purchase contract was one of the stupidest wastes of money Ottawa has inflicted on us during my lifetime.

* the Clarity Act... a policy penned by Stephen Harper and advocated for years by Preston Manning? Fitting that the big piece of Chretien's legacy would be something he stole.

-kimmy

{...but he did perfect the Shawinigan Handshake, a martial arts move rivalling the Five-point Palm Exploding Heart Technique in lethal efficacy.}

[Slavik44]

but he held off an invasion in Canadain territory all by himself, okay so it was a burgler in his house...but its the closest we have come to winning a war all by our selves since like forever.

[newbie]

Now we're on to Chretien bashing. What's the matter Right; run out of current topics?

[kimmy]

Now we're on to Chretien bashing. What's the matter Right; run out of topics?

It arose in the Mulroney bashing thread, and August appears to have decided that rather than hijack that discussion, he'd start a different one. If you disagree with the views expressed here then please feel free to partake, but if you feel this discussion is not to your interest then I encourage you to abstain.

-k

[Leader Circle]

Chretien seems to get credit for what he didn't do rather than for what he did.  He didn't spend money and didn't send troops abroad - well, he did - to Afghanistan.  (If I recall, Chretien was against our participation in the First Gulf War.  In this, he took a different position from Mitterand and Assad.  Maybe Chretien is good at de wait-and-see.)

I take my hat off to Jean Chretien for not involving us in the two wars against Iraq. In my opinion, that outweighs any negatives that you can suggest about him.

I think just about everybody (accept for a few half-wits) can see that it would have been wrong to participate in the second gulf war. The first gulf war was harder to call at the time. At the time, it was not public knowledge that the USA had told Saddam that it was OK to attack Kuwait. Considering that the Americans actually started the first gulf war, I'm glad (in hindsight) that Chretien kept us out of it. Besides the potentially thousands of potential deaths to Canadian boys, if Canada had participated, how about the potential for terrorist attacks on our country....

I'll agree with August on a few points though... Many of his inactions hurt Canadians... His re-negging on his promise to scrap Mulroney's regressive GST for one...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you even believe half of the shit you write? Does the GST not serve a purpose? The gulf war is not his shining moment either!

[Toro]

Now we're on to Chretien bashing. What's the matter Right; run out of current topics?

Whatever it is, its Bush's fault.

I give Chretien a lot of credit for solving the deficit problem. I don't think we should underestimate that. And though it may have been Martin driving it, Chretien still had final say and deserves credit.

However, if Chretien was CEO of a company and his company almost imploded on his watch, in part because of his inaction, he would have been fired. Canada was almost lost by about the capacity of the Forum. If 25,000 people had voted the other way, Canada may not exist today. And Chretien's incompetence and inaction is partly to blame. I was always amazed the Canadians were so forgiving of that.

We should also recognize that Chretien was perhaps the luckiest PM ever. The opposition collapsed and disintegrated. That's why he won 3 majorities.

Adscam is a disgrace. Chretien is an old time politician whose practices the public loathes.

I did like him when he took that protestor out who got too close to him. That was great.

[Shakeyhands]

We were definately involved in the Gulf War and yes Jean Chretien was our Prime Minister.

[kimmy]

We were definately involved in the Gulf War and yes Jean Chretien was our Prime Minister.

Quite a feat, considering that Gulf War v1.0 was in 1991 and Chretien didn't take office until 1993...

-k

[shoop]

Quite a feat, considering that Gulf War v1.0 was in 1991 and Chretien didn't take office until 1993...

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uhhh, he was in Canada for most of the year....

[Cartman]

Uhhh, he was in Canada for most of the year....

I fail to see how this refutes Kimmy's point. Could you expand?

[shoop]

I fail to see how this refutes Kimmy's point.  Could you expand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't trying to refute her point. Just trying to make a joke, and not a very funny one in hindsight.

[Cartman]

My mistake. The emoticon threw me.

Again, I am no Liberal but this title is really uncalled for. I disagree with much/most of what Chretien did while in office, but to say he did nothing? That is a bit of a stretch. They did balance the budget, they did slash social programs (more than Mulroney BTW), they did offer moderate assistance to students, sign Kyoto and alter the manner in which parties are funded to name a few off the top of my head.

[shoop]

Again, I am no Liberal but this title is really uncalled for.  I disagree with much/most of what Chretien did while in office, but to say he did nothing?  That is a bit of a stretch.  They did balance the budget, they did slash social programs (more than Mulroney BTW), they did offer moderate assistance to students, sign Kyoto and alter the manner in which parties are funded to name a few off the top of my head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it is uncalled for but such is life. Not as inflammatory as many of Mirror's post titles to be fair though.

I actually voted for Chretien twice. Had enough of him come 2000 though. I think his most signigicant contribution that you haven't mentioned was the clarity act.

[B. Max]

Chretien - Do Nothing PM

No he did lots.

HRDC scandal

Strangled a protester

had protesters pepper sprayed

Useless gun registry

Gomery scandal

Tried to shut down gomery

Signed the kyoto farce

Stuck a knife in the back of our closest ally

Stole 48 billion from UIC to balance the budget

Was western secessions best salesman.

Add on, hoodwinked the voters of Ont.

[newbie]

And 3 successive majority governments. Hmmmm.

[B. Max]

And 3 successive majority governments. Hmmmm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That doesn't say much for the voters of Ont.

[err]

How can you even believe half of the shit you write? Does the GST not serve a purpose? The gulf war is not his shining moment either!

The gst is a Regressive tax... that means the opposite of Progressive, which most of you conservatives seem the hink our system is. A poor or middle class person lives cheque to cheque.... Paying GST on nearly everything they buy. A well-to-do person who can bank a portion of their cheque does not pay GST on that portion, and hence, are taxed at a lower rate. The pre-Mulroney taxation system was fairer. The manufacturers sales tax, and more progressive income tax.

And you can show off your excrement by telling us all why we should be have attacked Iraq... Was it the heavy hanged threat of nuclear destruction from the imaginary WMDs.... Was it because you thought the Iraqi people would be better off if the USA carved up their assets, and privatized them to US bidders??? Or do you still believe what some morons are still posting, that Iraq was involved in 9/11... Why don't you just spell it out.....

[err]

Chretien - Do Nothing PM

Signed the kyoto farce

Stuck a knife in the back of our closest ally

Kyoto a farce... You side with the brilliant scientist, George Bush on this one...

Stuck a knife... really...

[August1991]

My mistake.  The emoticon threw me.

Again, I am no Liberal but this title is really uncalled for.  I disagree with much/most of what Chretien did while in office, but to say he did nothing?  That is a bit of a stretch.  They did balance the budget, they did slash social programs (more than Mulroney BTW), they did offer moderate assistance to students, sign Kyoto and alter the manner in which parties are funded to name a few off the top of my head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thread's title is a play on the US Know Nothing Party and the quote of Thomas Jefferson that the best government is the least government (or he who governs best governs least).

To some, Chretien's inaction is an accolade. "We wait for dat report an' den we see what to do."

----

A poor or middle class person lives cheque to cheque.... Paying GST on nearly everything they buy. A well-to-do person who can bank a portion of their cheque does not pay GST on that portion, and hence, are taxed at a lower rate.

Maybe, but the rich person will at least pay GST on the savings when the savings are spent (and why save if you'll never spend it).

Compare that with income tax and RRSPs. The rich person saves in RRSPs, avoids income tax now and won't pay income tax on it when the RRSP is cashed in. (They will pay GST though.)

Come to think about it err, you are suggesting that we should tax savings - including pension contributions. If a poor person (and his employer) contribute to a pension scheme, should that money be included in the person's taxable income? (At present, the contribution is deducted from income and no income tax is paid on it.)

[mirror]

As Cartman said the title of this thread was uncalled for.

All it is, is a blatant attempt to put down Chretien because Mulroney is being disgraced once again across the nation with the release of Newman's book.

Nice attempt at a drive by smear.

[Guest eureka]

He won't pay GST on a Florida condo or an Ocean cruise or some of those other expenditures of tax cuts bythe wealthy.

I favour the GST, though.

[shoop]

All it is, is a blatant attempt to put down Chretien because Mulroney is being disgraced once again across the nation with the release of Newman's book.

Nice attempt at a drive by smear. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pot - kettle. Kettle - pot.

[B. Max]

Chretien - Do Nothing PM

Signed the kyoto farce

Stuck a knife in the back of our closest ally

Kyoto a farce... You side with the brilliant scientist, George Bush on this one...

Stuck a knife... really...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes just like senate who voted 100% against it and most likey on the advice of scientists like the organization of state climatologists and the historical weather records.

Yes knife, figuratively speaking.