Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: He'd take Aho's contract if it was offered too. Slightly more expensive Aho would get the deal done, it's not the dollar figure that's holding things up, it's the term. It's not $12.5 million he's turning down, it's the seven year term he's turning down. Sakic signed an offer sheet, Denver did not feel betrayed, he's still a made guy, as made as it gets. Toronto fans are a toxic fan base, whipped into hysteria by a toxic media. Sign the offer sheet. if some GM is willing to do him the favor of a five year, the Leafs will be forced to match. Unless and until a GM does tho, there is no market forcing the Leafs to walk both Matthews and Marner to UFA at the same time. Reality is, there is no market forcing the Leafs to do less than 7, so there's no leverage other than refusing to play, which isn't worth it, sign a bridge, or gfy.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Sign the offer sheet. if some GM is willing to do him the favor of a five year, the Leafs will be forced to match. Unless and until a GM does tho, there is no market forcing the Leafs to walk both Matthews and Marner to UFA at the same time. Reality is, there is no market forcing the Leafs to do less than 7, so there's no leverage other than refusing to play, which isn't worth it, sign a bridge, or gfy. Reality is, there is no reason that five years is such a bad term that it's worth letting him sit because you don't want to give him a five year term. Just because they have the leverage to act crazy, doesn't mean they should. If they act crazy Marner will sign a bridge, I don't see him sitting, but a bridge will not lock him in longer than five years, and he's going to be turning UFA when Matthews does anyway, because he wisely is not willing to lock himself in on the cheap during his prime earning years, so you aren't avoiding that outcome with a bridge deal. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: Reality is, there is no reason that five years is such a bad term that it's worth letting him sit over it. Just because they have the leverage to act crazy, doesn't mean they should. Just because he can play chicken with them, doesn't mean he should, he's the one who will regret it, a corporation doesn't have feelings.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Just because he can play chicken with them, doesn't mean he should, he's the one who will regret it, a corporation doesn't have feelings. He shouldn't sit, Toronto shouldn't let him sit. Playing chicken gets you a better contract, it's called negotiation, but not turning away before the crash because you want the other side to turn first is silly. He'll sign the bridge if the Leafs want to go crazy town. Signing away UFA years is not the smart move from his position, if he caves to that, he's a sucker. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: He shouldn't sit, Toronto shouldn't let him sit. Playing chicken gets you a better contract, but not turning away before the crash because you want the other side to turn first is silly. He'll sign the bridge if the Leafs want to go crazy town. Signing away UFA years is not the smart move from his position, if he caves to that, he's a sucker. Sucker is BS, that's the crazy town right there, he has no reason to not sell the Leafs one year of UFA, and it's better for him if the team isn't jammed up with two massive UFA contracts the same year, all Dubas is doing is trying to make it all fit.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Sucker is BS, that's the crazy town right there, he has no reason to not sell the Leafs one year of UFA, and it's better for him if the team isn't jammed up with two massive UFA contracts the same year, all Dubas is doing is trying to make it all fit. McDavid signed away 3 years of UFA locked in at $12.5 million, that's three years he going to making a helluva lot less than he otherwise could have, Matthews signed for less, but when UFA rolls around he'll be cashing in with a lot more than $12.5 million for the first three years of UFA. Matthews played it smart, McDavid signed a team friendly deal like a sucker. Doing the team favors at major expense to yourself is being a sucker. McDavid, Crosby and MacKinnon are suckers, Auston Matthews is the smartest guy in the room. Signing away UFA years is for people who hate money. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: McDavid signed away 3 years of UFA locked in at $12.5 million, that's three years he going to making a helluva lot less than he otherwise could have, Matthews signed for less, but when UFA rolls around he'll be cashing in with a lot more than $12.5 million for the first three years of UFA. Matthews played it smart, McDavid signed a team friendly deal like a sucker. Doing the team favors at major expense to yourself is being a sucker. McDavid, Crosby and MacKinnon are suckers, Auston Matthews is the smartest guy in the room. Marner is the one who wanted to go last, that was Marner's big play, but now he's painted himself into a corner doing that. Matthews is the smartest guy in the room, because he beat Marner to the punch, Marner could have signed before Matthews, it was Marner's choice to be the one left holding the bag.
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 Bear in mind, Paul Marner, which is who we are really dealing with here, refused to negotiate during the year, meanwhile Matthews just kept at it and got it done, in B4 Paul Marner ftw.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Marner is the one who wanted to go last, that was Marner's big play, but now he's painted himself into a corner doing that. Matthews is the smartest guy in the room, because he beat Marner to the punch, Marner could have signed before Matthews, it was Marner's choice to be the one left holding the bag. Matthews is the smartest guy in the room, because he didn't sign away UFA years when salary cap is going to be a lot higher when he hits UFA, and he's going to make a helluva lot more than he would have by signing away three UFA years like McDavid, or signing away 11 years of UFA like Crosby. MacKinnon locked in at $6.3 million for three years of UFA, how did that work out for him? If Marner signs away UFA years, he hates money and loves the Leafs, that's not the smart move though, ask Crosby and MacKinnon if you don't believe me, and in a few years, ask McDavid. Long-term deals that eat into UFA years make no sense when you are as good as Marner is and the cap is going to be much higher in five years when you could be cashing in on UFA in your prime. Stamkos and Kucherov are suckers, especially if Tampa never wins that cup, and they locked themselves in on the cheap and Kucherov could have cashed in on prime UFA years instead, and Stamkos took a team friendly deal in UFA instead. Marner should not be looking to emulate suckers who hate money, he should be looking to emulate the smartest guy in the room, Auston Matthews, even if he takes less just to not sign away UFA years. A bridge deal is a much smarter move than signing a 8x12.5 million contract right now, but getting a five year deal is optimal for Marner, and it's not hard to see why he would prefer that term length to any other deal, it's not a coincidence. It wasn't a coincidence when Matthews picked a five year term either, the reason is, it maximized earning potential. Marner knows the McDavid deal is worse than the Matthews deal, which is why he is turning down the McDavid deal and willing to settle for a cheaper Matthews type deal. It's not a stupid move, it's in his own self interest, it's in the self interest of any big name RFA to not sign away prime UFA years, and expecting Marner to put that aside to do the team a solid because McDavid, Stamkos and Kucherov are suckers, is not fair to Marner. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) It won't bother me if Dubas caves into Marner, that's not the point, the point is that I'm not convinced that Dubas is going to cave, and if Marner sits past November, he's not signing with the Leafs after that, ergo, either Marner caves, or he's forcing a trade, which is not my preference, but on the other hand I don't think you need Marner per se to win the cup, if Marner blows himself up in Toronto, so be it, big Blue & White Machine rolls on without him. In terms of money, I bet it will be a net loss in the end, NHL players don't get big endorsement contracts in the US, in terms of politics, Marner will be blamed, fans don't turn on their teams they turn on the player, in terms of winning the cup, I don't think the grass is greener on Long Island or wherever. Edited July 17, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: It won't bother me if Dubas caves into Marner, that's not the point, the point is that I'm not convinced that Dubas is going to cave, and if Marner sits past November, he's not signing with the Leafs after that, ergo, either Marner caves, or he's forcing a trade, which is not my preference, but on the other hand I don't think you need Marner per se to win the cup, if Marner blows himself up in Toronto, so be it, big Blue & White Machine rolls on without him. Well if neither Dubas or Marner caves and Marner sits past November, they are both idiots. At that point you would have to trade Marner, don't need him to win, but having him would certainly help. I honestly don't think that going to happen though, one or both of them will cave, if Marner signs a long term deal that eats into UFA years though, he's a sucker who got fleeced by Dubas. Either five years or a bridge deal, don't sign away prime UFA years to do the Leafs a really big solid at your own expense. Rantanen is far more likely to cave into a long term deal signing away UFA years, but if he does, he's a sucker, though I'll certainly appreciate his generosity and love of the Avs, if he does, I just won't get mad at him if he wants to get paid and signs a five year deal or a bridge instead, because if I was Rantanen, that's just the smart play. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) Like, if Rantanen signs a 8x10 deal or something, that would be happy dance time. Thanks for being a sucker to help out the team Rantanen, you're a saint. Sakic would get mad props for getting him to bite on that. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 The Hawks traded Anisimov to Ottawa for Zack Smith, clearing an extra 1.3 in cap room.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: The Hawks traded Anisimov to Ottawa for Zack Smith, clearing an extra 1.3 in cap room. I really wish the Hawks would come to their sense and move Kane, so the Avs can take advantage of it. Alas, Stan Bowman is probably not that smart. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: I really wish the Hawks would come to their sense and move Kane, so the Avs can take advantage of it, alas, Stan Bowman is probably not that smart. Who needs Kane when you got Alex Nylander?
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Dougie93 said: Who needs Kane when you got Alex Nylander? Time to rebuild Bowman, the longer you wait, the harder the rebuild gets.
Rue Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) On 7/13/2019 at 12:52 AM, Yzermandius19 said: The Leafs lose huge with that one. Goaltending isn't their problem and Domi is a huge downgrade on Marner, it makes sense for the Habs, but the Leafs won't stand for that fleecing, not to mention the Leafs are having cap issues and couldn't afford to fit both Domi and Price under the cap even if it wasn't a fleecing. Eichel for Domi and Price is also a fleecing, Habs make out like bandits in all your proposed trades, and neither Dubas or Botterill are dumb enough to get fleeced like that. These trades simply aren't realistic at all, moving Price out is a good idea, but you aren't getting a return like that for doing so, bet that. Of course Y I am full of sheeyat on the trades. Its wishful thinking. I know that. Just hallucinating. I love Price I just think the Habs are in no man's land and we will get good in two years or so but not now. Down the road we have some promising centres, dmen and even a goalie waiting but its 2-3 years from now. I am 63. I will die before the next cup comes maybe. I am old. I can't chase Halle Berry anymore. I am winded. That said Nylander was on a team that did not need a puff pastry. In another division with less hitting where he is going don't be too quick to piss on him. If he does turn around its in Chicago where they have similar style players and Bowman and Chicago are no dummies when it comes to scouting. By the way back to your Leafs, I agree with what they did this summer. Its too bad about Marner. I think that will fester all year. Dubas is ham struck. He can't trade him no one will give him his value. He can't sign him either. So we have a stalemate and I do not blame Dubas on this one although I do think they should have traded Nylander before they signed him and signed Marner last year. Easy for me to say. I would trade Nylander to make the money space and pay it in bonuses not salary for 3 years to Marner. Marner is too difficult to trade. You just can't get a clear picture on his value until one more year to see if he's for real. I think he is and I think he is a great asset but he will not be a goal scorer like Mathews or Tavares. He reminds me of Dave Keon, Doug Gilmour, Jacques Lemaire. He gets far more assists than goals because of his style and that is o.k. He's a two way guy with great passing ability and I see him on any other team as a centre not a winger. Man he would fit in Montreal well and I bet you as much as you think I am crazy if the Habs offered Domi and Gallagher for him and the Leafs could not sign him Dubas would do it if they could and try ask for Mete as well although I would send them Alzner and take money back or Petry but not Mete. can't sign him. In fact I am working on it right now. Crazier things have happened. Edited July 17, 2019 by Rue
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 Nylander will play 20 mins with Matthews and bounce back, $7 million for Nylander is going to look cheap in a couple years, Nylander will eventually replace Tavares as the 2C. Trading Nylander now is selling low and ripe for turning into a Hall for Larsson situation. Could have been forced to trade him last year if he held out for the whole season, but since he didn't, Ocho-Ocho is good to go now. Dubas ain't trading him, many others would be traded first, starting with Kapanen. The guy who gets traded is the guy who refuses to make a deal, so that's Marner now. Not saying he is getting traded, but it's not going to be Nylander to make room for Marner, that's not how Dubas rolls. If a contract has to be dumped to fit a Mitch Marner 11.6 million contract in, it will be likely be Cody Ceci's $4.5 million one year rental.
Rue Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 For all you fans, take a look at Jersey this year. You have to like them on paper right now. Right now Buffalo and Jersey on paper look good although the chemistry on Buffalo is weird and they underachieved last year. I like those two and the Leafs. I see this as an off year for the Penquins, Islanders. Everyone is touting Florida and the Lightening are still a fantastic roster. So those are the guys I would watch. Buff, Jersey, Flo , Torontoi nd Tampa. I have to go with those 5 in the East. I see Boston fading to 6 and the Habs at 7 or 8 with Detroit. Also Ottawa is not as bad as everyone thinks but won't make the poffs. I do think Connor Brown not being with the Leafs and Kadri gone as well makes them a very soft team upfront. That's fine when you play finesse teams like Tampa, Montreal, Florida, but not teams like Buffalo, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Boston that use the boards hard. That could come back to harm them. Their blue line is better yes but Ceci can be a head case so let's see what he does. On paper he should be a no.4 or 3 but he plays like a dummy. Maybe with a different coach he smartens up. The Leafs need a back up goalie. So listen to me. Domi, Lundrigen, Hudon, Tartar, Petry for Marner. That is my last offer. In the West still have to go with Dallas and Calgary before anyone else. Vegas still is to be watched. Those 3 and never write off Chicago with a better goalie this year and Shaw as a solid checking centre they missed if he does not get injured. He's had a few concussions but if he's healthy he gives the Hawks some grit they missed.
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) The Habs are in better shape than Buffalo, I think the Habs will be fighting with Florida for the wildcard and Buffalo will miss again. With Price the Habs could even win the cup, there's so much parity right now, anybody can make the finals, and if Price gets there he can steal a series. The main thing the Habs need is an LHD to play with Weber, if they're not signing Gardiner than they should trade for TJ Brodie. Edited July 17, 2019 by Dougie93
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rue said: I do think Connor Brown not being with the Leafs and Kadri gone as well makes them a very soft team upfront. That's fine when you play finesse teams like Tampa, Montreal, Florida, but not teams like Buffalo, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Boston that use the boards hard. That could come back to harm them. Their blue line is better yes but Ceci can be a head case so let's see what he does. On paper he should be a no.4 or 3 but he plays like a dummy. Maybe with a different coach he smartens up. The Leafs need a back up goalie. So listen to me. Domi, Lundrigen, Hudon, Tartar, Petry for Marner. That is my last offer. You don't know what you're talking about, Connor Brown is butter soft, he's a good penalty killer, but he's not physical at all. Ceci is a wildcard, the problem in Ottawa is that they played him 24 mins a night against top competition as a "shutdown" guy, which is not what Ceci is. He can skate, he's a great passer, and he has a wicked shot, Ceci was the highest scoring defenseman when he was drafted. Ceci is like a poor man's Aaron Ekblad, big, but soft, looks like a heavy player, but actually isn't, Ceci is Keith Yandle in a bigger body.
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 Just to illustrate, this is Cody Ceci in junior. Why did he go 15th overall? He had 60 points in 64 games as a defenseman. Not a shutdown guy. Kieth Yandle with a bigger frame.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) I think Florida will be a wildcard this year. Goaltending was what really held them back and they added Bobrovsky. They've got the high end forwards locked in on the cheap like Barkov and Huberdeau, the problem with them now is the defense. Buffalo and Jersey are going to miss, they have no goaltending, Montreal could sneak in as wildcard if Price stays healthy and has a good year. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: I think Florida will be a wildcard this year. Goaltending was what really held them back and they added Bobrovsky. They've got the high end forwards locked in on the cheap like Barkov and Huberdeau, the problem with them now is the defense. I think they're going to disappoint again, Montreal is under way more pressure, the Habs will simply outwork the Panthers to the wildcard. The Habs barely missed last year, healthy Price and Weber all year gets them in.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I think they're going to disappoint again, Montreal is under way more pressure, the Habs will simply outwork the Panthers to the wildcard. The Habs barely missed last year, healthy Price and Weber all year gets them in. Healthy Bobrovsky and Barkov all year gets the Panthers in. Florida is more talented, and barely missed with shit goaltending, now they have Goalie Bob. I could see both of them getting in and the metro being weak despite the hoopla of it getting way better. Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19
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