Infrastructure, a key Liberal promise, is a mess

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

If the province doesn’t approve the pipeline, it will be overruled by a higher court in the basis of jurisdiction. Alberta could challenge BC on that basis. It’s not a notwithstanding clause matter unless BC tries to say that the pipeline trounces on a Charter right, which might happen. 

You have no idea what you're talking about, again, provinces do not have charter rights, only people have charter rights, Section 33 does not have anything to do with jurisdiction.

[Dougie93]

This is section 33 right here;

Section 33.

(1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15.

(2) An Act or a provision of an Act in respect of which a declaration made under this section is in effect shall have such operation as it would have but for the provision of this Charter referred to in the declaration.

(3) A declaration made under subsection (1) shall cease to have effect five years after it comes into force or on such earlier date as may be specified in the declaration.

(4) Parliament or the legislature of a province may re-enact a declaration made under subsection (1).

(5) Subsection (3) applies in respect of a re-enactment made under subsection (4).

 

See anything about jurisdiction in there?

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

You have no idea what you're talking about, again, provinces do not have charter rights, only people have charter rights, Section 33 does not have anything to do with jurisdiction.

Trans Mountain comes under federal jurisdiction. It is being challenged in the court on the basis of environmental safety, which is protected by the Charter.  If the people of BC challenge the pipeline on that basis, it would go to a higher court, federal. The only way out for the government at that point is the notwithstanding clause. 

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Trans Mountain comes under federal jurisdiction. It is being challenged in the court on the basis of environmental safety, which is protected by the Charter.  If the people of BC challenge the pipeline on that basis, it would go to a higher court, federal. The only way out for the government at that point is the notwithstanding clause. 

Nope.  "Environmental safety" is not a charter right, show us the text of the section which mentions "environmental safety".

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Nope.  "Environmental safety" is not a charter right, show us the text of the section which mentions "environmental safety".

Ha ha. Read the Charter. All the rights are listed.  Environmental safety is easily read into the Charter. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Ha ha. Read the Charter. All the rights are listed.  Environmental safety is easily read into the Charter. 

Ha ha, you're a laughable clown who keeps digging himself in deeper, but the sections of the charter are quite specific, there is absolutely no clause which guarantees that right

 

[Dougie93]

You can prove me wrong quite easily by posting the text of the section of the charter which mentions "environmental safety",  ca'mon, lets see you do it, should only take a few seconds to find it by Google.

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

You can prove me wrong quite easily by posting the text of the section of the charter which mentions "environmental safety",  ca'mon, lets see you do it, should only take a few seconds to find it by Google.

 

You do the math. I already know the answer. 

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

You do the math. I already know the answer. 

Prove your assertion.   So easy to do, Goggle the charter sections, show us the text, takes two seconds.

[Dougie93]

Uh-oh, looks like one of the Captain Liberal  Party of Canada trolls has exposed himself as not actually knowing what is in the Charter, who knew?

[Zeitgeist]

25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Uh-oh, looks like one of the Captain Liberal  Party of Canada trolls has exposed himself as not actually knowing what is in the Charter, who knew?

Do I think a Charter challenge would work for BC?  No.  But they can try.  If they win, the notwithstanding could be applied. The Charter uses generalities that can be referenced in a Charter challenge, such as

Section 7 - Life, liberty and security of person. 7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice

[Dougie93]

Still waiting for you to show the text which actually proves your assertion "environmental safety" in any section in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the government of British Columbia cannot bring a charter challenge on behalf of a person because BC is a province not a person, and provinces don't have individual rights under the Charter of RIghts and Freedoms, nor do they need to invoke that simply to refuse the pipeline, as refusing the pipeline is entirely within their jurisdiction.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Dougie93

[bush_cheney2004]

Anything is possible with "Charter Politics"....regardless of what is actually written down.

[Dougie93]

 Canadian lefty pseudo intellectual paints himself into a corner,  an embarrassment to the Liberal of Party Canada that is, doesn't even know the basics when it comes to the Liberal Party of Canada's sacred Charter.   lol

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Anything is possible with "Charter Politics"....regardless of what is actually written down.

It's not possible to override provincial jurisdiction by section 33, anyway you slice it, and as such BC isn't bringing a Charter challenge, cause they don't have to, they've got Zoolander stopped cold, and so does Quebec for Energy East.

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Still waiting for you to show the text which actually proves your assertion "environmental safety" in any section in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the government of British Columbia cannot bring a charter challenge on behalf of a person because BC is a province not a person, and provinces don't have individual rights under the Charter of RIghts and Freedoms, nor do they need to invoke that simply to refuse the pipeline, as refusing the pipeline is entirely within their jurisdiction.

Sure it can be done. Someone just has to make the case of a violation of a Charter right.  That doesn’t necessarily mean it will be upheld.  Right now the project is held up in NEB hearings.  I hope and think the project will go ahead.  But it will likely face more challenges. You need to read about ongoing environmental questions, Indigenous concerns, even some concern about damage to homes.  Right now it’s about marine issues.  Whales. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

It's not possible to override provincial jurisdiction by section 33, anyway you slice it, and as such BC isn't bringing a Charter challenge, cause they don't have to, they've got Zoolander stopped cold, and so does Quebec for Energy East.

 

Maybe, but that doesn't square with railroad and highway infrastructure politics for over 100 years.   Oil pipelines are just another form of transportation for commerce.   It seems that Canada has more trade barriers between provinces than with the Americans.

I agree that it won't be Section 33's "Get Out Of Jail Free Card", but Supreme Court justices have gone rogue before in Canada.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Maybe, but that doesn't square with railroad and highway infrastructure politics for over 100 years.   Oil pipelines are just another form of transportation for commerce.   It seems that Canada has more trade barriers between provinces than with the Americans.

I agree that it won't be Section 33's "Get Out Of Jail Free Card", but Supreme Court justices have gone rogue before in Canada.

Get Keystone through your states before you criticize Canadian challenges.  You’re getting major Indigenous opposition to Keystone. Has Trump given up?

[Dougie93]

Just FYI, BC is not what is holding up the pipeline, the Indians are holding the pipeline because Zoolander made it a policy that the indians must be consulted before a pipeline can go through and the Indians went to court and said the Liberals never did it and the court agreed, and that cannot be overruled by Section 33, because is not a person invoking a charter right, that is the judiciary issuing a court order.

So in fact Zoolander is the architect of his own pipeline blockage, shoot his own foot off. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Get Keystone through your states before you criticize Canadian challenges.  You’re getting major Indigenous opposition to Keystone. Has Trump given up?

 

No...the U.S. builds other pipelines for lunch.

[Dougie93]

This is government by virtue signalling, and nothing else.   The puppetmaster who pulls Zoolander's strings is Gerry Butts, but Butts is all politics no governing, he knows how to win elections, but that's it.  So he "advises" Trudeaupe entirely on the basis political consideration but he doesn't know anything about governing.  And obviously Zoolander doesn't know what he's doing, because he really is just a vacuous himbo rich kid, substitute drama teacher.

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No...the U.S. builds other pipelines for lunch.

You clearly haven’t read up on the major barriers to Keystone contruction in US states.  My understanding is that Keystone is on the back burner because of state and indigenous resistance.  Prove otherwise. 

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

This is government by virtue signalling, and nothing else.   The puppetmaster who pulls Zoolander's strings is Gerry Butts, but Butts is all politics no governing, he knows how to win elections, but that's it.  So he "advises" Trudeaupe entirely on the basis political consideration but he doesn't know anything about governing.  And obviously Zoolander doesn't know what he's doing, because he really is just a vacuous himbo rich kid, substitute drama teacher.

Puerile criticism, heavily on insult, short on substance. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

You clearly haven’t read up on the major barriers to Keystone contruction in US states.  My understanding is that Keystone is on the back burner because of state and indigenous resistance.  Prove otherwise. 

 

False...the issue has been front and center in the USA for years.   But it doesn't cause a civil war between states as in Canada.

[Dougie93]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No...the U.S. builds other pipelines for lunch.

Right now environmental groups in the US have got a court to order the State Department to do another review.  Keystone is slowing wending its way through the process, but I would expect to get approved eventually, but even if not, just another example of Canada being totally dependent of the US to prop it up, because Confederation is inherently dysfunctional and with America propping it up, it's a failed state, ergo; Fake Country.