How Racist Is Canada and......

[bigdude]

Saskatchewan convicts heavily aboriginal

Aboriginal people are overrepresented in Saskatchewan's adult correctional system, with people aged 18 and 19 making up about 13 per cent of them, a Statistics Canada study released Friday reports.

Between April 1, 1999, and March 31, 2004, about 25,000 adults had completed at least one supervised sentence. Of these, 57 per cent were aboriginals.

According to the 2001 census, aboriginal people make up only 10 per cent of the province's adult population.

But the most revealing statistics were for young aboriginals.

Thirteen per cent of the adults in correctional services were aboriginals aged 18 and 19 years. In Saskatchewan, they represent 5.2 per cent of all aboriginal adults.

Non-aboriginals in the same age group make up only 0.3 per cent of supervised adults.

How utterly tragic and what are we going to do about it?

[kimmy]

I expect the main reason that natives are over-represented in the correctional system is... because they commit more crimes.

There is most definitely a problem, but I believe the problems start far before things ever get to the correctional system.

-k

[Riverwind]

How utterly tragic and what are we going to do about it?

We could get more white people to commit crimes that would balance out the percentages.

[Riverwind]

How utterly tragic and what are we going to do about it?

On the serious side, we could start being honest about why Natives are doing so poorly. For example, we should ask why other minority groups such as the Japanese and Chinese who suffered from the same kinds of racist policies in the first half of the 20th century yet do not suffer from the same malaise that Natives do.

I believe that what is killing natives is the culture of entitlement and dependency created by the years of institutionalized racism represented by the department of Indian affairs. Simply handing over large tracts of the land and money to the 'Indian Elite' will also do nothing to address the problems for most natives since the treaty process just replaces the paternalistic department of Indian affairs with an equally paternalistic band council.

What natives need to do is move beyond the culture of victim-hood and entitlement and recognize that they are responsible for creating their own destiny. Unfortunately this problem can be solved by good leadership from within the Native community.

[bigdude]

How about white Canadian society living up to its obligations and settling our First Nation people's land claims?

That would make a good beginning.

They will never dig themselves out of their situation with our holding onto their land for which they have legal claims which have never been extinguished.

[newbie]

How about apologizing to them and offering a willingness to settle financially over the abuse many indured in residential schools? Maybe then they can start healing.

[Riverwind]

How about white Canadian society living up to its obligations and settling our First Nation people's land claims?

That would make a good beginning.

They will never dig themselves out of their situation with our holding onto their land for which they have legal claims which have never been extinguished.

They will never dig themselves out their situation as long as they think the only solution to their problems is to get white people to shower them with cash and land. Natives already enjoy huge entitlements that would make most whites and non-whites exceeding wealthy = but for some reason they cannot make use of them. The fact that they cannot solve their problems given the huge government benefits that they already have shows that more money and land is not going to solve a thing.

This problem has to be solved by native leadership. It is out of our hands.

[bigdude]

So with your approach we are going to continue to steal their land. Their land, not our land.

Great strategy which I'm sure will help them immensely.

With strategies like you propose no wonder they are screwed.

[August1991]

I expect the main reason that natives are over-represented in the correctional system is... because they commit more crimes.

There is most definitely a problem, but I believe the problems start far before things ever get to the correctional system.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I disagree with you Kimmy. And I agree rather with Mapl.. uh, BigDude on this one.

There are three groups in North America that pose "problems". Black Americans, Native Indians and the French. All three groups did not choose to be here.

Kimmy, you have posted here about the immigrant experience of your family. Well, what was the immigrant experience of the three groups above?

Blacks were forced to come here. Indians were here and then all these other people showed up. The French were here but then suddenly found themselves in an English country.

Of the three groups, IMV, the French have managed best, perhaps because they are concentrated geographically. But this evening, I was walking in east end Montreal - near the Olympic Stadium - and I was reminded once again about how it feels to be left out.

Since the thread is about Native Indians, I frankly don't know what to do. Our federal government spends about $8000 annually for each Canadian Indian. What's the result? As BigDude noted, over one in 10 prisoners in Saskatchewan is a young Native Indian.

[Bakunin]

First, deal with them as nation to nation.

Second, respect their autonomy.

Third, a bit of talking and some love.

They can and must organize themselve, if they need help or a friend to talk to, they will tell us.

I could say the same thing as the canada-quebec problem.

[bigdude]

Good suggestions!

[Riverwind]

There are three groups in North America that pose "problems".  Black Americans, Native Indians and the French.  All three groups did not choose to be here.

There is no "problem" with the French in Canada that causes a high level of poverty and incarceration. Quite the reverse: the French Canadian society is extremely vibrant and successful culture (thanks largely to the very flexible and accommodating Canadian federation - the French in the US did not fair so well).

The Natives were treated extremely poorly by the European settlers. That is a historical fact and we, as a society, do have to assume some of the responsibility for helping them out of the mess they are in now.

The only question is how to do it.

I agree with the poster that some sort of redress for those natives that were abused in residential schools is necessary and appropriate. However, I am dismayed a how the process which was supposed to help true victims of physical and sexual abuse has been high jacked by lawyers claiming compensation 'cultural' abuse and other debatable injustices.

I also agree that some sort of formal recognition of native culture and society is also a useful thing to do. Negotiating treaties is also worthwhile provided they represent a final resolution to all historical agreements since these treaties could provide the basis for rebuilding Native culture.

What I don't agree with is simply throwing money at the problem. Natives have to start using the tools they already have at their disposal to improve their lot. If they can't do that then no land claim or treaty settlement is going to help. In fact, there are many bands in Canada today who are able to do that. I don't have the exact band names handy but there are many - excellent examples of what Native people are capable of with the right combination of gov't assistance and people who are willing to help themselves.

That said, the biggest problem facing natives today is alcohol - more specifically fetal alcohol syndrome. A frightening number of natives have this problem which means that they will be in and out of jail most of their lives since FAS impairs their ability to make judgments. Furthermore, these people are having more kids which also have FAS which means the problem is multiplying. I don't have any easy answers for this but I believe it will not be solved by throwing compensation money at people who will spend it all on booze and drugs.

The FAS problem means that we should expect higher than average native incarceration rates for the foreseeable future and we should not panic trying to find a quick fix to an unfixable problem

[newbie]

I agree throwing money at the problem and applying bandaids won't do it. I feel the Native people require an understanding from the "white" population and especially the Government as to what their culture entails and what led them to their substance abuse problem in the first place. And if money is going to be applied, bypass the lawyers and make finances directly available for psychologists and Native counsellors on the reserve and in Provincial Correctional Centres. Sparhawk is right though; FAS is already upon us and needs to be addressed. No easy answers.

[PocketRocket]

...we, as a society, do have to assume some of the responsibility for helping them out of the mess they are in now.

The only question is how to do it.

We, as a society, also have to determine when it's time to cut the apron strings.

IMO, land claims, etc, are a short-term bandaid.

Financial support for said reserves, likewise.

Eventually, to succeed and prosper, natives will have to come out of the little shells that the reserves represent, and join mainstream society.

Alternatively, several reserves have become prosperous by taking advantage of location to open up casinos and so forth.

But this prosperity does not always trickle down to all band members.

Natives who do wish to educate themselves have a definite leg up, they have free access to any college/university.

I wish to hell I had that.

Any native, at any time, can choose to enroll in the Canadian learning institution of his/her choice, get an education, and a career.

Combine this with not having to pay sales tax and several other perks that come with having a status card, and it makes all the excuses look a bit lame.

To me, the free education alone wipes away any excuses.

A race or culture is, after all, made up of individuals.

Any individual at any time can decide to turn his/her life around.

But it takes guts and it takes work.

Much easier to cry about all your problems and look for a handout.

[cybercoma]

Eventually, to succeed and prosper, natives will have to come out of the little shells that the reserves represent, and join mainstream society.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why should they have to give up their home, heritage and culture to be members of OUR society? They were here first and we just decided to show up and squat on their land. The aboriginal poeple just decided to let us be without bothering us and now we've decided we're going to assimilate them into our "mainstream" society? It's this kind of thinking that's the problem with our relationship with the aboriginal people of Canada.

Sure some of their land claims are ridiculous and damn near impossible to implement this late in the game (being that millions of people have settled in places like Vancouver). We realistically can't expect all of them to pack up and move so the native people of canada can move in.

On the same token though, we can't simply brush them off and say, "join mainstream society or fuck off," either. This was their land that they allowed us to prosper on and we've done nothing but turn our backs to them.

The VERY least we can do for them is give them a tax break and free education.

[cybercoma]

On the otherside why should they be given a free ride when the rest of us are stifled by paying thousands of dollars a year in taxes and education? Seems a little unfair in a society that preaches equality.

[Canuck E Stan]

What has changed to the positive for the aboriginals in the last 40 years. Nothing. And why? Because the Federal government has not put a plan in order for the natives, only throwing the dollars at the problem to keep them out of their hair for a little while longer. The same as they do with all the other problems facing Canada.Throw the dollars at health care,-no plan to solve the problem. Fisheries,day-care,ect. Just the money,no plan.

[Ramesh]

Yes there are still racists in Canada. Even on this website there are some people who seem to be racist, like takeanumber and sweal. For this reason I will not openly discuss my religion or where I came from. But I find most people in Canada are very open minded and friendly.

[Argus]

How about white Canadian society living up to its obligations and settling our First Nation people's land claims?

That would make a good beginning.

They will never dig themselves out of their situation with our holding onto their land for which they have legal claims which have never been extinguished.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not as simple as that. It's NEVER as simple as that. Many native land claims run counter to other native land claims, for example. Others are lacking in proof or even evidence, other than oral. Besides, as someone else recently pointed out, if we went by the letter of the land claim treaties natives would get that land and nothing else - no voting, no welfare, no medical care, etc. It seems to me that if we're going to give them all the benefits of being Canadians then they have to compromise some on those treaties - which were meant for separate nations.

[Argus]

What has changed to the positive for the aboriginals in the last 40 years. Nothing. And why? Because the Federal government has not put a plan in order for the natives, only throwing the dollars at the problem to keep them out of their hair for a little while longer. The same as they do with all the other problems facing Canada.Throw the dollars at health care,-no plan to solve the problem. Fisheries,day-care,ect. Just the money,no plan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The native chiefs haven't helped much. Their demands usually include total or near total independance while still holding onto all their present rights, including tax exemptions and welfare. Nor do the chiefs appear to have much interest in any form of self government which would result in them losing any of their present power.

[Argus]

First, deal with them as nation to nation.

They aren't nations, else they'd not get to vote in our elections, nor benefit from our health care and other social programs.

Second, respect their autonomy.

Even as we pay all their bills?

Third, a bit of talking and some love.

Natives are already well established in the sex trade.

[Argus]

There are three groups in North America that pose "problems".  Black Americans, Native Indians and the French.  All three groups did not choose to be here.

Deal with it. The natives aren't getting their land back. They'll have to acclimate to our society. It's that basic. The reason their lives are so crappy is because they're living in small, isolated groups in uneconomical areas where there are no jobs or industry. The reserves don't work and should be abolished.

BTW, almost all the Blacks in Canada not only chose to be here many fought very hard to get here. Nevertheless, they still are a huge problem in that by most accounts they are responsible for a huge chunk of our street crime and murders.

As for the French, their problem is arrogance. They should lose a little of that. Their language and culture are not particularly special and not particularly worthy of all the desperate efforts at retaining them.

[Argus]

Eventually, to succeed and prosper, natives will have to come out of the little shells that the reserves represent, and join mainstream society.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why should they have to give up their home, heritage and culture to be members of OUR society? They were here first and we just decided to show up and squat on their land.

So what? That was the way the world worked. They did it to each other as well. We were at least kind enough to leave them alive - something they didn't always do to their enemies.

Like it or not you can't expect isolated little groups to survive living out in the boonies. They need to join our society because that's where the jobs and opportunities and industry is. It's idiotic to suggest they should stay out in the boonies like living museum relics to trot out to tourists occasionally.

[willy]

How about white Canadian society living up to its obligations and settling our First Nation people's land claims?

Why just white Canadians? I live in Vancouver and I am not the only immigrant here. I was born here and yet I don't have the same rights as someone who has a generational line that predates mine.

Please don't elevate white people into something they are not. White people like anyone else are just active players in a dynamic country that has an evolving culture and a progressive history. White people are not a homogenous group that pulls the strings. In a multi cultural country like ours it is ridiculous to still define issues based on skin colour. Economic and political class maybe.

I do understand that the Indian act has made a very proud culture into a separate class in our Canadian society. This separation is taking very talented people with the potential to work, live, and prosper and made many dependent on the federal government. The policies have separated the reserves from the rest of the community and inhibited the globalization with the rest of the country. Culture is not a static phenomena and the institutionalized treatment of the first nations is a national shame. The government practices are propagating a second class citizenship for first nations. If you use stats on education, alcoholism, criminality etc. the policy that has existed is not working. (Not all native groups experience the same level of social problems and this is not meant to label or stigmatize them)

Treaties need to be signed, and the management of first nations needs to end. The individuals that make up these communities should receive property rights, compensation and then the separate status needs to end yesterday.

[cybercoma]

Like it or not you can't expect isolated little groups to survive living out in the boonies. They need to join our society because that's where the jobs and opportunities and industry is. It's idiotic to suggest they should stay out in the boonies like living museum relics to trot out to tourists occasionally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The point is that there wasn't a war that was lost. We didn't do battle with the aboriginal people and take their land. We showed up and hung out long past our welcome. Now we're forcing them to conform to our lifestyle because there's more of us here, when we're staying on their land with their consent. It was supposed to be held in trust to them and we've just decided it's ours and they can piss off.