Canada Welcomes Criminals as Refugees

[Iknowbest]

Today is the day when a Canadian Court with Liberal Appointed Judges will decide if criminals from the USA can remain in Canada as refugees.

These criminals are men and women who voluntarily enlisted in the USA armed forces, signed a contract with either the Army, Navy or Air Force, became eiligible to receive benefits paid for by the citizens of the USA, then slipped away from one of these forces, violated their contracts, entered Canada illegally and claimed refugee status. HUH? These criminals LIED, broke American and Canadian Laws and want to make Canada a haven for themselves and thousands of other criminals from around the world.

Is that what Canadians want? Criminals allowed in as refugees so that can rip us taxpaying Canadians off and become a threat to our neighbourhoods and country.

The pinkos in this country sure as hell want them here.

The Toronto Star is a pinko LIberal rag and supports these criminals. BARF BARF BARF !!!

[Black Dog]

Unless they are found guilty of committing a crime, they aren't criminals.

Is that what Canadians want? Criminals allowed in as refugees so that can rip us taxpaying Canadians off and become a threat to our neighbourhoods and country.

Yeah I'm sure a Quaker like Jeremy Hinzman, or any other Americans who left the U.S. rather than kill Iraqis, pose a real threat to our society.

[caesar]

Canada will welcome these conscientious objectors to enter Canada; just like we did during Vietnam. These are not persons who are trying to avoid service in defense of their country; they are being sent to die or be maimed on foreign soil for reasons they do not agree with. Welcome American soldiers who do not wish to die for American aggression and illegal invasions. The Bush administration are the criminals with their illegal invasions.

The Americans who came to Canada to avoid being sent to Vietnams; have generally become very productive Canadian citizens. Unfortunately, man American soldiers who served in Vietnam returned to the USA with drug problems and mental problems. Remember Timothy McVeigh, who came back from the first Gulf War with an agenda of hate and revenge against his own country.

[I miss Reagan]

Canada will welcome these conscientious objectors to enter Canada; just like we did during Vietnam. These are not persons who are trying to avoid service in defense of their country; they are being sent to die or be maimed on foreign soil for reasons they do not agree with. Welcome American soldiers who do not wish to die for American aggression and illegal invasions. The Bush administration are the criminals with their illegal invasions.

The Americans who came to Canada to avoid being sent to Vietnams; have generally become very productive Canadian citizens. Unfortunately, man American soldiers who served in Vietnam returned to the USA with drug problems and mental problems. Remember Timothy McVeigh, who came back from the first Gulf War with an agenda of hate and revenge against his own country.

All we are saaaaying is give peace a chance

All we are....

BUSH LIED KIDS DIED!

Altogether now...

[Michael Hardner]

Canada will welcome these conscientious objectors to enter Canada; just like we did during Vietnam. These are not persons who are trying to avoid service in defense of their country; they are being sent to die or be maimed on foreign soil for reasons they do not agree with.

Sorry, Caesar but this isn't the same thing. This is someone who enlisted, not a prisoner of conscience. I would agree with you if the US still had the draft but they do not.

A person who signs a contract should be bound to completing it, IMO.

[RB]

The Bush administration are the criminals with their illegal invasions

It is ironic to call the Bush administration criminals. We have been colonizing people to their death over history to serve and secure our self-interest, well how do you think the western world developed.

Bush is no different, with reasons of wanting to make sure the American people and the North American borders are safe, to make sure we are not the ones who would need to be free, or have some programs, like exchange oil for food.

I mean lack of oil can collapsed an entire economy. Lack of food means people are simply poor, and we always wonder how in the world did they get to be this poor.

In all the countries that have been colonized except for the few China, Germany etc people had to be freed, they were enemies, and needed to adopt to the Western way of thinking.

The media has made us fearful of certain kinds and groups of people making us believe they are threats to our lives - immigrants are the most fearful ones, they are still not ... well...Freed.

I think we don't know that folks are criminals unless there is some system for determining they are. And even then we never create a perfect system, much later we are always sorryful and have to pay some retribution.

[Guest eureka]

I cannot quite agree with that, Michael. These soldiers signed a contract to defend an guard the security of their nation. They did not sign up to sttack and murder innocents or to further the imperial ambitions of the New Rome.

It should be noted that some of these have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have been sickened by their own country's abuse of human rights.

Unfortunately, I think the Canadian Court will decide against them. That will be a black mark against our own human rights stance.

[Newfie Canadian]

These soldiers signed a contract to defend an guard the security of their nation. They did not sign up to sttack and murder innocents or to further the imperial ambitions of the New Rome.

With all due respect eureka, they signed a contract that had as it's clear proviso that they obey the orders of their superior officers and their commander in chief.

Whether we like it or not, whether we agree with it or not, Bush is the democratically elected leader.

And all this hogwash about illegal war is moot unless or until Bush and Congress are indicted by a war crimes tribunal.

The only reason these people shouldn't be sent back is if they face the death penalty for their actions, as prescribed by the SCOC.

I don't agree with the war or Bush's actions, but what did this guy expect to be doing when he enlisted?

He made his bed and didn't want to sleep in it.

Unfortunately, I think the Canadian Court will decide against them. That will be a black mark against our own human rights stance.

Again respectfully, if they are allowed to stay it would be a black mark against those legitimate refugees from tin pot dictatorships who fear for thier lives and have to fight to stay here.

Compare this Hinzman guy to a poor destitute single mother from Sudan or Rwanda.

Can anyone say that Hinzman et al should be placed in the same category as such a person?

[Black Dog]

He made his bed and didn't want to sleep in it.

In Hinzman's case, he tried to get conscientious objector status through the correct channels before, but his request was "lost". I guess the dog ate it.

I agree that it's kind of dumb to join the frickin' army and then not want to fight, but it's understandable given the U.S armed forces' pratice of luring young recruits in with big signing bonuses and promises of benefits. They make it sound, as one Marine put it, "like a frat party with automatic weapons."

[Newfie Canadian]

As I recall BD, he tried for the CO status before being sent first to Afghanistan, which most would agree was a legitimate campaign. He ended up going in a non combat role, where his application for CO (when it was found ) was denied.

I agree with you about the recruiting.

But I can't recall Hinzman using recruiting as an excuse.

[Michael Hardner]

Newfie is right on this, IMO.

And...

I agree that it's kind of dumb to join the frickin' army and then not want to fight, but it's understandable given the U.S armed forces' pratice of luring young recruits in with big signing bonuses and promises of benefits. They make it sound, as one Marine put it, "like a frat party with automatic weapons."

So it's understandable to take the big signing bonus THEN declare yourself an objector ? I think it's understandable in the same way misrepresentation and fraud are understandable, but not acceptable. And it certainly doesn't match the standard of prisoners of conscience.

[Newfie Canadian]

According to Newsworld, Hinzman's request for refugee status has been denied.

EDIT-http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Guest eureka]

I don't think that it is acceptable to say that these men should obey the commander-in-chief. That is not what anyone joins to serve his country to do. It is for the Commander-in-chief to adhere to civilized and international norms. If he steps over those, then it is for any person of conscience to defy.

This sounds more like the excuse that I gassed them because I was ordered to do so. These soldiers have shown considerable courage knowing that they will indeed be faced with severe punishment because they refused to be complicit in the murder of innocent citizens of another nation.

There is no question of waiting for indictment of their leaders. Everone knowa that will not happen unless the United States is defeated and occupied by their victims.

[Newfie Canadian]

My point is though eureka, that they had to know that they would be asked as soldiers in an army to do things they may not like or even agree with.

These soldiers have shown considerable courage knowing that they will indeed be faced with severe punishment because they refused to be complicit in the murder of innocent citizens of another nation.

But that's not entirely true is it?

They showed courage in disobeying orders they swore to obey, then skipping the country in order to avoid taking responsibility for their actions, then saying that they will be persecuted, not prosecuted but persecuted, if they return?

Come on.

Like I said, they need to talk to some refugees from Africa to find out what persecution is.

I agree about the indictments. Never going to happen.

[Guest eureka]

Soldiers may always expect to be asked to do some things that they may not like or agree with. That does not include the participation in murder of innocents.

Some of these deserters had served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Their courage is not in question: nor is their committment to the service of their country.

However, they are amongst the few who have come to understand that they are not in Iraq for legitimate reasons nor for reasons of national security. They, like most Americans, would not have known that at the first but, when they understood they acted according to conscience.

In my book, they are far more worthy than those many more who now do know and continue to obey the C- in-C in pursuit of his mad ambitions.

I really do not think persecution should enter into this - unfortunately, the law makes it so. They are to be punished and probably severely, for their humanity. A century ago, America would have welcomed such people into its arms. We shoud do the same.

[caesar]

These soldiers are told to shoot to kill and have killed many innocent civillians at roadblocks. Others have been instructed to torture prisoners; then some are prosecuted for this same torture (scapegoats to take the pressure off their government)

These persons joined their military under the belief that their orders would be coming from a civilized nation following international laws. They have been severely disappointed. They have a right to fight for their own lives and mental and physical health.

[Newfie Canadian]

I really do not think persecution should enter into this - unfortunately, the law makes it so. They are to be punished and probably severely, for their humanity.

Well, that's the system, and it is a card Mr. Hinzman played.

Mr. Hinzman joined a group, the US military of his own free will (although I remember him saying somewhere his father pushed him in that direction). There has been no evidence presented that I know of suggesting that he was duped into joining, or that he misunderstood his obligations, or that he never knew or understood the UCMJ.

All indications are he is an intelligent young man and he knew what he was getting into.

He knew when he joined that he was in until his tour was up.

He left that group illegally. He has broken a law of a sovereign nation and fled their jurisdiction to claim, of all things, refugee status for fear of punishment and persecution.

The only possible reason in the world not to extradite Mr. Hinzman to the US is the death penalty. The SCOC has upheld the extradition treaty with the US in cases where the death penalty is a possibility if the US jurisdiction agrees to remove the death penalty option. Mr. Hinzman on his own website says he would most likely go to jail.

The US hasn't executed a deserter in over 50 years.

The refugee board said:

The Refugee Protection Division (“RPD”) found Mr. Hinzman, his wife and son not to be Convention refugees or persons in need of protection and rejected their claims for refugee protection.

The RPD found that the claimants would be afforded the full protection of a fair and independent military and civilian judicial process in the U.S. As a result they had not rebutted the presumption of state protection and their claims for refugee protection must fail. The RPD also dealt with other matters in the public interest as they had been raised, including that Mr. Hinzman was not a conscientious objector and that the punishment Mr. Hinzman would likely receive as a result of his desertion was not excessive or disproportionately severe.

Mr. Hinzman is not a refugee.

I don't know. It's after midnight and I'm tired.

I may be babbling.

If so I apologize.

Good night.

[PocketRocket]

  Today is the day when a Canadian Court with Liberal Appointed Judges will decide if criminals from the USA can remain in Canada as refugees.

And Hintzman's claim was denied. Hopefully, that makes you happy.

  Is that what Canadians want? Criminals allowed in as refugees so that can rip us taxpaying Canadians off and become a threat to our neighbourhoods and country. 

Well, he's here with his family, has secured a residence, and a job. It seems that he's supporting himself, so that invalidates your point about "ripping off the taxpayer".

Please explain how he is a threat to his neighbours, or the country.

As for him being a criminal, answer me this; is the war in Iraq legal, or illegal???

Who decides whether it's legal or illegal???

If it is illegal, then is a soldier who agrees to go over there culpable in the crime committed in waging an illegal war???

The pinkos in this country sure as hell want them here.

Ah yes. A good, constructive way to open up a dialogue is to start throwing names around.

Well done. I applaud your wordsmanship. It all seems so clear to me now.

The Toronto Star is a pinko LIberal rag and supports these criminals.

And I always thought the Star was black and white and read all over, not pink. Maybe I need new glasses.

And how can you say it supports criminals??? I never once read anything in the Star supporting GWB and his little pet invasion.

BARF BARF BARF !!! 

Go buy some gravol. It might help with your nausea.

Hey, it just occured to me, Gravol pills are pink too, so you probably won't be wanting them.

Oh well, try some mint tea.

Who was it that said "Don't feed the Trolls"???

[Iknowbest]

These soldiers are told to shoot to kill and have killed many innocent civillians at roadblocks. Others have been instructed to torture prisoners; then some are prosecuted for this same torture (scapegoats to take the pressure off their government)

These persons joined their military under the belief that their orders would be coming from a civilized nation following international laws. They have been severely disappointed. They have a right to fight for their own lives and mental and physical health.

This USA deserter is a coward, a pinko and an absolute criminal. He joined the US Army so that he could get a college education for free which he did and then broke the law in the USA by deserting and violating his contract, lied to Canadian Immigration officials which means he broke Canadian Law and idiot pinkos like you defend this jerk! Good grief.

Thank You President Bush for liberating Iraq and stopping the murders and genocide that Saddam Hussein and his pinko supporters from Canada from totally destroying the population and culture of Iraq and finish building his WMD.

The remnants of the WMD are hidden in Syria la di dah dah. You Canadian pinkos don't like that and that is why you vote Liberal.

This country of ours is going rapidly down the toilet. No guts no glory no intelligence just lefty BS.

110,000 Canadian men and women died in two world wars and for what? If those heroes hadn't put their lives up for sacrifice then you freaking pinkos would be saying every time you come on a forum likes this " Heil Hitler " and would not be allowed to voice your opinion against nazism otherwise you would become another statistic like the 6 million jews that were murdered.

You pinkos are sickening! Get the hell out of my country!!

[PocketRocket]

This USA deserter is a coward, a pinko and an absolute criminal. 

You really like that word "pinko" don't you??? Something in your past, perhaps??? Were you bitten by a pink poodle as a child???

Interesting how you label the man as a criminal, when he hasn't even been tried, let alone convicted, yet.

Have you now been appointed judge and jury???

He joined the US Army so that he could get a college education for free

Like so many others before him.

and then broke the law in the USA by deserting and violating his contract,

When you consider that the UN and many MANY nations consider Iraq to be an illegal war under international law, the it could be argued that Bush broke international law and violated this man's trust in ordering him to fight in an illegal war.

lied to Canadian Immigration officials which means he broke Canadian Law and idiot pinkos like you defend this jerk! 

And exactly how did he lie to Canadian Immigration??? He said he wanted to come here to avoid fighting in Iraq. Where is the lie??? Do you think he actually wanted to come here simply to enjoy the sub-zero temperatures???

  Good grief.

Seeing the frequency of your use of the colour pink, I am inclined to say the same thing.

  Thank You President Bush for liberating Iraq

I have to agree that the removal of Saddam is a good thing. My beef with Bush is over his hypocrisy. His premise for starting the war was WMD's, then it changed to Saddam being a "threat" to the US. Later, we were told that it was a war of liberation.

Which is it?? When you tell the truth, you don't have to come up with a better story when your lies have been shot down.

Bush has changed his story more often than you change your underwear, at least 3 times in the past 2 years.

  The remnants of the WMD are hidden in Syria la di dah dah.

Uh-huh. Yup. Just like Bush told you to believe. Just like he knew "exactly" where they would be found when he invaded.

Yup. You are SO right.

  You Canadian pinkos don't like that and that is why you vote Liberal.

You really DO have a fixation with that colour, don't you??

Well, rejoice, my friend. Easter is only 2 days away. Maybe you'll get some nice pink Easter eggs. Maybe a basket of chocolates with a pink ribbon.

Hopefully, that will make you feel a bit less angry. :angry:

  This country of ours is going rapidly down the toilet.

As is your reasoning.

No guts no glory no intelligence

Pot, meet kettle.

just lefty BS.

And our esteemed leader of the Right, Mr Harper, is so much more reasonable and resolute.

110,000 Canadian men and women died in two world wars and for what? 

To stop a madman who was invading neighbouring countries with no justification.

I fail to see the parallel to the current situation. Was Saddam invading anyone??? The only invasion that occured was initiated by Bush, and the reasons he gave for the invasion changed several times. What was his real motivation in invading Iraq???

I'm sure we'll never know, but I am equally sure that it's none of the reasons he gave us.

If those heroes hadn't put their lives up for sacrifice then you freaking pinkos would be saying every time you come on a forum likes this " Heil Hitler " and would not be allowed to voice your opinion against nazism otherwise you would become another statistic like the 6 million jews that were murdered.

And this relates to the topic of this thread how??? Oh well, it gives you a chance to say "pinko" again, and I guess that's all the justification you need.

You pinkos are sickening! 

Hey, there's that "pinko" word again. You know, it's a scientifically proven fact that the colour pink is mentally soothing. Maybe you should consider re-doing your home in pink. It might help you with your anger-management.

Get the hell out of my country!! 

I must be missing something here. I had no idea that Canada was now your sole property.

Remind me again exactly how you came to be our sovereign ruler???

[Guest eureka]

They died so that the voices of people would be heard above the din of the "haters."

They died so that sociopaths like you would never be in a position to stifle the ideals of justice and democracy.

Sure, they also died so that you could be free to rant. But they died so that your rants would not overwhelm decency and humanity:they died to ensure institutions strong enough to contain you in your bubble.

[PocketRocket]

EUREKA, seeing as my post went up only 2 minutes before yours, I am assuming it was directed at IKNOWBEST's previous post.

(IKNOWBEST. Now that nickname is an oxymoron if ever I've read one)

[Guest eureka]

Nah! I was directing it at you!

My 17 month old grandaughter is getting pretty good with her colour recognition and her favourite is pink. She loved to say the word and only reluctantly identifies Blue as Blue and a few others the same.

Reminds me of why I actually read Ikb's posts. He is just learning the colours of politics.

[Hawk]

You really like that word "pinko" don't you??? Something in your past, perhaps??? Were you bitten by a pink poodle as a child???

Interesting how you label the man as a criminal, when he hasn't even been tried, let alone convicted, yet.

Have you now been appointed judge and jury???

First part was irrelevant to the discussion so I will ignore it.

The man is labelled as a criminal because deserting the army is a crime, in fact a century ago he would be shot on sight for doing just that so yeah I would say it is safe to assume he is a criminal. If you need a judge and jury to contrive that then perhaps you should invest in some independant thought.

Like so many others before him.

And that proves what? You failed to address the point, reread it for real this time.

When you consider that the UN and many MANY nations consider Iraq to be an illegal war under international law, the it could be argued that Bush broke international law and violated this man's trust in ordering him to fight in an illegal war.

Argue away, there is no proof and therefore it is not a valid point. There was not enough proof to prove Iraq was an illegal war, never did the USA agree to be run by the UN and therefore it doesn't need the permission of the UN to ensure its national security. That is why the USA 'elects' officials for the USA's interests, not the UN's.

Not everyone wants a global ruling elite, and I dont mean the USA I mean the UN.

And exactly how did he lie to Canadian Immigration??? He said he wanted to come here to avoid fighting in Iraq. Where is the lie??? Do you think he actually wanted to come here simply to enjoy the sub-zero temperatures???

Thats true he didn't lie to Canadian Immigration, but then again he is a traitor to his own country... why would you want a traitor to join your ranks? I personally dont want any turncoats in Canada, we have enough of those already.

Seeing the frequency of your use of the colour pink, I am inclined to say the same thing.

Blah, more nonsense.

I have to agree that the removal of Saddam is a good thing. My beef with Bush is over his hypocrisy. His premise for starting the war was WMD's, then it changed to Saddam being a "threat" to the US. Later, we were told that it was a war of liberation.

Which is it?? When you tell the truth, you don't have to come up with a better story when your lies have been shot down.

Bush has changed his story more often than you change your underwear, at least 3 times in the past 2 years.

Actually it was started for a number of reasons, the only problem you are experiencing is that the media concentrated on one thing at a time.. leading to the impression that the Bush administration was changing its' story, and since most of the media outlets are run by anti-American socialists (or at least funded by them) its not hard to imagine why they would want to paint the Republicans this way.

Never did Bush lie about Iraq, you can't prove it so dont waste time by trying to speculate or assume anything.

Uh-huh. Yup. Just like Bush told you to believe. Just like he knew "exactly" where they would be found when he invaded.

Yup. You are SO right.

When did he say that? You can't prove anything so please stop acting like you can.

You really DO have a fixation with that colour, don't you??

Well, rejoice, my friend. Easter is only 2 days away. Maybe you'll get some nice pink Easter eggs. Maybe a basket of chocolates with a pink ribbon.

Hopefully, that will make you feel a bit less angry. :angry:

This is the 3rd time in a single post you have chosen to attack his use of the word 'pinko'. That is truly pathetic, please learn to debate or stop wasting everyone's time (yes, it does take time to read through that dribble)

As is your reasoning.

You do have a valid point, it is based on perspective. However, as Canada's economy is flailing, and our currently reigning government has been in office 5 terms with countless scandals and the very factual increase in crime and poverty during its' reign I can see where he/she is coming from when he/she says Canada is going down the toilet... especially when people defend such a government.

Pot, meet kettle.

Actually that was a very bad responce to a very real issue. The Canadian military is in shambles, the Canadian economy is also in shambles, our government embarrasses us consistently on the global stage, and our relations with our closest and most important allies has never been worse in the last century.

And our esteemed leader of the Right, Mr Harper, is so much more reasonable and resolute.

Please do expound on this, since you seem to think Harper is such a threat to Canada... how do you reason this? Have you seen him in power? Have you noticed scandals at his hands? What exactly has Harper done that makes you believe him to be so damaging if elected?

I am interested because you seem to think Harper is worse than re-electing a failed government of proven thieves, con-artists, and lying cowards.

To stop a madman who was invading neighbouring countries with no justification.

I fail to see the parallel to the current situation. Was Saddam invading anyone??? The only invasion that occured was initiated by Bush, and the reasons he gave for the invasion changed several times. What was his real motivation in invading Iraq???

I'm sure we'll never know, but I am equally sure that it's none of the reasons he gave us.

There were several reasons he invaded Iraq, maybe you should know a subject before debating it.

As for the World Wars, you are right we did it to stop a madman... but I believe the point your quoted poster was trying to make is that the very ideals, morals, and principles those service men/women fought and died for are now seemingly taken for granted in our current society.. even to the point of being ignored or outlawed.

And this relates to the topic of this thread how??? Oh well, it gives you a chance to say "pinko" again, and I guess that's all the justification you need.

4th time, this is disgusting. Just ignore the word, how hard is it to do that?

Hey, there's that "pinko" word again. You know, it's a scientifically proven fact that the colour pink is mentally soothing. Maybe you should consider re-doing your home in pink. It might help you with your anger-management.

5th?? Wow, you really must not have much more to talk about... I will ignore any more of these pointless quotes.

I must be missing something here. I had no idea that Canada was now your sole property.

Remind me again exactly how you came to be our sovereign ruler???

Thats true he/she isn't, but he/she does have the right to express his/her frustration with the obvious ignorance of a great number of Canadians. Dependance on the CBC for 'unbiased' newcasting has left a generation of Canadians that would rather be emotionally devoid of facts rather than face the truth.

[caesar]

Argue away, there is no proof and therefore it is not a valid point. There was not enough proof to prove Iraq was an illegal war, never did the USA agree to be run by the UN and therefore it doesn't need the permission of the UN to ensure its national security. That is why the USA 'elects' officials for the USA's interests, not the UN's.

Not everyone wants a global ruling elite, and I dont mean the USA I mean the UN

There is plenty of proof; unfortunately the UN agreed to allow ?Americans to escape liability for international war crimes. ?????? Fortunately, that will soon come to an end. Never should have been allowed.

We do want an international organization to curb the aggression of nations. The USA was instrumental in setting up the UN which it now likes to ignore when ever it disagrees; yet still ask for financial and monetary assistance in cleaning up the mess it made.

Invading Iraq has nothing to do with USA security. Iraq posed no threat to the USA.

What we don't want is one nation ruling the world. That is a global dictatorship.