Terry Schiavo

[Black Dog]

But she wasn't there at all according to the doctors. The lights were on but nobody was home, I thought. The autopsy will hopefully end the debate. I understand what Ceasar is saying, if Michael was compassionate he would have given up custody of her and let her family pay the bills and take care of her.

It wasn't up to Michael. The original court battle was over what Terri wanted. In that case, and all other subsequent cases the court determined the evidence was clear and convincing that Terri would choose not to continue to be kept alive. To me, that nullifies any discussion over what each side wanted: it's what she would have wanted that matters.

[I Miss Trudeau]

I cannot agree with this slow drawn out death being very humane

Appeals to the inhumane nature of her death have been thrown around ad nauseam by the radical right throughout this whole affair. Its really rather disingenuous of them, given that the suffering could easily be alleviated with one simple injection. Of course, the radical rights own moralizing on that issue is precisely why people continue to suffer horribly on the way to their inevitable death.

[caesar]

Appeals to the inhumane nature of her death have been thrown around ad nauseam by the radical right throughout this whole affair. Its really rather disingenuous of them, given that the suffering could easily be alleviated with one simple injection. Of course, the radical rights own moralizing on that issue is precisely why people continue to suffer horribly on the way to their inevitable death.

This is not a right / left issue. No, unfortunately that is called euthanasia and is still illegal in most of the USA.

[caesar]

It wasn't up to Michael. The original court battle was over what Terri wanted. In that case, and all other subsequent cases the court determined the evidence was clear and convincing that Terri would choose not to continue to be kept alive. To me, that nullifies any discussion over what each side wanted: it's what she would have wanted that matters.

Of course it was; he initiated the court procedures and it was only Michael's testimony that made the claims that Terri did not want this type of medical help.

[I Miss Trudeau]

No, unfortunately that is called euthanasia and is still illegal in most of the USA.

Yes, I realize that. And my post pretty much sums up why that is.

[caesar]

Michael was compassionate he would have given up custody of her and let her family pay the bills and take care of her.

Although, I think they offered that; her bills were taken care of by the lawsuit settlement plus 300 thousand to Michael alone. He has not given Terri the death with dignity that his lawyer refers to; it was death in a carnival setting. He should have worked with her family not gone to court as soon as he safely got his settlement and new love.

Why cannot he even now make some concessions; after not allowing her blood family to be present during Terri's last minutes. At least let them have her ashes so they can lay her to rest where they can visit and make peace with her death.

[caesar]

QUOTE 

No, unfortunately that is called euthanasia and is still illegal in most of the USA.

Yes, I realize that. And my post pretty much sums up why that is.

That is only part of why. Many people do not trust doctor's after all the mistakes they have been known to make or families making this decision for financial reasons rather than failing health and pain.

I do support euthanasia where the pain makes life unbearable however strict guidelines would need to be made and kept to avoid abuse or medical errors.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Why cannot he even now make some concessions; after not allowing her blood family to be present during Terri's last minutes.

After the "carnival" they created, they should be locked up or beaten in a dark alley, not at her bedside trying to shove ice cubes or food down her throat.

At least let them have her ashes so they can lay her to rest where they can visit and make peace with her death.

The parents were down right nasty through this whole ordeal. It would take a saint to throw them the smallest bone at this point. The price of being hysterical and unreasonable is that few people will feel compelled to treat you reasonably.

[Fortunata]

The parents were down right nasty through this whole ordeal. It would take a saint to throw them the smallest bone at this point. The price of being hysterical and unreasonable is that few people will feel compelled to treat you reasonably.

That pretty much sums it all up. You reap what you sow.

[caesar]

The parents were down right nasty through this whole ordeal. It would take a saint to throw them the smallest bone at this point. The price of being hysterical and unreasonable is that few people will feel compelled to treat you reasonably.

Are you a mother??? How would you react if you honestly believed that something more could be done for your child. That she did not need to die? None of us were there and really don't know who started what; or who dug their heels in too early; probably never will. I would imagine the lawyers on both sides of the issue did little to find a compromise. The parents were described as loving parents and were close friends with Michael prior. I don't honestly think any of us can make an honest judgement from the snippets shown on tv.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Are you a mother???  How would you react if you honestly believed that something more could be done for your child.

Nope. I really can't say how I would react. But what I can say is that if I turned the death of my daughter into a media circus, attacked the character of my son in law for over a week with baseless accusations, and just generally acted like an hysterical idiot, it would be absurd of me to expect that son in law to go out of his way to accomodate me.

None of us were there and really don't  know who started what; or who dug their heels in too early; probably never will.

Nope. But we did see the circus develop due to the antics of the two parents. We didn't see how it started, but we sure got a glimpse of who turned into a public event. We did see a rather nasty attempt at character assissination. To me, that speaks volumes about the character of the parents. You're free to disagree.

The parents were described as loving parents and were close friends with Michael prior.

Fair enough. But you know, if my best friend spent over a week making up nasty stories about me in the media, its safe to say that the friendship would be over. And if he came to me at the end of that week and asked a favor, you can guess where I'd tell him to go. I think even you, Caesar, would scoff at any suggestion that I ought to compromise on anything with that person at the end of that week.

I don't honestly think any of us can make an honest judgement from the snippets shown on tv.

I disagree.

[Argus]

This is not a right / left issue.

I agree. It is a smart/stupid issue.

[Black Dog]

I agree. It is a smart/stupid issue.

Agreed.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I can understand that allowing a life to end when there is no hope and the patient is suffering; however, I do not feel this should be done on one person's consensus when there is no written record of the patient"s wishes.

You persist in ignoring the fact that it is NOT one person who made that decision. It is over a dozen courts.

(You also persist in ignoring my questions of what you propose to do for decisions instead relying on courts to make them.)

I begin to wonder whether you want your opinions to be taken seriously at all.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Of course it was;  he initiated the court procedures and it was only Michael's testimony that made the claims that Terri did not want this type of medical help.

BTW, where are you getting these supposed facts?

How do you know that his testimony was the only evidence?

How do you know Terri could swallow jello?

[The Terrible Sweal]

He has not given Terri the death with dignity that his lawyer refers to; it was death in a carnival setting.

Her family caused that, not him.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I would imagine the lawyers on both sides of the issue did little to find a compromise.

What a wonderful imagination you have. Nice how you just assume perfectly decent people are automatically acting poorly. With such a negative imagination, maybe you should give it a rest before it convinces you life isn't worth living.

[caesar]

What a wonderful imagination you have. Nice how you just assume perfectly decent people are automatically acting poorly. With such a negative imagination, maybe you should give it a rest before it convinces you life isn't worth living.

I guess you don't know as many lawyers that I do.

What do you think the lawyers are in it for????

Money

[caesar]

You persist in ignoring the fact that it is NOT one person who made that decision. It is over a dozen courts.

Mainly one judge

[The Terrible Sweal]

What a wonderful imagination you have. Nice how you just assume perfectly decent people are automatically acting poorly. With such a negative imagination, maybe you should give it a rest before it convinces you life isn't worth living.

I guess you don't know as many lawyers that I do.

What do you think the lawyers are in it for????

Money

What is your occupation? Why do you do it, whatever it is?

I think your attitude about lawyers is nothing short of raw bigotry.

[caesar]

What is your occupation? Why do you do it, whatever it is?

I think your attitude about lawyers is nothing short of raw bigotry.

Let's not exaggerate, shall we. Raw bigotry for saying many Lawyers are there to make as much money as they can in a situation. Especially down in the USA where people and lawyers are sue crazy. Suing when someone burns themselves with coffee while driving was one of the most ridiculous but made the lawyer and his dumb client losts of money.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Let's not exaggerate, shall we. Raw bigotry for saying many Lawyers are there to make as much money as they can in a situation.

You made a sweeping generalization about individual people based on presumed negative characteristics of the group. Sounds like bigotry to me.

[caesar]

mmmhmmm and all OJ"s lawyers thought he really was innocent

[kimmy]

I strongly doubt that the Schiavo mess was precipitated by lawyers. It was a clash of wills between two groups whose beliefs were mutually exclusive. I believe that the lawyers in this case did what their clients wished them to do.

And why bring poor Johnny Cochrane into this? The poor man died last week. I don't think dragging his name through the mud so soon after his death is particularly nice. And it doesn't further your argument either.

-kimmy

{"If the message don't fit, caesar's full of shit." -as Mr. Cochrane would say.}

[Cameron]

It was in the news almost everyday, now there is nothing more of T.S. I know she died, but it's funny how the media moves on quicker now adays.