Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 91
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted

I agree August.

A breth of fresh air is desparately needed in Ottawa.

The apparent next choice, as of the national polls, is the CPC.

So it comes back to the original question, is Harper the right person for the job?

He may be, but I don't think the combined party is mature enough yet to get him the chance, as evidenced by the mistakes of the last election and of the last couple of weeks.

So, if knn don't mind I ask: assuming the CPC don't make an earth shattering gain in the next electiona and assuming Harper steps down, who would be able to step in to get them over the hump?

Stronach, Prentice, McKay, Reynolds, Lord, Harris?

It's called honesty.

Honesty in Ottawa. That's a rarity.

"If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors

Posted

Be clear, the job he is going for is PM. The track record of this and the last PM is not good for sending clear and positive messages.

Example PMPM yesturday:

Occupation of Lebanon

Sometimes you don't have to be perfect, just better than the oppositon.

Posted

"A breath of fresh air," August! You don't know your Quebec as well as you think you do.

In 1976, Quebec was just the first shot away from civil war. Valium was the contemptuous (and racist) offering of the revolutionaries.

Posted
Be clear, the job he is going for is PM. The track record of this and the last PM is not good for sending clear and positive messages.

Exactly. After the two parties merged (and Harper won the leadership) the expected that it would require at least two federal elections to form a government.

In all honesty, if you went back to this time last year, would you have predicted a Liberal minority and the Tories holding onto 99 seats? I sure as hell wouldn't have.

The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees.

-June Callwood-

Posted
BigGunner Posted: Feb 19 2005, 02:20 AM 

Some of us are cheering on people like Stephen Harper. The more that Harper spews tripe like that in public, the more people will be turned off from his party.

This is why I cannot fathom why, at such a crucial point in history, did the “new” Conservative party choose a man like Stephen Harper to represent them.

Surely, if they had any smarts at all, they would have picked a leader who was more central to the party’s position and ideals.

Posted
Newfie Canadian Posted: Feb 19 2005, 09:28 AM 

The apparent next choice, as of the national polls, is the CPC.

So it comes back to the original question, is Harper the right person for the job?

He may be, but I don't think the combined party is mature enough yet to get him the chance, as evidenced by the mistakes of the last election and of the last couple of weeks.

Not from the Polls I’ve seen. The CPC is slipping badly. I believe they've fallen down to 26% since the election.

Harper Slipping

Newfie Canadian Posted: Feb 19 2005, 09:28 AM 

So, if knn don't mind I ask: assuming the CPC don't make an earth shattering gain in the next electiona and assuming Harper steps down, who would be able to step in to get them over the hump?

Stronach, Prentice, McKay, Reynolds, Lord, Harris?

Not that I think the Tory camp has any great potential leaders, but since you asked...

It would be difficult for Belinda Stronach to take on such a role, what with her limited experience in politics. I honestly believe that if Peter McKay had been chosen at the leadership convention, the Conservatives would be in power today; the Liberals were ripe for the picking. Bernard Lord has great potential and if he plays his cards right, I could see him the next leader.

Personally, my favourites would be Ralph Klein or Mike Harris! Gads, what a heyday the Liberals would have knocking either of these two characters off the ballot box in the next election. Central Canada would be lined up at the polling booths early in the morning to enjoy getting rid of them so fast, it would make your head spin.

Posted
This is why I cannot fathom why, at such a crucial point in history, did the “new” Conservative party choose a man like Stephen Harper to represent them.

Surely, if they had any smarts at all, they would have picked a leader who was more central to the party’s position and ideals.

IOW.......a leader more Liberal?

I fail to understand why some can't make the conection:

Harper = Conservative

Conservative Party = Conservative positions and ideals

Is that too great a leap? :rolleyes:

The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees.

-June Callwood-

Posted
Stoker Posted on Feb 19 2005, 02:05 PM

Conservative Party = Conservative positions and ideals

As I stated:

"...they would have picked a leader who was more central to the (Conservative) party’s position and ideals."

Most Canadians perceive Harper as being so far to the RIGHT of the Conservative party's position that he is falling off the edge!

Posted
As I stated:

"...they would have picked a leader who was more central to the (Conservative) party’s position and ideals."

Most Canadians perceive Harper as being so far to the RIGHT of the Conservative party's position that he is falling off the edge!

Can you define the CPC's "position and ideals"?

In all likelyhood, some members of the CPC might see Harper as a moderate and some might even think of him as "progressive" (soft).

Judging by the result of the vote held by CPC members, I'd say Harper represents the "positions and ideals" of the majoriy of Conservatives..........if he didn't, Belinda or Tony would be leading the party. :rolleyes:

The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees.

-June Callwood-

Posted
Stoker Posted: Feb 19 2005, 04:25 PM 

Can you define the CPC's "position and ideals"?

At this point, can anyone?

I suppose we'll all just have to wait for the Montreal convention to determine what the party is going to do with Harper's wanderings!

Party policy will become clearer after that, but will it be clear enough to change the public's perception of a radical right wing nut running the party!

Posted
At this point, can anyone?

I suppose we'll all just have to wait for the Montreal convention to determine what the party is going to do with Harper's wanderings!

Then how can you say:

Surely, if they had any smarts at all, they would have picked a leader who was more central to the party’s position and ideals.

To this right-wing nut, that looks like a contradiction.....

Party policy will become clearer after that, but will it be clear enough to change the public's perception of a radical right wing nut running the party!

........the same people that picked Harper will also help to decide the party policy........wrt the public, would you say that the "public's perception' of the CPC improved, under Harper, when compared to the CA under Day and the PC under Clark?

The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees.

-June Callwood-

Posted
Not from the Polls I’ve seen. The CPC is slipping badly. I believe they've fallen down to 26% since the election.

What I meant by that was the CPC is the closest party, on a national level, to offering a viable alternative to the Liberals. I believe the poll you cite saw the NDP around 16%. Like the CPC, they haven't been able to capitalize on the Liberal scandal(s?), but that's a different thread.

I think Lord would work wonders for the party. He's bilingual, young and got NB on a pretty good track.

Harris has too much baggage in vote rich Ontario.

The CPC may look more attractive, as may Harper, after their policy convention, in which Harper, the party and the public will hopefully find out what the party stands for.

The CPC was unfortunate to fight an election without having such a convention, especially considering that some of the old PC party and the Alliance party seemed to differ in certain areas of public policy.

"If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors

Posted
Stoker Posted: Feb 19 2005, 05:09 PM 

.......the same people that picked Harper will also help to decide the party policy........

Oh, I pray so. Let's hope the 'moderate's' don't have any say in setting the party's policy.

If the rest of the party reflects the views of Stephen Harper, then the Liberals are a shoo-in the next time around! :)

Posted
Newfie Canadian Posted: Feb 19 2005, 05:23 PM 

What I meant by that was the CPC is the closest party, on a national level, to offering a viable alternative to the Liberals...

I think Lord would work wonders for the party. He's bilingual, young and got NB on a pretty good track.

Harris has too much baggage in vote rich Ontario.

I agree with you.

Bernard Lord would be a serious threat to the Liberals. As you say, he's bilingual, fairly young, intelligent, a good speaker, and knowledgeable in political savvy.

Of course, he wouldn't do well in redneck Alberta, but he could carry the east, central, and B.C. and that would be enough to make him the next P.M.

Posted
Surely, if they had any smarts at all, they would have picked a leader who was more central to the party’s position and ideals.

Who? Name one person.

You can't use Lord because going into the leadership race he was neck deep in a controversy over insurance premiums increasing. If I remember Day was also young and bilingual and look how he turned out.

He is and was the best man for the job.

I can also tell you in the next election if his competition is the same two there now he will do just fine.

Posted
Dream on Willy. Harper is a liability. He has foot in mouth disease. He must have bought his college degree. Must have cost a bundle.

Are you suggesting that the CPC (and by proxy, CA and PC) have not had succes under Harper?

The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees.

-June Callwood-

Posted
So what exactly did he say?

I found it.

"Let us not forget it was the Liberal party that said none is too many when it came to Jews fleeing from Hitler. It was the Liberal party that interned Japanese Canadians in camps on Canada's West Coast, an act Pierre Trudeau refused to apologize or make restitution for, leaving it to Brian Mulroney to see justice done," Harper said.

Do you see an inaccracy here? They were Liberal governments.

I read that quote and thought as you did, Willy, that it's a fact: they were Liberal governments that did all those things.

You know what, comments like these are enough to drive any student of poltical science crazy.

A LIBERAL GOVERNMENT DID NOT DO ALL THOSE THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!

They happened while a LIBERAL government was in power, just like most of everything else that has happened in the past 100 years.

If memory serves me correctly from my history and politics degree forthcoming, the Conservatives of the time were a hell of a lot more inclined to act in anyway necessary to safegaurd the monarchy.

They voted in the same strength, if not more, than the Liberals for the institution of the War Measures Act.

What the hell do you think, Parliament in World War Two was 100% Liberals.

Posted

I am in such a let down mode over thinking that August and Willy were actually credible discussion board members that I am going to have to post twice.

DAMMIT

Posted

"Let us not forget it was the Conservative party that said none is too many when it came to Chinese immigrants crossing the Pacific to die making our railway. It was the Conservative party that forced Chinnese Canadians into rail camps on Canada's plains and mountains where they were sent to their deaths by the thousands," says Grantler.

Let's keep going. Let's see how much historical trash we can dig up and quit recognizing the modern world in which we live.

Posted

Grantler,

I will try an not be condescending, as you think you hold exclusive knowledge and yet you do not.

August has a better memory of history than I do. I have seen him demonstrate it on many occasions. I do not always agree with his point of view but I would never accuse him of not being thoughtful.

As for myself, all I can say is you missed the point completely.

The Liberals have been very effective in painting the Conservative Party intolerant, racist and exclusive.

The point...

All political parties have individuals and histories that don't put them in a good light. This is not exclusive to one or the other. Note even the icon of the NDP/CCF Tommy Douglas has some horribly outdated views on women and minority rights.

Parties do not live in a vacuum of information where they define their reputation; the other parties actively work on defining the competition. The Liberals have done a very good job of this. To be critical of my own affiliation for a moment the Conservative/Alliance/Reformers have never been able to stay on message.

I have witnessed the intention of policy, plans and messaging only to see it spun into a mess that can be quite embarrassing. This is not a complaint; it is just a reality of politics. Conservatives will need to be more unified and stay on message if we ever want to form government.

Posted
willy Posted: Feb 19 2005, 07:15 PM 

... If I remember Day was also young and bilingual and look how he turned out.

Heavenly days! First Stockwell Day, and now Stephen Harper.

Conservatives sure do know how to pick 'em!

Posted

To Willy and August...

I didn't mean what I said about you two earlier. It was just a little ploy to try and make a point that what Harper says is no better than what I say. It is very easy to twist history into whatever you want it to state.

I reality, I do value both of your opinions and have indeed read as many as I can in order to gain a better understanding of where you both are coming from, since they are different than my views..

All I was trying to point out was that history can be skewed in many different ways for whatever purpose you like.

Hopefully you understand my intentions in writing what I did as to make a point.

Posted
willy Posted: Feb 19 2005, 10:47 PM 

The Liberals have been very effective in painting the Conservative Party intolerant, racist and exclusive.

Poppycock. The Liberals don't have to "paint" them at all! The Conservatives, and particularly the Reform/Alliance, do an excellent job of showing just how racist and exclusive they can be, all by themselves.

The point...

All political parties have individuals and histories that don't put them in a good light...

But the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives have made it an art. When did you ever see those parties vote in favour of passing any bills that granted rights to minority groups? Or as Reform/Alliance/Conservatives love to call it - "special rights"!

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,857
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    Tony Eveland
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...