Non-white males - people or not?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Slavik44,

Whoops, I was going to condemn this thread until I realized...Troll! Complete with his own response (Digby). The best response is no response at all.

[August1991]

Whoops, I was going to condemn this thread until I realized...Troll! Complete with his own response (Digby). The best response is no response at all.

Fools rush in....

Part of being a person is being recognized as a person, if you are not recognized as a person...then in theory you are not a person. You cannot gurantee someone all the rights of a person and then call them Sub-Person that is not giving them all the rights of a person. so in theory or in practice what you propose is an impossibility.

Hmmm...

How about this (true story). Factory makes green garbage bags. Union Carbide hires the factory to make bags for sale under Union Carbide name. Factory's capacity is larger than Union Carbide order. So, factory makes and sells identical garbage bags under No Name Brand. (In fact, Union Carbide insists on this.)

Now the bags are identical in every respect except the name.

Whaddya think?

Also the bible hits right on when predicting the modern day world . It even predicts this push of homosexualality that we seem to be argueing .

So Digby, you believe the quotes above are God's opinions because the Bible makes accurate predictions about the modern world?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

QUOTE 

Whoops, I was going to condemn this thread until I realized...Troll! Complete with his own response (Digby). The best response is no response at all. 

Fools rush in....

Heroes and EMS workers, also... one must be aware of the consequences before one takes action. Colour me gone.

[Slavik44]

How about this (true story).  Factory makes green garbage bags.  Union Carbide hires the factory to make bags for sale under Union Carbide name.  Factory's capacity is larger than Union Carbide order.  So, factory makes and sells identical garbage bags under No Name Brand.  (In fact, Union Carbide insists on this.)

Now the bags are identical in every respect except the name.

Whaddya think?

Interesting response August my worry would be that Garbage bags don't have feelings, I have not talked to my garbage bags, about that, recently so maybe they do. However could those garbage bags, if they have feelings, feel slighted at being given a lesser name even though they deserved to, and should be given equal name recognition? As well a fundemental right of those bags made to union carbide specifics is for those bags to be recognized as union carbide not doing so would violate an essential right of those "No Name Bags". Being called a person is a fundemental right of being a person denying a person that right, means they do not have the full rights of a person. I argue that for a person to have the rights of a person they must have the right to be recognized as a person.

[August1991]

However could those garbage bags, if they have feelings, feel slighted at being given a lesser name even though they deserved to, and should be given equal name recognition?

I kinda came to the same conclusion. I was also wondering at what point people would clue into the fact (the basic issue here) that the bags were identical.

Which raises another (true) anecdote along the same lines:

In NYC, guy on sidewalk selling knock-off watches. I stop, look, point at the Cartier: 20 bucks. Then I point at the Chopard: also 20 bucks. They're all 20 bucks. So I point at the Rolex: 30 bucks. I ask why. Answer? "It's a Rolex."

[caesar]

I think alot of us know Gods opinion. Yeah sure. Bush thinks god talks to him too. Written by MAN not god.

I suppose you don't believe in the Darwin theory or that we are related to apes.

[I Miss Trudeau]

I think alot of us know Gods opinion.

You're wiser than me.

[I Miss Trudeau]

I argue that for a person to have the rights of a person they must have the right to be recognized as a person.

So would you say that for a union to have the same rights as marriage, it would have to be recognized as mariage?

Ie. - Does it really make sense to say "I don't mind giving homosexuals all of the benefits and responsibilities of marriage, as long as it isn't called marriage"?

[caesar]

Of course, it makes sense. A legal union affording the same rights, privleges and adverse problems of marriage could and should be recognized and I see no reason why it shoould not have a different "name" to recognize the differences.

[Digby]

I just heard that foolish primeminister of ours on the news claiming he was out to make all canadians equal .

My question is what Homosexual in Canada is not allowed to marry a woman if he so wanted ?

Is he not equal with me now?

What this prime minister really wants is to bring Canada into a Godless nation . Thats ok if God don't exist , but alot of Canadians still beleave he does!

[The Terrible Sweal]

Of course, it makes sense. A legal union affording the same rights, privleges and adverse problems of marriage could and should be recognized and I see no reason why it shoould not have a different "name" to recognize the differences.

I find that inconsistent. You say it should be the same in all but name, but the name should recognize the differences.

So... what differences do you mean? And why must they be recognized?

[Black Dog]

How about this (true story). Factory makes green garbage bags. Union Carbide hires the factory to make bags for sale under Union Carbide name. Factory's capacity is larger than Union Carbide order. So, factory makes and sells identical garbage bags under No Name Brand. (In fact, Union Carbide insists on this.)

Now the bags are identical in every respect except the name.

Whaddya think?

Generic brands tend to be cheaper than brand names.

Get what I'm saying?

The only possible reason for maintaing the distiction between hetero and gay unions is to maintain the stigma that gay relationships are somehow lesser. (Not ot mention practicle considerations such as portability of civil unions and the big one, their unconstitutionality.)

Of course, it makes sense. A legal union affording the same rights, privleges and adverse problems of marriage could and should be recognized and I see no reason why it shoould not have a different "name" to recognize the differences.

I have a question for ya: does the gender of the participants have any bearing on the benefits tehy recieve through marriage? Because if civil marriag eis simply a contract betwen two individual sto share assets and liabilities and so forth, then it doesn't really matter if the individuals entering into the contract both have penises or vaginas or any combination thereof.

My question is what Homosexual in Canada is not allowed to marry a woman if he so wanted ?

Is he not equal with me now?

Yes.

Flip the tables. Suppose gay marriage was the only option and straight people were barred from participating. How would you feel if somone trivialized the obvious inequality by saying "Well, you have the right to marry a man, what are you complaining about?"

Maybe you should try looking at things from another point of view for a change. Perhaps then you'd see how ridiculous and offensive such things are.

[Digby]

Our Country has been going along fine ,its been blessed ,its become one respected by most this world .

The men that wrote our constitution never dreamed of a day when Gays would be getting married in Canada ,and i think we all know it .

Most them men ill bet would of feared God to much to even mention such a thing .

Our country has grown because we have lead the world in God given morals , once we become a leader of the world in Godless morals , I Say Watch OUT .

I may be a fool on the internet but im 100% sure God Exist . If Paul Martin thinks this is what hes got to do , then so be it , but i beleave he will turn GOD ALMIGHTY against this land!

[Black Dog]

I may be a fool on the internet but im 100% sure God Exist . If Paul Martin thinks this is what hes got to do , then so be it , but i beleave he will turn GOD ALMIGHTY against this land!

You know, I got a few good laughs at some of your posts (and not with them; at them) but I don't think it's all that funny anymore. It represents a branch of thinking (and I don't know how common it is) that would turn society away fromt the democratic egalitarian ideals of democracy and towards a backward-looking theocratic ideaology.

You're entitled to your beliefs, of course. However, we are not living in a theocracy. Your beliefs carry no more weight than those of millions of other Candaians, be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sihk, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist: we are all equals under the law. You might want to remember that the principles which gay marriage is based on are the same ones that allow you to practice your own faith freely. You should be thankul you liv ein such a society.

It's funny too: I was watching some stuff on the Aushcwitz liberation and was struck by the outright inhumanity with which the snuffing of 10 milion souls could be conducted. When I read your posts and think about the cruelty of the gas chambers and ruthless efficiency of the incinerators, I have to wonder, what kind of malign thug of a God would allow such a thing to happen under his very eyes and would tolerate such hatred ,and yet deem the expression of love between two people to be a sin worthy of his wrath. No god worth worshipping, I can tell you that much.

[Digby]

Last i heard Paul Martin was going to force Liberals to vote his way (democracy or theocracy?)

I think most canadians don't want it , but really don't care .

The reason im so hard against it is i know whats in the book .

You don't care whats in the book ,you have thrown your book away .

What your scared of me for , the reason its no longer funny is you know the majority still beleave in the book .

And you are wondering if ill get through to them whats in the book.

This issue comes down too Throw the book away like you have or keep it like i Have .

Or i suppose you could twist the book like some have chosen.

Or play dumb .

[Black Dog]

Last i heard Paul Martin was going to force Liberals to vote his way (democracy or theocracy?)

Tehnically it's a free vote, but Martin knows they don't have a leg to stand on. basically the governmenthas two options: legalize SSM, or use the notwithstanding clause.

think most canadians don't want it , but really don't care .

Most polls show a majority of Canadians in favour of SSM. But yeah, the only ones who care are gays who want equal treatment and religious groups who will be unaffected by SSM.

The reason im so hard against it is i know whats in the book .

You don't care whats in the book ,you have thrown your book away .

But I don't care what you do with yours. See the difference?

What your scared of me for , the reason its no longer funny is you know the majority still beleave in the book .

And you are wondering if ill get through to them whats in the book.

No, I believe religious belief has been declining in Canada as well as the rest of the developed world with the exception of the wacky USA.

This issue comes down too Throw the book away like you have or keep it like i Have .

No. This issue comes down to whether or not some people have teh right to force their views upon others. That's what people oppossed to SSM on religious grounds are doing.

[Digby]

Black Dog I am not bothered by 2 gay people doing their thing . I don't like the way Gay people persue the next generation ,i do beleave they do recruit young minds . I would argue that some people are turned gay by working their minds .

I actually beleave Being Gay also may be influenced by the spirit world . Cases such as Catholic priest being gay most certainly come from them opening up to spirits that are not holy .

But i Say again Gay people don't bother me .

Your missing my Point : I beleave our goverments decision to allow Gay marriage Will bring Gods wrath upon Canada . I back my beleafs with Scripture , many scriptures if you want them.

You claim im forcing you to beleave my Beleafs . Are not you forceing me to beleave your beleafs ?

Are you not pushing that their is no God ,and there is nothing to fear from our goverments decision .

You are doing the same thing to me ,you acuse me

of doing to you. You want to force me into being part of a country that i beleave is committing an abomination before God Almighty. The scriptures are in the book and i chose to beleave them .

All through Canadas History of rising to a great nation people beleaved in these scriptures . We have no history of of Godlessness its something new , and we have no idea where it leads . Or at least you don't .

According to my bible it will end with 9/10s of canadians being dead before the return of Christ . In my opinion it is something to consider .

Why do we have to throw our sins in Gods face , why not keep them in our closest.

For a different Spin what will the muslims think of Canada now ? Same sex Marriage? What if these cooky americans you call them decide we are on our own against the rest of the world and islam decides .we are one hell of an evil country for allowing such an abomination . If the hindues are watching us ,How do you know ratical muslims are not?

So we could bring Islams fanatics against Canada just so our Gays can flaunt their sins? How do you know the next 9 :11 won't be a canadian one . Im sure old Osamah don't think Canadas leaders are working for God any more .

Probly the only thing stopping the muslims from coming here now is cooky america as you call it .

You not beleaveing in God , is Not going to stop fanatical Muslims from haveing an opinion on Canadas new laws .

Why bring that on Us?

Then bash America ,most likely the only thing stopping Islam from looking towards Canada and the way she likes to promote sin.

[Guest eureka]

Why don't you stop wearing out the book jacket? The Book is a wonderful thing but it is a mass of contradictions and is of no help here. Only a small minority of Christians accept the Book as more than a useful guide.

Faith I can understand and most of us have that in some way. This belief in whatever sayings from the Bible suit the fancy of the moment is pitifull.

I oppose SSM for reasons that I have given and they have nothing to do with any book or religion.

I also could be wrong though I don't thonk so. The liberal in me would want to support SSM but the critical thinker has seen nothing to convince him that marriage is the right course.

[August1991]

Also the bible hits right on when predicting the modern day world . It even predicts this push of homosexualality that we seem to be argueing .

So Digby, you believe the quotes above are God's opinions because the Bible makes accurate predictions about the modern world?

Digby, you didn't answer my question so I repeat the comments here.

I understand that computers and the Internet are not always easy. And I understand (trust me) how difficult they can be. (My advice is to to take your time but don't give up.)

IMV (In My View), you too have the right to say what you think.

[Digby]

I do not beleave the bible is the book of contradictions that some like to claim . Most of the contradictions can be smoothened out from more study . I have been in Islamic chat groups who claimed the bible was full of condratictions and could not be trusted ,just little old me was able to prove the contradictions they was claiming where not contradictions at all but deliberate twist and also lack of knowledge on their part.

Im not a bible Schoolar ,im a lay member that don't even go to church much and i think i could shock you with how uncondraticting the bible is if taken in the right direction . There is men on the earth that i beleave can show you the bible has no contradictions if more study is applied . I can list some web sites that i trust as real men of God and in whom i beleave could make you impressed with that old book . The problem with this world is it is full of false prophets , The end of this age comes with a scattering of Gods real church so that it can almost not be found . And with an explosion of false prophets . People throw away their bibles because of these false ministers of God walking amonst us .

Ill List a few web Sites in which i think real men of God dwell . But even then i advise you to keep your Bibles open.

http://www.cemnetwork.com

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org

http://www.garnertedarmstrong.org

http:www.gnmagazine.org

On the whole world wide web (in my Opinion) you can do no better at finding real men of God then these 4 sites.

I would suspect these web sites could prove to you no condratictions in the book. And most of thrown it away for nothing accept a mass explossion of false prophets.

Augest yes i beleave this .

Why don't you go to the last site i listed and get a booklet called europe and america in prophecy . Just have a look on how much that old book has been predicting. How much did it hit right smack on with .

You will find it under booklets .

[Guest eureka]

Read Bertrand Russell, "Why I am not a Christian" to find a few: just for those where Jesus advocated violence unlike the commonly held view of Christ.

The Bible is a compendium of the works of many different writers: it comprises many different philosophies and "lay" interpretations of belief in God and of Christ.

Unlike the Koran, it is not a cohesive philosophy.

[Digby]

The koran was wrote in one place at one time by one bunch of men , very easy to get a smooth corrupted book in this way .

The problem with the koran is it contradicts every writing ever produced by any man of God up to that point .

No muslim ceramonies or traditions was ever recorded on this earth before this group of men conspired to write this book .

The Koran even leaves out what man was to leave alone so it is very incomplete . It has never impressed me in any way with prophecy .

According to the book of rev <which readers of the Koran have no proof is not a revalation of Jesus Christ . The writers of the Koran will lose their eternal life . As they very much take away the book of rev ,and also ad to it . Which the book of rev warns has severe penaltys .

Taking away actually leads to your name beeing blotted out of the book of life . No worse sentence can be handed out to any man liveing or that has lived on this earth . So id be carefull with my koran handling at least till i Proved Revalation was not a revalation of Jesus Christ delivered to him by God almighty . No proof of revalation being a fake is ever offered by any Muslim just claims that it is . And rev has a way better track record of showing the future (satans weakness) then any koran.

The Jesus Christ portrayed by most modern Christians is indeed a fake . I don't need your book to tell me that ,my bible tells me that . Jesus was the God of the old testament ,and yes he did order captital punishment at times . And acording to your new testament he will in the future do the same .

We can not make up our own Jesus if we don't like what we see in Scripture !

My advise is maybe look harder at the one in Scripture and then see if you can live with what you see .

First of all he Told Us Point Blank ; THINK NOT THAT I CAME TO BRING PEACE. most don't beleave his words and so conclude he was a failure at what he is doing.

Jesus came to this earth for 3 reasons :

To Qualify as this earths future King

To experience the flesh so he could rightously Judge

to replace the Passover Lamb.

He did not come to Bring Peace ,or to stop this worlds evils. He could of Yes .

What you need to know is all the things you expected of him , like bringing world peace , and fixing the worlds evils is a future event that can be expected of him.

The only way to ever have peace on this earth is to lock up evil spirits ,something Christ is capable of doing . But will not do untill the time he picks , That time being when he shows man they can not govern ,they can only bring the distruction of all flesh.

The bible is full of peace on earth scriptures , but they are all future events : Micah 4 nation shall never rise against nation any more , neither will they learn war any more . won't that be nice? Every man will have his own fig tree . No corporate greed?

Isaiah 11 tells us that even animals will stop killing some day .

The problem with you people that judge God to be unfair is Lack of Knowledge of what he really has Planned for this old world .

[Guest eureka]

I won't dispute these things with you, Digby. Far be it from me to attempt to destroy anyone's faith or belief.

We all need something to hold on to in this miserable world.

[Digby]

Look towards the future Eureka its the only place you will find something worth holding on too.

This world is not out of place its going Exactly like planned . we have to see this stuff , as eternity is such a long time and at some point somebody would of told you God don't know what he is doing . So you had to see this old evil world . You had to see what evil spirits on the lose can do so you will beleave in his wisdom.

Its going to get worse before it gets better but it will get better . Someday this world will have peace.

And the book of life will be open in the great white throne judgement so don't worry about the decieved .

Its the undecieved that judgement begins with.

[caesar]

Who were the two ninnies that voted yes to this poll. What white male thinks he is better than white women or people from other races. Shows your insecurity. Real men don't need to have superficial designations to make them feel adequate.