Federal Liberals, Justin Trudeau, Brand Names & Khadr Money Payoff

August1991 · July 11, 2017

I'm really interested/curious to know what the political damage, specifically to Justin Trudeau (not the federal Liberal brand name) will be for this Khadr money/payoff.

First, the federal Liberal brand name was tarnished with Paul Martin. Then, demolished with Dion and Ignatieff. (I met and spoke with both Dion and Ignatieff; under the circumstances, both smart guys.)

Second, to the pleasure of all federal Liberals across Canada, Justin made federal Liberals electable: the Vogue guy. Under Justin, Federal Liberals were doable again.

Third, but now with this payoff, I suspect that Justin Trudeau is toxic.

Am I wrong?

=====

I'm abroad now, outside of Canada, and what bothers me is that Canada's federal Liberal Party has largely been a civilising force in Canada.

Justin Trudeau can do stupid things; but we together can get along. The federal Liberal Party must return to, not sunny ways, but pragmatic politics.

As the father famously said: "No more philosopher king."

Edited July 11, 2017 by August1991

Omni · July 11, 2017

10 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Am I wrong?

Politically, who knows, we shall see. But your use of the term "payoff" undermines the credibility of you argument. Trudeau didn't create the circumstances that led to an ongoing court case, but settling it was probably a smart thing to do, and you try to make it sound like some sort of back room hi jinxs.

August1991 · July 11, 2017

Abroad, Justin Trudeau is still cool. In Canada, I suspect that he's toxic - unless he reverses.

Dunno.

======

In Canada, the federal Liberal Party was once an institution of unity.

Hal 9000 · July 11, 2017

Well, Trudeau has been losing his shine for a while now. It's becoming a running joke, with the selfies and shirtless thing (sometimes at the same time). He looks rather amateur and seems bent on playing "Identity politics". Trudeau is to Canada, what Obama was to the USA. With the Khadr deal - and really, nothing else to show for his time in office, he may be pushing people to the right. Sophie is nauseating.

I'm reminded of how HNIC hired George Strombonoppoulis because he was the cool guy on the scene - he lasted 2 years, before people wised up.

capricorn · July 12, 2017

If Justin's popularity takes a hit, certainly the Liberal Party will be negatively affected as a result. The Khadr affair is seen negatively by the majority of Canadians. IMO, the problems plaguing the Missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls Inquiry will do more harm to Justin Trudeau and the Liberals. You cannot so easily pay off a large group of grieving and irate parents and relatives of Native women who have been murdered or have disappeared. The brass running the inquiry have not even presented an interim report yet and is asking for more money and resources. Justin and co. are mistaken if they think it will be a quiet summer of kissing babies, selfies and BBQs.

Quote

In the space of 10 days, the government’s decision to apologize to and compensate Omar Khadr has sparked fierce blowback that shows no signs of abating.

And his Indigenous Affairs Minister, Carolyn Bennett, was forced to stand before the microphones in Ottawa Tuesday, offering a rather shaky vote of confidence in the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls inquiry, following its most recent resignation.

On the Khadr file, perfectly sound Liberal arguments regarding the Charter of Rights, Supreme Court judgments, mistreatment of a child soldier, a fruitless court pursuit and a savings of tax dollars has crashed on the rocks of a Canadian public that sees only a terrorist and $10.5 million.

The MMIWG inquiry was supposed to be the lowest of hanging fruit for a government, a key stepping stone on the way to promised Indigenous reconciliation. But it is proving to be toxic fruit, riven with competing views and philosophies and communications breakdowns.

Tuesday, Marilyn Poitras became the fifth staffer to step down; the first commissioner.

Which of these two early summer messes will prove more costly to the Trudeau government?

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/07/11/ten-days-two-crises-in-trudeaus-mid-term-summer-tim-harper.html

SpankyMcFarland · July 12, 2017

The Khadr is a big deal to people who vote Tory anyway who are over-represented on sites like this. People may be mildly offended in the middle right now but they'll be looking at wallet issues come Election Day.

capricorn · July 12, 2017

Just now, SpankyMcFarland said:

they'll be looking at wallet issues come Election Day.

What. You think $10.5M of taxpayer money is not a wallet issue?

SpankyMcFarland · July 12, 2017

2 minutes ago, capricorn said:

What. You think $10.5M of taxpayer money is not a wallet issue?

How much is that each? 30 cents? Not compared to billions of dollars in the economy.

SpankyMcFarland · July 12, 2017

9 minutes ago, capricorn said:

If Justin's popularity takes a hit, certainly the Liberal Party will be negatively affected as a result. The Khadr affair is seen negatively by the majority of Canadians. IMO, the problems plaguing the Missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls Inquiry will do more harm to Justin Trudeau and the Liberals. You cannot so easily pay off a large group of grieving and irate parents and relatives of Native women who have been murdered or have disappeared. The brass running the inquiry have not even presented an interim report yet and is asking for more money and resources. Justin and co. are mistaken if they think it will be a quiet summer of kissing babies, selfies and BBQs.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/07/11/ten-days-two-crises-in-trudeaus-mid-term-summer-tim-harper.html

It would take some brass neck on the Tory's part to criticize an Inquiry they would never have held.

August1991 · July 12, 2017

7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The Khadr is a big deal to people who vote Tory anyway who are over-represented on sites like this. People may be mildly offended in the middle right now but they'll be looking at wallet issues come Election Day.

On sites like this?

SpankyMcFarland, this is a big deal.

capricorn · July 12, 2017

10 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

It would take some brass neck on the Tory's part to criticize an Inquiry they would never have held.

The Conservatives don't have to criticize anything. Just let the Liberals hang themselves if they mishandle this inquiry.

capricorn · July 12, 2017

22 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The Khadr is a big deal to people who vote Tory anyway who are over-represented on sites like this.

Quote

More than 70 per cent of Canadians polled disagree with the government's decision to settle a lawsuit with Omar Khadr for a reported $10.5 million and an apology, according to the results of a new survey.

Asked which of two statements most reflected their opinion, 71 per cent of those polled by the Angus Reid Institute said the government should have fought the case and left it to the courts to decide whether Khadr was wrongfully imprisoned.

Only 29 per cent of those polled said the compensation and apology were the right decision.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/majority-of-canadians-disagree-with-khadr-deal-poll-1.3497886

Looks to me like the majority of Canadians disagree with the monetary compensation.

SpankyMcFarland · July 12, 2017

3 minutes ago, capricorn said:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/majority-of-canadians-disagree-with-khadr-deal-poll-1.3497886

Looks to me like the majority of Canadians disagree with the monetary compensation.

I don't disagree there. All I'm saying is that centrist voters will not be obsessed about it for years. Ultimately, JT did not cause this problem. Previous Lib and Tory admins did.

SpankyMcFarland · July 12, 2017

14 minutes ago, capricorn said:

The Conservatives don't have to criticize anything. Just let the Liberals hang themselves if they mishandle this inquiry.

By its nature, this Inquiry will be controversial and imperfect. Any Inquiry will be mishandled in the eyes of many here.

Edited July 12, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

Omni · July 12, 2017

9 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Looks to me like the majority of Canadians disagree with the monetary compensation.

Read down the page and you find that 74% od rhose polled agree Khadr was a child soldier. The SC has long ago determined that, and that he was illegally imprisoned. So all your argument is about is the dollar value of the settlement. No one can say for sure whether the out of court settlement arrived at is more, or less than what would have been arrived at if the case went to trial. But anyone who knows anything about law would understand the legal costs would have soared.

Hal 9000 · July 12, 2017

^^ I hardly think this was simply Justin trying to save some money. People don't care about the minutia, they care that Trudeau bent of willingly and took the side of the Terrorist Khadr - as other Liberals have done. You can talk about the law and The SC all day long - and you do, but that doesn't make it easier on the people (70%+) who feel Trudeau caved like a bitch.

Omni · July 12, 2017

3 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Trudeau caved like a bitch

I don't think he caved, I think he was well advised to cut the losses and settle.

Hal 9000 · July 12, 2017

27 minutes ago, Omni said:

I don't think he caved, I think he was well advised to cut the losses and settle.

Well, that's great for you, however 7 out of 10 people feel the same as me. And that will matter come election time.

Omni · July 12, 2017

Just now, Hal 9000 said:

Well, that's great for you, however 7 out of 10 people feel the same as me. And that will matter come election time.

It will be water under the bridge come election time.

Hal 9000 · July 12, 2017

3 minutes ago, Omni said:

It will be water under the bridge come election time.

No chance!

Omni · July 12, 2017

2 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

No chance!

The vast majority agree he was a child and was wrongly interred and that's what really matters, not the dollar value of his compensation

Hal 9000 · July 12, 2017

I won't let you hijack the thread, so If you want to talk Khadr, copy your post and Ill respond over there.

Anyway, the missing women thing has potential to hurt him. It's obvious that any M and M women inquiry will lead right back to the reserve, so that will be a minefield. Nafta and softwood are showing that Trudeau is a do nothing. In fact, JT offered to re-write it for Trump. We don't know how the oil industry is going to turn out, my guess is he takes a waiver and hangs the provinces out to dry. He doesn't care about the disasters in the west.

When all is said and done, he may get weed legalized and to that we don't know the outcome. However, that was his only real issue for most people, so if he does it, there is not much reason to keep him around. Beyond that, sure rainbow sidewalks, money for terror....and?

So, he'd better hope that legalizing weed is so wildly successful that we can drastically improve our medical system and schools - otherwise, he's been nothing but a figurehead.

Omni · July 12, 2017

12 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

I won't let you hijack the thread, so If you want to talk Khadr, copy your post and Ill respond over there.

Anyway, the missing women thing has potential to hurt him. It's obvious that any M and M women inquiry will lead right back to the reserve, so that will be a minefield. Nafta and softwood are showing that Trudeau is a do nothing. In fact, JT offered to re-write it for Trump. We don't know how the oil industry is going to turn out, my guess is he takes a waiver and hangs the provinces out to dry. He doesn't care about the disasters in the west.

When all is said and done, he may get weed legalized and to that we don't know the outcome. However, that was his only real issue for most people, so if he does it, there is not much reason to keep him around. Beyond that, sure rainbow sidewalks, money for terror....and?

So, he'd better hope that legalizing weed is so wildly successful that we can drastically improve our medical system and schools - otherwise, he's been nothing but a figurehead.

Trudeau has signed off on two pipelines if those are what turn you on, he has agreed to discuss nafta, softwood lumber is only going to cost Americans building houses more money because they need the wood, and he settled a long standing law suit that could have cost us more than double what it did. Now, can you pass me that doobie.

Hal 9000 · July 12, 2017

3 minutes ago, Omni said:

Trudeau has signed off on two pipelines if those are what turn you on, he has agreed to discuss nafta, softwood lumber is only going to cost Americans building houses more money because they need the wood, and he settled a long standing law suit that could have cost us more than double what it did. Now, can you pass me that doobie.

We'll see about the pipelines. As for Nafta, what is there to discuss if not making the deal better for USA. And sorry, softwood lumber tariffs wont fall on the US side, that'll be on us.

Omni · July 12, 2017

1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

We'll see about the pipelines. As for Nafta, what is there to discuss if not making the deal better for USA. And sorry, softwood lumber tariffs wont fall on the US side, that'll be on us.

You got things a bit mixed up: the paperwork is signed on the pipelines, we'll see what comes out of the nafta discussions, and the lumber will just end up being more costly for US purchasers.