Why Trump was Elected

[Michael Hardner]

18 hours ago, Topaz said:

Sad for the American people who aren't going to have health care by the end of the year. 

What ?  Is that right ?

[Michael Hardner]

17 hours ago, taxme said:

Why don't they all just drop the waste of time bull crap, and dump the whole Obamacare thing, and just say to the American people go visit your doctor for whatever reason or go have your surgery, and then send the government the bill. Voila, all is then clear and transparent. Sounds easy enough to me. But I guess that is just me. I like to make things nice and easy and simple in my life. Works for me. 

They tried to cut back Obamacare, to save money - that is, to create a new compromise.  The Republican party has a wider ideological spectrum, I think, and so were not able to close the deal.  There just isn't a point of agreement there where people are covered and the costs are low enough.

It sounds simple but if you can't get people to agree then it's not simple and there is no deal to be made.

Also, I looked it up but nowhere does it say Obamacare ends anytime soon.  Let me know if you have other information.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

All just liberal/democrat lies and dreams.

Trump is now saying he never said he would repeat and replace in 64 days, which I guess is true, but ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/24/its-true-trump-didnt-pledge-obamacare-repeal-in-64-days-he-pledged-it-in-one/?utm_term=.b2d605e40963

Quote

Rally in Florida, October 2016: “Together we’re going to deliver real change that once again puts Americans first. That begins with immediately repealing and replacing the disaster known as Obamacare. My first day in office, I am going to ask Congress to put a bill on my desk getting rid of this disastrous law and replacing it with reforms that expand choice, freedom, affordability.”

He also said: “It’s going to be so easy.”

The incompetence and strategic nullity of Paul Ryan is also evidence now, as the party that voted against Obamacare 60 (?) times in opposition wasn't able to do it once when controlling the house, senate and presidency.

The US could really use a leader like Trump - who has the energy and vision to rebuild systems from the ground up and especially to simplify things.  Win, win, win for American taxpayers, patients, and providers is possible.  But a leader with the ability to do that would look more like a Romney or Gore than a Trump.

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Trump is now saying he never said he would repeat and replace in 64 days, which I guess is true, but ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/24/its-true-trump-didnt-pledge-obamacare-repeal-in-64-days-he-pledged-it-in-one/?utm_term=.b2d605e40963

The incompetence and strategic nullity of Paul Ryan is also evidence now, as the party that voted against Obamacare 60 (?) times in opposition wasn't able to do it once when controlling the house, senate and presidency.

The US could really use a leader like Trump - who has the energy and vision to rebuild systems from the ground up and especially to simplify things.  Win, win, win for American taxpayers, patients, and providers is possible.  But a leader with the ability to do that would look more like a Romney or Gore than a Trump.

From what I understand they didn't have enough support from the more conservative element in the party, because the proposed changes were not drastic enough.
I don't know what they were holding out for.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't know what they were holding out for.

These are hard-right Republicans who want a complete repeal.  They promise their supporters that they will not compromise, and in that they are to be commended for being responsible to their constituents.  

But to satisfy more of them, you will unsatisfy - and lose support of - moderate Republicans.  

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

These are hard-right Republicans who want a complete repeal.  They promise their supporters that they will not compromise, and in that they are to be commended for being responsible to their constituents.  

But to satisfy more of them, you will unsatisfy - and lose support of - moderate Republicans.  

Doesn't seem all that responsible then. Much of the problems that lead to the rise of extremism is due to a complete refusal to compromise.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Doesn't seem all that responsible then. Much of the problems that lead to the rise of extremism is due to a complete refusal to compromise.

However, they see the situation with the budget, deficits and so on as extremism also.  They're refusing to give in, in their minds.  As much as I support third-way compromises, there is no doubt that there is a sincere core of voters who strongly disagree with the overspending and their representatives are actually very brave in resisting the carrots and sticks before them.

[H10]

8 hours ago, taxme said:

Geez, I guess then that it also worked out alright for Obama and Hillary too, eh? Get over it. There is nothing anyone can find on Trump that can bring him down because there is nothing on Trump. All just liberal/democrat lies and dreams. But keep hoping but don't try holding your breath for too long. You could become deceased if you do. 

It needs to be investigated.

[segnosaur]

On 3/25/2017 at 11:30 AM, OftenWrong said:

Doesn't seem all that responsible then. Much of the problems that lead to the rise of extremism is due to a complete refusal to compromise.

- “I think the Republican Party is captive to political movements that are very ideological, that are very narrow... I’ve never seen so much intolerance as I see today in American politics.” - Chuck Hagel (Republican)

- “The Republican Party is becoming less and less like a traditional political party in a representative democracy and becoming more like an apocalyptic cult, or one of the intensely ideological authoritarian parties of 20th century Europe” -  Mike Lofgren (Republican)

So even some republicans recognize the problem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html?utm_term=.682786c43763

- “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”  - Mitch McConnell (Republican)

- “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”  - John Boehner (Republican), commenting on Obama's policies

http://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

The republican party has been drifting into extremism for years.They have their core supporters, and are holding on to them tight. So they loose the support of Moderates, meaning they have to hold on to their core supporters even tighter with even more extremism. Not only is that a bad way to run a country, it may also be ultimately defeating, since driving away moderates might mean many electoral losses in the future if and when demographic shifts catch up with them.

[segnosaur]

On 3/24/2017 at 8:00 PM, Cum Laude said:

As usual, you underestimate the governing abilities of Mr. Trump,

Errr... not really. Most of what Trump has done is sign a bunch of executive orders, some of which 1) got blocked by the courts (I guess Trump didn't realize that he actually has to pay attention to the consitution), or 2) were pretty vacuous, or 3) trump had no idea what was in them. His first major attempt at "governing" (the health care bill) ended in failure, and his tax reform plans may end up the same way.

...and more importantly, the abilities of a powerful intellectual center, which works for him.

Which intellectual center is that? Kelly Anne "My microwave is spying on me" Conway? Betty Ann "We need to arm students in case of bear attacks" Devos? Or how about Jeff "Ooops I forgot to tell you I talked to the Russians" Sessions?

The appearance of quotes around the word “wiretapping” in the Trump’s tweet shows that this tweet was not just thought through to the last detail, but also that the whole unit of that intellectual center have worked on it, the center which I hope Hillary is not capable to eavesdrop on....The task of this tweet was to neutralize the attempts of the Clintonoids to create a commission of the Congress or appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the relations between Trump’s election campaign and Russian intelligence, so there is just as much basis for setting up such a commission as there are grounds for setting up a special commission to investigate the new Watergate.

Here's a suggestion... instead of trying to justify how smart he is by the clever use of quotes in his tweets in order to distract people from Trump's Russian ties... maybe he shouldn't have had such ties in the same place. I doubt that Trump's claims of wiretapping are doing to distract people from the Russian issues, and instead will just remind people just how full of BS Trump actually is.

If you shoot yourself in the foot to distract yourself from a gaping head wound, you have not fixed the head wound, and now you're bleeding from 2 different places.

 

[GostHacked]

On 3/23/2017 at 2:55 AM, hernanday said:

Zero understanding of Trump's fantasy conspiracy theories.  Where was the deep state that bush and cheney put in?

They are all part of that same Deep State.