Womens only swimming day at public pool.

turningrite · July 17, 2018

6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

1.) Yes it is really. It is ALWAYS a woman's choice.

2.) If you say forcing a woman against her choice is not bad then you are as bad as the ayatollah in opposite direction.

1.) LOL. Dream on....

2.) I don't think you understand the concept of prevention of harm. We often require people to do some things or not do some things because the law intends to protect people from harm. If a single person might be harmed by being forced into adherence to a dogmatic religious ideology, surely banning any practice that would appear to encourage or sustain such an outcome is justifiable in a free and democratic society. This in fact of the basis of the continental European idea of secularism. In our society, freedoms of speech and expression are not absolute. Nor should freedom of religion be.

Goddess · July 17, 2018

40 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes of course hijab is a symbol of repression of women.

Stop there. Now think about that from the viewpoint of women.

As a woman the last thing I want to see parading around the streets as normal and legitimate, is the symbol of repression of women. Western society has made great strides in equality of the sexes, but it is still fragile. Women know this. It is frightening to see this go on in Western countries, a reminder of how quickly and easily everything we have fought for can be taken away.

How would you feel if there was a religious group - a growing religious group - that felt men should never leave the house without a collar around their neck and being led on a leash by a woman? I'm not even talking about whether the man in question "says" it's his choice, or not.

How would it make you feel if men had fought long and hard for many years to be let off their leashes and now you suddenly see more and more men on leashes, being yanked around by women? Would it make you feel safe? Comfortable?

What if other countries have a LAW that says all men must be on leashes, led by women? And men were being killed and beaten on the daily for disobedience?

Would you want to see that brought to your country?

Edited July 17, 2018 by Goddess

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

10 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Stop there. Now think about that from the viewpoint of women.

As a woman the last thing I want to see parading around the streets as normal and legitimate, is the symbol of repression of women. Western society has made great strides in equality of the sexes, but it is still fragile. Women know this. It is frightening to see this go on in Western countries, a reminder of how quickly and easily everything we have fought for can be taken away.

How would you feel if there was a religious group - a growing religious group - that felt men should never leave the house without a collar around their neck and being led on a leash by a woman? I'm not even talking about whether the man in question "says" it's his choice, or not.

How would it make you feel if men had fought long and hard for many years to be let off their leashes and now you suddenly see more and more men on leashes, being yanked around by women? Would it make you feel safe? Comfortable?

No you stop there. I said hijab is a symbol of repression of women because in some countries the repressive regimes imposes those who do not wish to wear it then to wear it but it is not a symbol of repression if a woman chooses to wear it out of her personal beliefs.

If there is a religious group requiring men to wear a collar and then a man who strongly believe in his religion wear the collar out of his own choice I have no problem with that.

You and other gentleman must learn to RESPECT THE CHOICE. YOU are NOT superior to anyone to decide for others what is good or bad for them WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE??

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

34 minutes ago, turningrite said:

1.) LOL. Dream on....

2.) I don't think you understand the concept of prevention of harm. We often require people to do some things or not do some things because the law intends to protect people from harm. If a single person might be harmed by being forced into adherence to a dogmatic religious ideology, surely banning any practice that would appear to encourage or sustain such an outcome is justifiable in a free and democratic society. This in fact of the basis of the continental European idea of secularism. In our society, freedoms of speech and expression are not absolute. Nor should freedom of religion be.

I have responded in the other post. RESPECT THE CHOICE people make for themselves. YOU are NOT superior to anyone to decide for others what is good or bad for them WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE??

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

Goddess · July 17, 2018

2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE??

Who do they think THEY are that their repressive and oppressive ideologies should have a place in Western society?

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Who do they think THEY are that their repressive and oppressive ideologies should have a place in Western society?

Their ideologies become repressive ONLY if they try to impose them on others but it is NOT repressive if they choose them for themselves.

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

Goddess · July 17, 2018

4 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

RESPECT THE CHOICE.

I do not have to RESPECT such a choice.

taxme · July 17, 2018

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

You only need to read a few threads on any ex-Muslim forum to see how much of a choice it is.

Thread after thread after thread of women and girls who are forced to wear it. And some threads from women who DO actually have the choice but can't figure out how to get out of the mental prison that tells them they are whores the second they walk outside without it.

Which has always begged the question for me - If it's really a choice, then why can't they choose NOT to wear it?

I thank god that I can go to a beach anywhere in Canada and see the women in bikinis. I cannot imagine going to a beach and seeing all the women covered up from head to toe in 90 degree heat. Those women at the end of the day and returning home must really have a smelly sweaty bad odor coming from them. But maybe than those slave owner Islamic men of their's like a smelly women. Hey, you never know.

Why do those Muslim women now living in Canada do not rebel? Is it that bad that if they do they will get beaten badly or beheaded by their Islamic slave masters? What really surprises me is to see a Canadian women marrying a Muslim and forcing herself to cover up from head to toe and become a slave to one of those slave Islamic masters. Those women have to be really stunned and stupid. There is no choice for Muslim women. Wear your cover ups and shut up.

Goddess · July 17, 2018

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

but it is NOT repressive if they choose them for themselves.

Disagree.

There is a myriad of evidence from psychologists and sociaologists that agree it is repressive/oppressive/unhealthy whether it's their "choice" to be oppressed or not.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

Just now, Goddess said:

I do not have to RESPECT such a choice.

You have no respect for people's choice then you have no respect for people. Only what you say is right and everyone else must respect YOUR choice or else. Reminds me of other dictators running a middle eastern country. You are all the same in opposite directions. Your way or highway or jail.

Goddess · July 17, 2018

4 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You have no respect for people's choice then you have no respect for people.

Respecting people's choices and respecting people are 2 different things.

I do not respect the choices of people who choose to use their freedom to oppress others. I'm very surprised that you do.

Well, not really I guess. I sort of think if it was men in dog collars being led around by women on leashes, you would not be so complacent and supportive about it.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Goddess

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

12 minutes ago, taxme said:

Why do those Muslim women now living in Canada do not rebel? Is it that bad that if they do they will get beaten badly or beheaded by their Islamic slave masters? What really surprises me is to see a Canadian women marrying a Muslim and forcing herself to cover up from head to toe and become a slave to one of those slave Islamic masters. Those women have to be really stunned and stupid. There is no choice for Muslim women. Wear your cover ups and shut up.

Listen you are preaching to someone who has fought for women's rights all his life especially the rights to wear what they wish. But it goes BOTH WAYS. If I fight for women in Iran to wear make ups and mini skirts as they used to do when a socially democratic government was in power then I also have to fight for women's rights in say Saudi Arabia if that woman chooses to wear the hijab when she comes to Canada as painful as it may be.

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I do not respect the choices of people who choose to use their freedom to oppress others. I'm very surprised that you do.

Listen you discredit yourself in public when you make statements like this. In fact I say you disgrace yourself. People read my posts too and I have clearly said as long as they do not impose their way of living on others and it is a personal choice I have no issues since they have the right to choose the way they wish to live for themselves but when you lie and accuse me of respecting the people who use their freedom to oppress OTHERS (something that I have opposed post after post) then you badly discredit yourself. It shows also weakness on your part to put false words in my mouth. Really!!!!!!!!

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Well, not really I guess. I sort of think if it was men in dog collars being led around by women on leashes, you would not be so complacent and supportive about it.

In fact I am supportive as I hear some men even pay to do exactly that. they call it a fetish or something I don't know much about but since it is HIS choice I have no issuess with that as who am I to judge other people?

Goddess · July 17, 2018

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Listen you discredit yourself in public when you make statements like this. In fact I say you disgrace yourself. People read my posts too and I have clearly said as long as they do not impose their way of living on others and it is a personal choice I have no issues since they have the right to choose the way they wish to live for themselves but when you lie and accuse me of respecting the people who use their freedom to oppress OTHERS (something that I have opposed post after post) then you badly discredit yourself. It shows also weakness to put false words in my mouth. Really!!!!!!!!

You are very badly mistaken if you think every woman in Canada in a hijab has made that "choice". THAT is what I have an issue with.

Seriously, read any ex-Muslim forum and you will threads and threads and threads of women in Canada and the US who are forced to wear it, but publicly have to say it's their "choice" to avoid repercussions from the religion, their community, their families.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

Just now, Goddess said:

You are very badly mistaken if you think every woman in Canada in a hijab has made that "choice". THAT is what I have an issue with.

Seriously, read any ex-Muslim forum and you will threads and threads and threads of women in Canada and the US who are forced to wear it, but publicly have to say it's their "choice" to avoid repercussions from the religion, their community, their families.

I never said that and that was not the subject we were debating. We were debating the subject that IF IT IS A WOMAN'S CHOICE then I support her choice.

And you accused me of supporting people who use their freedom to oppress others. This was a lie and you know it. The least you could do was to retract and apologize instead of trying to change the subject.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

24 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I do not respect the choices of people who choose to use their freedom to oppress others. I'm very surprised that you do.

to see People who choose to use their freedom to oppress others just look into mirror because that people is YOU. When you force a woman who for whatever reason of hers CHOOSES to wear a hijab and you force her not to exercise their choice because you decide for her what not to wear then you use your freedom to oppress her (others)

taxme · July 17, 2018

12 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Listen you are preaching to someone who has fought for women's rights all his life especially the rights to wear what they wish. But it goes BOTH WAYS. If I fight for women in Iran to wear make ups and mini skirts as they used to do when a socially democratic government was in power then I also have to fight for women's rights in say Saudi Arabia if that woman chooses to wear the hijab when she comes to Canada as painful as it may be.

I am very offended when I see a Muslim woman walking around in a mall or on the streets of Canada all covered up from head to toe. This is not Saudi Arabia, this is Canada. Those Muslim women must be the most unhealthiest women on earth as they are always covered up from getting some sun on their bodies. I just cannot believe that these Muslim women would immigrate to Canada and still stay all covered up. They don't have to now. Screw their slave master men they are living in Canada now and they need to leave their past behind. Muslim women should have no fear of being beaten. We have laws against that. It is this 10th century archaic religion that needs to modernize and update itself. They left the tenth century when they came to Canada and they are now living in the 21st century and it is about time for them to get with the program.

Goddess · July 17, 2018

11 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I never said that and that was not the subject we were debating. We were debating the subject that IF IT IS A WOMAN'S CHOICE then I support her choice.

And you accused me of supporting people who use their freedom to oppress others. This was a lie and you know it. The least you could do was to retract and apologize instead of trying to change the subject.

Then don't support people who use their freedom to oppress others. It is very clear that it is NOT a choice for many.

I do not support anyone's "choice" to promote oppressive religious ideologies. I do not respect the "choice" to promote such damaging ideologies in a free society that has already rid itself of most oppression of women.

I don't want to backwards. And I do not have to respect the "choice" of those who do want to go back to oprressing women.

taxme · July 17, 2018

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

to see People who choose to use their freedom to oppress others just look into mirror because that people is YOU. When you force a woman who for whatever reason of hers CHOOSES to wear a hijab and you force her not to exercise their choice because you decide for her what not to wear then you use your freedom to oppress her (others)

No one is going to force these Muslim women to do anything that they do not want to do. Go ahead, sweat in 90 degree heat in your halloween costume, see if I care. But what we are saying to them here is that they are now living in Canada and they can dress as they please now. We are trying to help them and bring them into the 21st century. And if your Islamic slave owner says you cannot then tell him to go take a flight on the next carpet back to the country from where he came from. Canada so far is still a country of and for freedom and that those Muslim women should take advantage of it. I am sure many would like too. So my suggestion to them is go ahead make your day. The offended people like me are behind you.

Goddess · July 17, 2018

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

to see People who choose to use their freedom to oppress others just look into mirror because that people is YOU. When you force a woman who for whatever reason of hers CHOOSES to wear a hijab and you force her not to exercise their choice because you decide for her what not to wear then you use your freedom to oppress her (others)

How am I forcing her to not exercise her choice?

By expressing my opinion that forced hijab is more common than we like to admit and that I agree with all the studies that show how oppressive it is to women and to society?

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

35 minutes ago, taxme said:

I am very offended when I see a Muslim woman walking around in a mall or on the streets of Canada all covered up from head to toe. This is not Saudi Arabia, this is Canada. Those Muslim women must be the most unhealthiest women on earth as they are always covered up from getting some sun on their bodies. I just cannot believe that these Muslim women would immigrate to Canada and still stay all covered up. They don't have to now. Screw their slave master men they are living in Canada now and they need to leave their past behind. Muslim women should have no fear of being beaten. We have laws against that. It is this 10th century archaic religion that needs to modernize and update itself. They left the tenth century when they came to Canada and they are now living in the 21st century and it is about time for them to get with the program.

It may be true in SOME cases that they do it out of fear (though not widespread in Canada) but at the same time you ignore the fact that many of them CHOOSE to wear hijab out of their own beliefs. I don't agree with those beliefs that is why I do not wish any family member or friend of mine wear it but if she does and chooses to do so then this is not my business because it is HER BODY AND HER CHOICE.

If you are offended by seeing covered up women then close your eyes or don't look at them. I say the same thing to those male apes who try to force hijab on women. If woman's hair is provocative then he is a sick ape and HE MUST CLOSE HIS SICK EYES NOT FORCE THE VICTIM TO COVER UP HER BODY.

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

33 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Then don't support people who use their freedom to oppress others. It is very clear that it is NOT a choice for many.

You are like a broken record. You keep on repeating the same lies without even reading my responses. I think that you are a women coming from a country who represses women and you were repressed yourself and that is why hate and revenge has blinded you even to read my comments.

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

Goddess · July 17, 2018

21 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You are like a broken record. You keep on repeating the same lies without even reading my responses. I think that you are a women coming from a country who represses women and you were repressed yourself and that is why hate and revenge has blinded you even to read my comments.

Reputable Islamic scholars all agree that constant covering of women, whether in burkas or hijabs, is NOT an Islamic requirement.

ISIS is the one wants all women covered at all times. Extremists want women covered at all times.

Whose ideology do you support?

I do not support ISIS and extremist's ideology. I do not support anyone who supports and wants to promote their ideology. End.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 17, 2018

14 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Reputable Islamic scholars all agree that constant covering of women, whether in burkas or hijabs, is NOT an Islamic requirement.

ISIS is the one wants all women covered at all times. Extremists want women covered at all times.

Whose ideology do you support?

I do not support ISIS and extremist's ideology. I do not support anyone who supports and wants to promote their ideology. End.

Reputable islamic scholars? Is this a joke? You mean those who believe in invasion and sword right?

Which disease do you wish for. Plague or Cholera? I guess cholera is less painful right?

Remember one thing. If you force women who choose to wear hijab out of personal belief to become hijabless then you are as bad as those people who forced you to wear hijab in the past. They both equaly go against individual's freedom and women's rights to choose.

Edited July 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015